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| http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=766864 I had no idea this was happening. Dominic |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | Yes it is happening, rather, has happened. We may be way past the beginning of the end of Great lakes fishing. People please read this if you like what you are enjoying now in Lake Michigan. We all need to take a side in preserving what we have here. It don't take much more than demanding from your representatives in Washington, that we will not stand for this resource being descimated like this. Don't sit by and wait for someone else to fix it. It is getting late. |
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| This same thing has been happening periodically on Lake Winnebago and Little Lake Butte Des Morts for decades. My family had a cottage on Winnebago in the 70's and this happened a few times. The only thing different is millionaires complaining it is happening on their beach front and lowering the value of their property. |
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| Good article. |
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| Waterfront property not selling in Door County has nothing to do with algae, it DOES have alot to do with outrageous prices. More and more of the people who used to buy up there are now buying and building on the west shore of the bay because property can be bought at a fraction of the cost. There is jo doubt things are changing in Lake Michigan but all the gloom and doom that comes from the MJS is a bit overblown. Look at Lake Ontario and Erie for example, all these problem started there first and they seem to be doing just fine. A lake can only hold a certain amount of biomass as stated in the article but what they don't say is how Salmon and trout numbers are at an alltime high, they also figure in the biomass equation. Something definately needs to be done about the invasive species however the lake and the fish will find a way to adapt. |
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| Good point Wishn, Lake Erie's small mouth bass population increased in numbers and size from Zebra mussels and Lake St. Claire's perch population exploded and they credit zebra mussels. The fisheries are going no where. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Very good article. Keep spreading the news and keep in mind that this particular kind of algae has also been found to be liver toxic if ingested at certain stages of its decomposition. So having the kids anywhere near it isn't a good idea. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I'll state the obvious so it does not get overlooked.  $300 MILLION: Estimated annual economic loss from the 57 exotic species known to have been delivered to the lake by overseas vessels. This is according to preliminary results from a Notre Dame University study.
$55 MILLION: By contrast, the economic benefit, according to a different study, of allowing the polluting ocean ships into the system. This is the saving over transporting the goods by truck, rail and barge.
We have discussed this many times and many ways on this forum. I vote for shutting them down (ocean ships) until they figure out the solution. Look what we have had to do as boaters to prevent the spread of VHS. Make the shipping industry do more or stop bringing ocean ships in.
Hooray for the paper for running the series. Here is installment 2 http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=767292 |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | http://video.ap.org/v/Legacy.aspx?g=a43ec537-2bc3-4a22-99a8-66ff851...
Video of Lake Michigan Bottom at various locations. |
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| I was up at Bailley's Harbor this weekend. The black sludge from those dead algae looks like sewage and it was 6 inches deep and about 6 feet up on shore.. You cannot let your dogs go on the beach. I've been through the algae blooms on bago and they are nothing like this stuff. I would not buy shoreline property on the east shore of door cty no matter what the price. This stuff is toxic. They mention the potential for botulism and the reduction in prey fish biomass. Explains the drop in salmon size. This is starting to show up in the bay also. This quagga mussel makes the zebra look like nothing. Read the article and see the impact on Lake Huron. Why worry about tangible problems that we can touch and smell when you have theoretical problems like global warming and CO2 to spend money on? |
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| Thanks Dennis, It's not Obvious to many......and lets not forget that "Mr. Obvious" frequents this site often so these things need to be said over and over again and again. It is not something that should be swept under the carpet.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Not to steal this threads thunder but I have just heard some other news that we can debate the importance of.
Seems there is a 6 mile wide meteorite heading towards earth at 37,000 miles per hour and will impact us this 4th of July sometime during the evening, which may or may not spoil or enhance the fireworks show you may be attending, depending of course on your view of how important this event really is. Personally, I say it's to late in the game now to worry about it.
And of course, there are good and bad sides to every perceived disaster. The bad side of course is 78% of all life on earth will be killed ,dead or dying in the first few days of the impact. The good side is that the other 22% will be O. K. after 2 years or more of living on each others flesh, fumbling around in the dark wearing breathing masks and goggles, before mother nature (as she always has) smooth's things over and we can get back to some serious walleye fishing. This is because history teaches us that we've had these meteor impacts before in our earths ancient history and it never wiped out all life before. So I'm good with the odds, unless of course I'm in that 78%.  
Disclaimer: Remembering the history of what happened after the "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast by Orson Wells, this post of course is not true. But I thought this fictional post expressed quit well some of the attitudes on the subject.
Edited by walleye express 6/30/2008 3:29 PM
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | HEY Dan? you know how well the walleyes bite before the front? big storm comming ? i would think a 6 mile wide rock heading toward the earth at 37,000 miles per hour may just give us the best possible bite one could ever experiance in a lifetime.. ya think? i know where ill be moments before... God speed my freind. Major Tom to Chicken little at ground control.... the crawlering may slow down a week or so before as the crawlers will no doubt go deeeeeeeep ! you may wanna stock up.
Edited by bradley894 6/30/2008 4:15 PM
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| Keep in mind this very exact thing happened on Lake Michigan throughout the 60's and 70's and it was too much phosphate running into the lake. There are other factors that can create this also including lower water levels, warmer water, and phosphate run-off from farms and over-flowage from waste water treatment plants (which happened on record levels last year). The mussels are just one theory. |
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Location: Westland, Mich. | just sent a copy of this to the alaska senator the voted against the clean water act and threw a wrench into the whole works.
hey techie, you keep your head in the sand. this will all go away in 5-6 hundred years or so.
Edited by JAKE 7/3/2008 2:36 PM
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Just read where VHS was found at Northpoint Harbor near Waukegan Illinois. Its a very popular salmon stop. See attached link to todays Dale Bowman article in the Chicago Sun-Times.
www.suntimes.com/sports/outdoors/1037823,CST-NWS-fish03.article
Edited by Mark Komo 7/3/2008 3:23 PM
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| Now if we can just VHS to migrate to Bears fans..... Oh noooo..... Purple Skeeter |
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| Jake
I didn't know that stating there are other factors that could be contributing to this or refering to fact that this was a problem in the 60' and 70's is putting my head in the sand. This is not some new found problem for the lake, it has happened before. The reason it is happening is because the lake is cleaner and less polluted. |
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| Interesting comment from the article:
"We are learning a lot about this disease," Conlin said. "The sky isn't falling like they thought in 2005.''
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Location: Westland, Mich. |
this ISN'T the problem from 50 years ago and it's not even remotely the same. passing legislation to stop new invasives from getting in the water is just a start.
in the meantime they are already there, they are doing great damage and they are changing the ecosystem in ways we don't understand. the cumulative effects could be devastating. just think if you were given arsenic, one drop in every cup of coffee you drank. hey, in a week you may never notice it but, in a month you will be feeling something, in six months you'll be on you back and in a year you'll be dead. these things are accumulating and the results wont be pretty. |
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| The article states that the cladophora is a by-product of the zebra mussels which is false. Cladophora is a natural occurring algae that is found through-out the great lakes and other inland lakes, it has always been here. They are not even sure why it is blooming so heavy again, zebra mussels are just one of six factors that help the bloom, not the only one. Low water, warmer temperatures, phosphate in the water, water clarity and wind direction all are a factor on why this is happening. Wisconsin gets the blooms because the west shore of the lake is mostly rocky, Michigan's side is mostly sand. The winds across the lake are primarily from the east to the west. The slicks are from the dead algae....everything dies. There is more for the algae to attach to because of the lower water and good water clarity it can be found up to 30' down. They just tested phosphate last year and the levels are more than adequate to allow the algae to bloom and survive. The only two thing the mussels have to do with this is they filter the water to the point it is crystal clear and they produce fertilizer just like we do. Down side is some people have to deal with the mats on their shore, the up side is cladophora is a source of food for the smaller fish. The lake is cleaner and less polluted, that is a very good thing.
The zebra mussels are native to Russia, mainly the Caspian Sea. That body of water has whitefish, sturgeon, salmon, perch, and shad just to name a few. It is also home to over 400,000 seals that are land locked there. There has to be lots of fish to feed 400,000 seals. The Caspian Sea is teeming with life and it is ground zero for the zebra mussel. Our fisheries will not perish because of the zebra mussel.
This is from the DNR 2005
Nuisance Algae (Cladophora) Public Forum
February 18, 2005
Lakeshore Technical College
Cleveland, WI
Welcome
Chuck Ledin, Director, Office of Great Lakes
Welcome and thank you for your interest. We are here because a few concerned
residents of Manitowoc decided to make a trip to Marinette a few years ago to dump a
pile of rotting Cladophora in front of Mike Friis and me. At the same time they
expressed some frustration about the loss of beach usage and lack of attention by state
government to their concerns. That energy and concern prompted much of the work you
will hear about today.
As a life long resident of Wisconsin, I would like to start today by sharing about 50 plus
years of personal observations of Lake Michigan.
• Lake Michigan is a fabulous body of water and it is part of a unique aquatic system.
At one time, sturgeon were present in huge numbers and commercial fishery activities
thrived all along the coast. But the last 60 years brought great change.
• I grew up in the 50’s in when no one went near the water of Lake Michigan. The
rivers feeding the lake were full of pollutants to the extent that the sight and smell
were offensive. But even then, I do remember a trip on the old car ferry to Michigan
and marveled at the crystal clear water when we were out of site of any shoreline.
• But the 50’s were the heyday for sea lampreys which devastated the fishery for lake
trout following the opening of the ST. Lawrence seaway . However, there were still
perch to be caught..
• Various studies were done in the 60’s and 70’s resulting in a cry for control of
phosphorus from sewage treatment plants. Wisconsin began issuing correction orders
and some progress was made. The international joint commission began to call for
phosphorus controls at all large treatment plants.
• Following passage of the Clean Water Act and resultant development of federal and
state regulatory, management and funding programs, we began to see differences in
our waterways. With phosphorus control, nuisance algae was greatly reduced. The
beaches became a great place to play. However, instead of algae, the next plague
followed when our beaches became fouled with dead alewives.
• To combat this problem, the Great Lakes states utilized a biological approach by
planting pacific ocean trout and salmon to feed on the alewives. This approach was
successful beyond anyone’s predictions and a wonderful trophy fishery was created.
Unfortunately the trophy status was later marred by the growing knowledge that these
fish accumulated polychlorinated biphenyls and other pollutants in the fatty tissues to
the extent that consumption advisories were needed.
• Then we found the salmon suffering from kidney disease and some food chain shifts
from alewives to lake herring or chubs or other species. But other stocking efforts led
to other fishing successes like walleyes in Green Bay.
• .Meanwhile, although we have tried for years to restore reproducing lake trout
through stocking and careful harvest management, that goal eluded us.
• While the alewives pretty much disappeared, new problems developed. Now Zebra
mussels washed ashore preventing anyone from going barefoot on the beaches and
decomposing mussels perhaps encouraged bird scavengers to spend more time
patrolling the swimming beaches and through their feces cause pathogen water
quality problems.
• Then the yellow perch populations crashed. And to further our problems, Cladophora
came back and in some areas with a vengeance.
• I have been at DNR for 32 years and the one thing I know about Lake Michigan is we
have a limited understanding of how the system works. Some of this is due to the
size of the lake and very long response time, which is a part of every change or new
stress on the system. A second problem is that the only thing constant about the lake
is that it is in constant change influenced by a variety of factors, some of which we
know little about like new exotic species. We always end up reacting to a change
with little ability to predict future conditions. We have long term information, which
shows a long cycle of water level changes differing by as much as 5.5 feet. We are
only recently beginning to have a better understanding of the importance of this cycle
to coastal wetlands. We have rarely had the tools or information for these long term
changes or cycles, which extend beyond the length of our lifetimes. Thirty two years
is barely a blink for this system. With a retention time of 99 years, changes may take
a lifetime to notice or more problematically more than a lifetime to correct. From this
one thing is clear to me. Managing today’s issues in Lake Michigan is about long
term campaigns with expectations for results based on patience.
Today you will get a chance to hear about some really excellent team efforts to better
understand what is happening in the lake. The good part is we are getting smarter. The
bad part is there may not be a silver bullet. So I would like to end with a few last
thoughts:
1. When the Clean Water Act passed, people said the goals were unrealistic and
unachievable. Eleven years and five billion dollars of investment made Wisconsin
the first state in the nation to meet the national deadlines. We can successfully deal
with Cladophora but our expectations must be realistic in the context of management
efforts which merely influence rather that direct this huge system—in short it will
take time. But we can have hope.
2. We do not fully understand phosphorus responses in aquatic systems to the point
where we can say with certainty that level X will solve all the problems. We do know
however, that phosphorus fertilizers have greatly increased and that some of that
phosphorus makes its way to our waters and I can say with certainty that less
phosphorus will result in improved water quality over time
So with that I hope you find this session today useful and hope you will take this
opportunity to ask questions and provide reactions to the information which will be
presented. Thanks again for your interest. |
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Location: Westland, Mich. | thanks for all the third hand information. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jake, lighten up man. some of you guys are taking this personal. Remember, there is one thing that will always be the constant, and that is change. |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | Red, What impact do you think the salinity of the Caspian Sea has to do with the thriving fish population? Just curious. |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | Hey Denny,for thousands of people and their families who make a living from the Great Lakes, it is personnal. Just like that nice waterway you have in front you. I'm know you have a passion for it. But, a change could come. It may have started already. |
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