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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Michigan Charter Boat Association
Press Release
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VHS Disease is found in perch
Lake Michigan finding raises alarm for fishery
By PAUL A. SMITH
[email protected]
Posted: June 14, 2008
The deadly fish disease viral hemorrhagic septicemia has been found in Lake Michigan yellow perch, heightening concerns about the plight of the popular native fish and the vulnerability of the Wisconsin sport fishery in general. Great Lakes
"It's not good news, but it's not unexpected," said Randy Schumacher, regional fisheries supervisor in Milwaukee for the Department of Natural Resources. "The real priority now is keeping the virus from getting transferred to inland lakes."
The finding comes a week after VHS was detected in round gobies found dead on beaches in South Milwaukee, the first such finding in southern Lake Michigan. Another in a string of invasive species and diseases transferred into the region from Europe and Asia, VHS causes blood vessels to weaken and hemorrhage, often but not always killing the fish. It is not a threat to human health, according to the DNR.
The disease was first discovered in the Great Lakes in 2005 and has caused large fish kills in New York waters, including thousands of spotted muskies in the St. Lawrence River and walleyes in Conesus Lake, Schumacher said. VHS was detected in Wisconsin waters last year, first in freshwater drum in Lake Winnebago and later in brown trout in Lake Michigan waters near Algoma.
The disease is known to affect more than 30 species of fish, including chinook salmon and rainbow trout. The World Organization of Animal Health has categorized VHS as a transmissible disease with the potential for profound socio-economic consequences.
The spread of VHS casts more uncertainty over the future of the $2.3 billion Wisconsin sport fishery.
"It's really a shame," said Ted Lind of Milwaukee, president of the Wisconsin Council of Sport Fishing Organizations. "What can you do now? All we can do is wait and see how bad the fish are hit."
The latest finding comes days before Monday's opening of the yellow perch sport fishing season on Lake Michigan. The VHS-positive perch were collected June 5 as part of the annual spawning assessment conducted off Milwaukee by the DNR.
The lake's yellow perch population has begun to stabilize after a collapse in the late 1980s and early 1990s that resulted in a 90% to 95% reduction of the popular commercial and sport fish, according to DNR estimates. The commercial fishery was closed in 1996, and sport limits have been drastically cut to protect the remaining perch.
"There goes the farm," said Eric Skindzelewski of Milwaukee, president of Lakeshore Fisherman Sports Club, in reaction to the latest VHS finding. "This is the only recreation we've got, and if the perch go down more, it will be a tragedy."
Citing a decrease in prey fish, biologists have also been concerned about the condition of trout and salmon populations in the lake. Stocking of chinook salmon was reduced in recent years to better balance the predator fish to available prey.
But the average weight of chinook salmon has continued to fall, leading many to wonder if VHS will be the straw that breaks the back of struggling populations of perch and salmon.
Schumacher said it was difficult to predict the impact on Lake Michigan fish.
"Sometimes (VHS) has resulted in massive fish kills, and sometimes it hasn't," he said. "Some fish develop immunity to the virus, so we hope that our populations will be able to withstand it."
What's clear is that the negative effect of the disease will be multiplied if it reaches inland waters and takes a toll on muskies, walleyes and other popular fish. The DNR passed regulations last year that prohibit the transfer of fish between waters in Wisconsin, the most likely means of spreading VHS.
Schumacher said VHS posed no threat to humans and that anglers could continue to fish and eat their catch. Many fish with the virus show no physical sign; others have red blotches and bulging eyes.
However, as always, the DNR advises state residents to not eat fish found dead or decomposing or that appear sick, regardless of cause. Decomposing fish might attract other bacteria harmful to people.
Schumacher said the department would continue to test fish as part of ongoing assessments. But the biggest job, he said, was continuing to educate the public and preventing spread of the disease to inland waters.
"The ball is now in the court of the angler and boater on Lake Michigan to not transfer fish or water inland," said Schumacher, recalling the spread of zebra mussels. "It's illegal to take fish from one lake to another, and it would be a terrible thing to do."
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Michigan Charter Boat Association
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| Here goes the panic button. I would like to know, though, who eats decomposing fish?
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Location: Rhinelander | The disease is what it is. Some think it's not a big deal. I disagree, so does the scientific community, and it's spreading and showing up across the Great Lakes as it was predicted to. Hopefully the overall impact will be minimal, but that doesn't mean we all should stick our heads in a hole and not pay attention to where the disease is found and what fish have been impacted, or ignore efforts to minimize the spread to inland waters.. |
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| Sorry but I disagree.....the scientific community is far from agreement on this also. There are many people that see this in a different light. It does not surprise me there were fish found with the virus, just like there are fish found with other viruses...it will always be around, but there are other bodies of water that had VHS detected in the past and it has not re-surfaced. To have articles alway portraying a big dooms day scenario is also putting some heads in the sand. This article is based around the Milwaukee area and they are concerned about the perch in that area, that in no way means it will devastate the entire Lake Michigan perch population...in fact if anyone is willing to open their eyes and look at the past 60 years on this virus they will see there has never been a VHS outbreak that has devastated a wild fish population anywhere in the world. Fishermen and boaters were not the culprits for the virus reaching Winnebago. |
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| OK Redneck maybe its not the scientific community but it is definately the economic community and anyone that participates in the great sport we call fishing! The plague worried people hundreds of years ago, SARS was more recent as well as many other "diseases/viruses". They had huge economic impacts around the world. I don't disagree with you but am concerned that your take on this is trying to belittle it for those of us that enjoy our sport. All we want to do is spread the word so that everyone can do their best to help prevent this from getting any worse, so if your not going to join us in the fight of educating others please refrain from making light of the situation.
Good Luck
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| Tyee,
I am in no way making light of VHS, what I am doing is keeping reality and history in the subject. The VHS subject has never been about the economic impacts to fishing (unless people complained about the bait fish), it has alway been people yelling the sky is falling and our fish will disapear. (As for SARS, the only reason that had any economic impact is because the governments spent money for something that didn't amount to much, again) I'm not sure why you think I may be one that doesn't like the sport, in fact I fish quite a bit. What bothers me and many others like me is the fact that people are making statments about VHS that just are not true. How can you possibly educate anyone about the subject when you will not accept the facts of history concerning VHS? I ask you...name any lake, river or ocean anywhere in the world that VHS had a long term, devastating impact on any fish population. There are none, and there are places in this world that have had VHS much, much longer than we have.
How can anyone declare themseves to educate anyone when ignoring the the facts on how VHS has acted in the wild for the past 60 years? |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Redneck.
I wish I had your bla'zaa attitude about things, especially if I ever get cancer. And I will continue to post about (good or bad) every single thing I see or read about invasive species that keep coming into our Great Lakes via both Great lakes and foreign freighters ballast water. And continue to pass on info that makes and keeps people informed, aware and even mad concerning this giant roulette wheel we keep spinning with each new ocean delivery to fresh water. You look like a fairly young man in your avatar picture. Being young once myslef I remember that (I'll never die and things will take care of themselves attitude). Here's a few long term reminders below for your viewing pleasure. Notice how the Ballast Water numbers of really environmentally harmful invasive's per each year, gets to be more and more in the last 20 or so. Everybody is intitled to their own opinions of this topic and the many other percieved or real threats to our Great Lakes. I tend to error on the side of science and safety. 
1924 Sphaerium corneum fingernail clam Mollusk Eurasia Lake Ontario drainage Shipping, Ballast Water
1925 Marsilea quadrifolia European water clover Plant Eurasia Lake Ontario drainage Release, deliberate
1926 Enteromorpha intestinalis green alga Benthic Alga Atlantic NA Lake Ontario Release, unintentional
1927 Acentropus niveus aquatic moth Other Invertebrate Eurasia St Lawrence R, Montreal Release, unintentional
1928 Noturus insignis margined madtom Fish Atlantic NA Lake Ontario drainage Canals
1928 Lepomis microlophus redear sunfish Fish southern U.S. Lake Michigan drainage Release, deliberate
1929 Lepomis humilis orange spotted sunfish Fish Mississippi R. Lake Erie drainage Canals
1930 Nymphoides peltata yellow floating heart Plant Eurasia Lake Erie drainage Release, unintentional
1931 Cipangopaludina chinensis malleata Oriental mystery snail Mollusk Asia Niagara River Aquarium release
1932 Najas minor minor naiad Plant Eurasia Lake Erie drainage Release, deliberate
1933 Oncorhynchus kisutch coho salmon Fish Pacific Lake Erie Release, deliberate
1933 Craspedacusta sowerbyi freshwater jellyfish Other Invertebrate Asia Lake Erie drainage Release, unintentional
1934 Lophopodella carteri bryozoan Other Invertebrate Asia Lake Erie Canals
1935 Cabomba caroliniana fanwort Plant Southern U.S. Lake Michigan drainage Aquarium release
1936 Sparganium glomeratum bur reed Plant Eurasia Lake Superior Unknown
1938 Actinocyclus normanii fo. subsalsa diatom Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1938 Diatoma ehrenbergii diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1938 Stephanodiscus binderanus diatom Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1939 Misgurnus anguillicaudatus Oriental weatherfish Fish Asia Lake Huron drainage Release, unintentional
1940 Cipangopaludina japonica Oriental mystery snail Mollusk Asia Lake Erie Release, deliberate
1940 Glyceria maxima reed sweet-grass Plant Eurasia Lake Ontario Release, deliberate
1943 Tanysphyrus lemnae aquatic weevil Other Invertebrate Eurasia Unknown Unknown
1946 Cyclotella pseudostelligera diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1946 Stephanodiscus subtilis diatom Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1950 Oncorhynchus nerka kokanee Fish Pacific NA Lake Ontario drainage Release, deliberate
1950 Cirsium palustre marsh thistle Plant Eurasia Lake Superior Unknown
1950 Potamothrix bedoti oligochaete Annelid Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Unknown
1950 Pluchea odorata var. succulenta salt-marsh fleabane Plant Atlantic NA Lake Ontario drainage Unknown
1950 Phenacobius mirabilis suckermouth minnow Fish Mississippi R. Lake Erie drainage Canals
1950 Morone americana white perch Fish Atlantic NA Lake Ontario Canals
1951 Branchiura sowerbyi oligochaete Annelid Asia Lake Michigan drainage Release, unintentional
1951 Carex acutiformis swamp sedge Plant Eurasia Lake Michigan drainage Unknown
1952 Myriophyllum spicatum Eurasian watermilfoil Plant Eurasia Lake Erie Aquarium release
1952 Potamothrix moldaviensis oligochaete Annelid Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Unknown
1956 Cordylophora caspia hydroid Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake Erie Release, unintentional
1956 Oncorhynchus gorbuscha pink salmon Fish Pacific NA Lake Superior Release, unintentional
1958 Eurytemora affinis calanoid copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Widespread Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1959 Pisidium supinum humpback pea clam Mollusk Europe Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1959 Lasmigona subviridis mussel Mollusk Atlantic NA Lake Ontario drainage Canals
1959 Trapa natans water chestnut Plant Eurasia Lake Ontario drainage Aquarium release
1960 Polygonum caespitosum var. longisetum Bristly Lady's Thumb Plant E. Asia Lake Erie drainage Unknown
1960 Glugea hertwigi protozoan Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Erie Release, unintentional
1962 Thalassiosira weissflogii diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Detroit River Shipping, Ballast Water
1962 Lepisosteus platostomus shortnose gar Fish Mississippi R. Lake Michigan drainage Canals
1963 Skeletonema potamos diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Erie drainage Shipping, Ballast Water
1964 Cyclotella atomus diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1964 Cyclotella cryptica diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1964 Cyclotella woltereki diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1964 Chroodactylon ramosum red alga Benthic Alga Atlantic Ocean Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1964 Bangia atropurpurea red alga Benthic Alga Atlantic NA Lake Erie Shipping
1965 Potamothrix vejdovskyi oligochaete Annelid Ponto-Caspian Lake Erie Shipping? Ballast Water?
1966 Epilobium parviflorum small flowered hairy willow herb Plant Eurasia Lake Michigan drainage Unknown
1966 Eubosmina coregoni waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Eurasia Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1967 Skistodiaptomus pallidus calanoid copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Mississippi R. Lake Ontario Release, unintentional
1968 Dugesia polychroa flatworm Other Invertebrate Europe Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1968 Myxobolus (Myxosoma) cerebralis salmonid whirling disease Other Invertebrate Unknown Lake Erie drainage Release, unintentional
1969 Solidago sempervirens seaside goldenrod Plant Atlantic NA Lake Michigan Release, unintentional
1971 Enneacanthus gloriosus bluespotted sunfish Fish Atlantic NA Lake Ontario drainage Aquarium release
1972 Cyclops strenuus copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Hudson Bay Lake Superior Canals (water diversion)
1972 Hydrocharis morsus-ranae European frogbit Plant Eurasia Lake Ontario Release, unintentional
1973 Skeletonema subsalsum diatom Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1973 Thalassiosira guillardii diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1973 Thalassiosira pseudonana diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Erie drainage Shipping, Ballast Water
1973 Nitocra hibernica harpacticoid copepod Benthic Crustacean Eurasia Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1975 Renibacterium (Corynebacterium) salmoninarum Bacterial Kidney Disease Bacteria Unknown L. Superior Release, unintentional
1975 Lotus corniculatus birdsfoot trefoil Plant Eurasia Lake Superior Release, deliberate
1975 Sphacelaria fluviatilis brown alga Benthic Alga Asia Lake Michigan drainage Aquarium release
1975 Sphacelaria lacustris brown alga Benthic Alga Unknown Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1975 Hymenomonas roseola cocco-lithophorid alga Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Huron Shipping, Ballast Water
1978 Biddulphia laevis diatom Phytoplankton Widespread Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1978 Chaetoceros hohnii diatom Phytoplankton Unknown Lake Huron Shipping, Ballast Water
1978 Thalassiosira lacustris diatom Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1979 Notropis buchanani ghost shiner Fish Mississippi R. Lake St. Clair drainage Bait release
1979 Enteromorpha prolifera green alga Benthic Alga Atlantic NA Lake St. Clair drainage Unknown
1980 Corbicula fluminea Asiatic clam Mollusk E. Asia Lake Erie Aquarium release
1980 Ripistes parasita oligochaete Annelid Eurasia Lake Huron Shipping, Ballast Water
1980 Daphnia galeata galeata waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Eurasia Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1982 Lupinus polyphyllus lupine Plant Eurasia Lake Superior Release, unintentional
1982 Bythotrephes longimanus spiny waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Eurasia Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1983 Nitellopsis obtusa green alga Phytoplankton Eurasia Lake St. Clair Shipping, Ballast Water
1983 Gianius (Phallodrilus) aquaedulcis oligochaete Annelid Europe Niagara River Shipping, Ballast Water
1985 Salmincola lotae copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Eurasia Lake Superior Unknown
1986 Gymnocephalus cernuus Eurasian ruffe Fish Ponto-Caspian Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1986 Apeltes quadracus fourspine stickleback Fish Atlantic NA Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1988 Thalassiosira baltica diatom Phytoplankton Europe Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1988 Argulus japonicus parasitic copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Asia Lake Michigan Aquarium release
1988 Bosmina maritima waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Eurasia Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1988 Dreissena polymorpha zebra mussel Mollusk Ponto-Caspian Lake St. Clair Shipping, Ballast Water
1989 Dreissena bugensis quagga mussel Mollusk Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1989 Scardinius erythrophthalmus rudd Fish Eurasia Lake Ontario Bait release
1990 Neogobius melanostomus round goby Fish Ponto-Caspian St. Clair River Shipping, Ballast Water
1990 Proterorhinus marmoratus tubenose goby Fish Ponto-Caspian St. Clair River Shipping, Ballast Water
1991 Potamopyrgus antipodarum New Zealand mud snail Mollusk Australasia Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Acanthostomum sp. digenean fluke Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Ichthyocotylurus pileatus digenean fluke Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Neascus brevicaudatus digenean fluke Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Trypanosoma acerinae flagellate Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Dactylogyrus amphibothrium monogenetic fluke Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1992 Dactylogyrus hemiamphibothrium monogenetic fluke Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Superior Shipping, Ballast Water
1994 Echinogammarus ischnus amphipod Benthic Crustacean Ponto-Caspian Detroit River/Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1994 Scolex pleuronectis cestode Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake St. Clair Shipping, Ballast Water
1994 Neoergasilus japonicus copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Eastern Asia St. Clair River Unknown
1994 Megacyclops viridis cyclopoid copepod Zooplankton (crustacean) Europe Lake Huron Unknown
1994 Sphaeromyxa sevastopoli mixosporidian Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake St. Clair Shipping, Ballast Water
1995 Alosa aestivalis blueback herring Fish Atlantic NA Lake Ontario Canals
1996 Heteropsyllus nr. nunni harpacticoid copepod Benthic Crustacean Atlantic NA? Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1997 Acineta nitocrae suctorian Other Invertebrate Eurasia Lake Erie Shipping, Ballast Water
1998 Cercopagis pengoi fish-hook waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
1998 Schizopera borutzkyi harpacticoid copepod Benthic Crustacean Ponto-Caspian Lake Michigan Shipping, Ballast Water
1999 Nitocra incerta harpacticoid copepod Benthic Crustacean Ponto-Caspian Detroit River Shipping, Ballast Water
1999 Daphnia lumholtzi waterflea Zooplankton (crustacean) Africa, Australasia Lake Erie Release, unintentional
2000 Heterosporis sp. microsporidian Other Invertebrate Unknown Lake Ontario Unknown
2001 Gammarus tigrinus amphipod Benthic Crustacean Atlantic NA L. Superior (L. Huron in 2002) Shipping, Ballast Water
2001 Rhabdovirus carpio SVC spring viraemia of carp Virus Eurasia Lake Michigan drainage Aquarium release
2001 Psammonobiotus communis testate amoeba Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
2002 Cylindrospermopsis raciborskii cyanobacterium Phytoplankton South America? Lake Michigan drainage Unknown
2002 Ranavirus sp. Largemouth Bass Virus Virus unknown Lake Michigan drainage Release, unintentional
2002 Piscirickettsia cf. salmonis muskie pox Other Invertebrate unknown Lake St. Clair Unknown
2002 Psammonobiotus linearis testate amoeba Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
2002 Psammonobiotus dziwnowi testate amoeba Other Invertebrate Ponto-Caspian? Lake Ontario Shipping, Ballast Water
2003 Enteromorpha flexuosa green alga Benthic Alga Widespread Lake Michigan drainage Shipping
2005 Novirhabdovirus sp. VHS Virus Atlantic NA? Lake Ontario Shipping? Ballast Water?
2006 Hemimysis anomala bloody-red mysid Benthic Crustacean Ponto-Caspian Lake Michigan drainage Shipping, Ballast Water
Edited by walleye express 6/18/2008 12:14 PM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Did VHS kill any of the perch it was found in? Did VHS kill all of those gobies that died, or was it simply detected in the dead fish?
My opinion mirrors that of Redneck. We had fish kills before VHS and we'll continue to have fish kills now that VHS has arrived. We should take reasonable precautions to avoid spreading the disease, but the fears being expressed (worrying about the entire 2.3 billion dollar sport fishery or using the fear of VHS to change fishing regulation on some bodies of water) do not match the reality of the virus as we know it.
Again, for the cheap seats, I am not suggesting we shouldn't take reasonable measures to slow the spread, only that we make sure we don't preach a doom and gloom scenario for the bodies of water that have it. If we don't send the right message with VHS, it could damage the credibility of the potential thread and make it more difficult to convince everyone to follow the simply steps we need to control it. |
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| Well Walleye,
I'm 42, not exactly young, but you do have quite a list.....now can there be a reference point to any thing on the list that is directly blamed for a long term, devastating effect on fish populations? |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Dan -
Re-read what Redneck posted. Where in that did he say invasives are no big deal and we should do nothing to control them??? |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | I'm sorry if my post answer came off as, or he or you got the impression I seen his post as (no big deal). And I'll say it right now, that some of the invasives in my list may have actually aided in the overall scheme of things concerning the great fishery we're enjoying now on Saginaw Bay. But none on it except Lampreys and VHS are actual fish killers. I guess I just felt slightly offended being put on the same shelf as Chicken Little, when I'm more genuinely concerned about our fisheries then most. But like Steve said. It is what it is.
Edited by walleye express 6/18/2008 12:28 PM
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Location: Berlin | Brad for President!! |
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi | I'm with Dan to error on caution. I think I, and many people around the Detroit River and western Erie basin area, have seen the effects of VHS firsthand better than any other anglers in the U.S.. A few years ago, it was muskie floating down the River from VHS. Many in the 40"+ range. I mean MANY!!!! Haven't caught one single muskie since! Not to say that they're gone. There's still plenty, but it had a significant and noticeable impact on the fishery. Next were the shad. You might say no big deal, they're shad. BUT, without the large numbers of shad available the following two falls, the walleye found other areas to feed and it hasn't been the same since. I can comment on the drum VHS kill because that was mostly in the Ohio area. Then, there was a smaller shad kill this year. Who knows what that's going to do.
One thing you posted that seems to be a positive thing is that it does seem like fish around here develop an immunity after the initial kill, with the exception of the shad. I thought for sure I'd see thousands of walleye and bass floating this spring after all the fish caught last year with obvious VHS. Thankfully, I was wrong. But, as noted with the shad, it can still happen. The shad kills were a few years apart, so the walleye and bass aren't in the clear yet.
To shrug it off and error on the side of reckless, is assnine, careless, and plain lazy! As I pointed out, even non-devastating outbreaks do have an affect on the the fishery and tourism. You don't catch fish, you're probably not coming back. Though it may not kill all the fish, the effects can be devastating to a fragile system or tourism industry. |
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| As we discussed last time RT and I disagreed on this subject, ask Captain Larry Jones and others fishing the eastern Great Lakes what VHS did to the Muskie population after the last outbreak. His guide business is history in the fall where they were fishing huge Muskies...why? because VHS killed the majority of those fish. As long as there is history to that effect, I'll worry about our inland Muskie lakes and rivers...alot. |
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| Brad, you are right. I never stated invasive were not a problem. In fact I deal with the invasive problem a lot in the cartoons. I have issues with statements on any fish kill such as "There goes the farm" and "The ball is now in the court of the angler and boater" These fish kills have not been constant nor have they been devastating. This VHS scare has gotten to the point that Buffalo Lake had a winter kill of fish but all the residents think the DNR is lying and believe it was VHS...even though the DNR has confirmed winter kill. Caution is fine, but too much can lead to unnecessary panic. |
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi | RedNeckTech - 6/18/2008 8:57 PM
Brad, you are right. I never stated invasive were not a problem. In fact I deal with the invasive problem a lot in the cartoons. I have issues with statements on any fish kill such as "There goes the farm" and "The ball is now in the court of the angler and boater" These fish kills have not been constant nor have they been devastating. This VHS scare has gotten to the point that Buffalo Lake had a winter kill of fish but all the residents think the DNR is lying and believe it was VHS...even though the DNR has confirmed winter kill. Caution is fine, but too much can lead to unnecessary panic.
So, as long as it's not "devestating", then anglers should take no precautions? Or no precautions should be legally imposed? If 1/3-1/2 of a man's charter's or local bait shop income is wiped out, that's not devastating? Seems alot more devastating than making you take 10 minutes to wash your livewell out!!! The ball IS in the anglers court. It got here by freighters. Common sense tells you that you won't see a freighter on a 1000 acre lake. Soooooooo, PLEASE tell me how VHS will most likely be transfered there!??? And please tell me how your right to not take precautions outweighs the impact to guides, charters, resorts, baitshops, and local economies? Seems a bit selfish, naive and careless to me. |
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| Oh give me a break Terroreyes. In the thread that ran a while ago about the new bait laws I was right there pointing out that it was going to put the smaller bait shops out of business! Some said that was the price we must pay to save the fish! "The ball is in the angler's court" comment basically means that if it shows up somewhere else its the angler's or boater's fault. For crying out loud, there are other ways for it to show up including restocking a lake with a batch of minnows that have a few VHS infected ones that didn't show up on the test. Where did I ever say I was not taking precautions? Is this the argument that you use by putting words in mouths you don't agree with?
Don't lecture me about the business side of it, I have been on the industry side from the beginning! I was talking about having a devastating effect on the fish population.
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi | It's not the laws that will put the bait shops out of business, that has already been proven by adaptation of the rules by the sates and their actual survival. It's the lack of tourism. I don't dispute your acknowledgement of the problem. It's your take action after the consequences approach that I don't agree with. Your point of view seems to be that if it doesn't wipe out the entire population, then there's no reason for action.
Edited by terroreyes 6/18/2008 9:17 PM
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| My point of view is not "if it doesn't wipe out the entire population, then there's no reason for action" My point of view is VHS has never, in 60 years, had any devastating, long term affect on any body of water so stop presenting it like it could. When this virus first came out it was nick-named the "Fish Ebola" which conjured up memories of the Monkey Ebola virus (which never amounted to anything either). If the Wisconsin DNR would have handled VHS like the Texas DNR handled LMBV I would have no problem. But to constantly, in every article, having a phrase like "VHS could kill a large amount and have a devastating effect on many species of fish" or "the population of Wisconsin fish" when VHS never has since it's discovery, is getting old much less it is not what the last 60 years of history shows. The tourism is hampened much more by the gas prices and over all economy than VHS scare.
Edited by RedNeckTech 6/18/2008 9:48 PM
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| Let's also keep in mind that there was no perch kill, some tested positive. And to quote the offical DNR website about this:
"DNR Fisheries Director Mike Staggs says that no immediate impact from VHS is expected to be seen in yellow perch populations. While VHS can kill fish of all ages, the biggest impact appears to be on very young fish. As a result, it could take several years before any effects show up in the population in decreased reproduction, if they show up at all." |
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| A quick comment about if all fish in a kill can be blamed on VHS. Here is an example of VHS being blamed for fish kills when the evidence does not totally support the claim. It is from the ScienceDaily (Jul. 25, 2007) issue and it’s about the muskie kill on the St. Lawrence River.
“Researchers at ESF’s Thousand Islands Biological Station on Governor’s Island in the St. Lawrence River believe that viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS), a highly contagious illness that has already killed thousands of fish in the river, is the culprit.” - There was no testing, they just assume it was VHS
“In 2005, the researchers came across 25 muskellunge carcasses. In 2006, they found about a dozen. That year, all the dead fish were large females, and tests later showed that several of them died from VHS. One of them was nearly 59 inches long.”
This goes to show that a complete kill can be blamed on VHS when only several out of the dozen dead muskie even test positive for the virus.
Edited by RedNeckTech 6/18/2008 10:51 PM
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| Hmm , I wonder how else it could spread besides boaters. Maybe if 15 inches of rain falls and floods are everywhere. At this point it's pretty much a given that VHS could be in every lake from Winnebago to the Gulf of Mexico considering the flood waters. Our WI laws that were enacted to prevent it's spread were made useless by mother-nature. |
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| Good point CT. |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | wow , good points all the way around... its evident to me the folks on both sides care a great deal about this issue , it seems that we should support preventitive measures as we all care about or fish populations, there is no argument that people can affect things in nature but at the same time there are many folks that think that the human race or certian folks seem to think we have the abuility to control. history tells us that there are a lot of things that have been around forever, call them by all the names you want over time.. in the last 20 years we have gotten good at identifying these new viruses but are they new or are we just looking threw a better microscope.. one thing is for sure,, the people who think we can stop global warming(or cooling) or stop hurricanes or volcaino's frome erupting are nuts, maybe stopping fish viruses are in that catigory also.. on the other hand when our soldiers got shot in the leg in the old days they either died of infection or we chopped off there whole leg and they servived . things change , some (stop playing GOD) or thinking we can solve everything others feal we can solve anything in time... what borders on rediculus now may be possible in 50 or 100 years.. at the same time viruses are evolving and growing imune to our medications. insects adapt and grow imune to our pestisides.,,( i see a never ending battle with this one... ) i also know people and animals with a certiain dna structure servive and there young do to,, they evolve.. im not saying i believe in fish evolving and growing legs and becomming a human,, im saying in history there is plenty of evidence that supports some populations are less affected than others. this is no different... something could pop up that would wipe out half of the world human population. yet half may servive ,,, to think we can stop the unknown is rediculus but then again the black plague hasent been spotted in the US for a wile.. who knows. either way it wont be solved over night or possibly never.. it will be everywhere and maybe thats not a bad thing, vhs i mean, the more fish exposed , the more that servive (not just die) the ones that servive are the important ones will be around and there young will be born stronger and possibly servive the next VBSB or whatever they decide to name it...... |
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Location: Berlin | Bradley, did you switch to Decaf?? lol, just messing with ya:) |
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