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Member
Posts: 11
| Hey All,
I'm thinking of upgrading my poorly equipped electronics.
The Hummingbird side imaging looks cool but Lowrance has some great products too. I've also heard that while the side imaging "looks cool", it's not necessarily that practical or applicable day-in and day-out.
Of course, there's also Raymarine which seems to offer some good products too.
I'm planning on getting one unit for the front of the boat and probably coupled with a Motorguide trolling motor and then have a 2nd unit for the console.
Fishfinding, GPS & lake chips... any opinions on the higher-end electronics that are out there?
Thanks,
TC |
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Member
Posts: 149
Location: Appleton, WI | Hold off for a little bit, lowrance has came out with a new high def series called HDS, some boards are ranting and raving others sound a bit optmistic, but if you want cutting edge tecnology I'd check one out after they are on the store shelves. |
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Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I too would second the choice to wait. WalleyeFirst heard a ton of good stuff about these new Lowrance HDS models towards the end of the professional walleye tournament season and would highly suggest waiting to see these. The new units will be in store shelves in January.
Here is the link to the new Lowrance HDS units:
http://www.lowrance.com/en/Products/Marine/HDS-High-Definition-Syst...
Edited by TJ DeVoe 12/6/2008 3:55 PM
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| You also should consider that after about 3 years Lowrance probably won't support the unit. They have nice units but lousy support IMO.
When I bought my two units in 04 I found out last spring they would not repair them anymore. All they will do is give a slight discount on new units. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Will anyone else repair a unit that is out of warranty? Can you get a Hummingbird that is 5 years old repaired? How about a RayMarine? Or a Garmin? This is not just a Lowrance thing.
Look, the retail lifespan of these products is about two years, and then they come up with new models. Planned obsolescense, but it's a fact. |
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Member
Posts: 921
Location: Manitowoc, WI | FYI! I just sent in my Lowrance LCX-110c to get the sonar module replaced. $300. Still cheaper than a new one. My radio also died and they are sending me a new one for $80. |
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| I have had Lowrance but I got a Hummingbird 797 side image. I use lowrance for gps and depth finder. I fish rivers and the SI is great for that. It also works great for following conturs finding structure. This fall I was on river low water and with SI I could find the channel and could till which side of boat had deeper water.
I ran the Hum graf and Low graf at same time and I could see more fish with Lowrance in regular graf mode on Hum.
My setup is 1 Lowrance on GPS and 1 depth finder and Hummingbird on side image.
The new HD lowrance will run on a different operating system than older ones. Lowrance has always build in for updates and have updates to fix problems.
Brian
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| a lot of people make a good living repairing stuff that is beyond warranty, boats, atvs, lawn care equip, cars, etc etc. Maybe Lowrance and the rest should ponder that before they too need a bail out. Better yet maybe someone with the technical expertise could make a fortune doing repairs! There an idea for someone laid off to create a new job market in GPS/fishfiner repair. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| That would be a great idea. But I think there are too many obstacles to doing this. Electrical schematics would be hard to come by. What about propriatary parts? Where do you get them? And the equipment necessary to seal the cases properly, and with the correct gas inside to prevent condensation? Where do you come by that? Without the support of Lowrance, Hummingbird, and the rest, it's not likely to happen.
It's easy to criticize a company for not standing behind it's product when it's out of warranty, and you have no idea of all that is involved. Yep, it's easy to take your TV or car in for repairs. Last I knew, they don't seal either from the outside elements, with a gas, and manuals and repair parts are readily available. I'm not sure of Lowrance's market share, but I bet it's probably close to 50%. And unless Hummingbird, Garmin, and the others offer repair on obsolete units, I don't see Lowrance losing share because they don't.
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| Planned obsolescense = Planning future production based on producing products to knowingly fail. Yeah that makes sense in todays markets, how'd that work out for the "Big 3", typical american manufacturer arrogance. Well hopefully some chinaman or mexican will soon realize this market is open and produce some competitive units so that I can be first to buy one, and then Lowrance et al can kiss my arse.
Oh and I don't believe my X18 has to run everyday of the year rain or shine, year after year and yet my car had a 5 year warranty and about a gazillion more parts, and can get repaired. (if you want to compare apples and oranges) |
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Posts: 3899
| Knowingly fail? And you think the auto companies make vehicles they know will fail? On purpose? No sense in continuing this discussion with you. |
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Member
Posts: 921
Location: Manitowoc, WI | Shep, I believe he may be referring to the expected life span of certain parts. In my industry, when talking predictive maintenance, there are quite a few things we expext to fail at certain stages of operational life. Nothing lasts forever!
Edited by Horshak 1/2/2009 11:40 AM
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Posts: 3899
| Expected lifespan is way different than planned obsolesnce, and what he is accusing American manufactures of doing. Funny how the Fusion is one of the top rated cars now, along with the new Malibu. Ford Trucks have lead the industry for 30+ years, and everyone wants to heap praise on the Toyotas and the Nissans. They never even built a full size truck until 2 years ago.
My brother has an american made generator. Works great, and has for many years. I bought one of his chinaman generators this fall for deer hunting, The first day I used it, the recoil starter failed. Fell apart, and I can't get a new one, and the retailer no longer carrys the piece of china crap.
He says American manufacturers can kiss his arse. I say mark the spot, he's all arse.
Edited by Shep 1/2/2009 2:21 PM
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| Pretty sad Shep that all you can resort to is name calling and simple debate is beyond your capacity. Since you obviously cannot accept anything negative about Lowrance I agree it's futile to add anything more here about them.
On a positive note about Hummingbird: I sent an e-mail to Hummingbird about serviceability and expected product support. They responded that they try to support all GPS/Fishfinders for about 7 years. I will be considering a change to their units as that blows away Lowrance as I far as my experience w/them. |
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Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Actually CT, I think Shep is right. Lowrance is constantly introducing new units and other units are going out of production. I don't see how you can possible think they should keep servicing units 4 or 5 years old when that technology is practically obsolete.
If Lowrance serviced all there units from say, the last five years or longer, that would probably cost them more in the long run than it's worth. Hummingbird's support of seven years sounds great, but until the last couple years since they introduced the SI units, they haven't had much for new technology. I don't think your lack of business support to Lowrance will even effect them, just maybe your loss if anything. Did I mention the new HDS units? There going to be awesome. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Name calling? Where?
Look, I'm considering adding the Side Imaging Hummingbird to my arsenal this year, so I don't get your point about me and Lowrance. You said Hummingbird said they try to service the older units. Great, until they send the letter stating they can't because of part unavailability. I work in the electronics field, so I kinda have some insight as to why things are this way. Many times, there is a part that a manufacture cannot purchase in single units anymore. They are not going to buy 1,000 or more, just to repair one item that is end of commercialization. Lowrance isn't, nor is Hummingbird. I don't care what Customer Service says. |
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| I appreciate your response, I don't know what it would really take to support units longer, obviously there is money to be made servicing them and I think it would be profitable. I don't believe many fisherman can continue to lay out up to $2000.00 every 3/4 years for new upper level units considering todays economies. Personally I think only 3 years of support on my unit was way to little, there is a break point in there somewhere that would be reasonable say maybe 5/6 years.
Your right my support for a different brand won't break them, however my sentiment is not limited to just me and loyalty to a certain brand is a long gone tradition.
Doesn't really matter, I threw it out for some debate and got in return what usually happens on here, a couple good thoughts and other useless singleminded jabs. In the end it still helped me get through a boring day at the office.
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| Shep, let me give you an example of a company in the electronics field that does care: Motorola. I work in law enforcement and we send in radios that are pushing 12-15 years old and we still get repairs. They simply charge a flat fee for repair and the chips/panels/circuits or whatever are replaced. Probably much bigger company but the fact remains they do service electronic devices for a long long time. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| One example of a radio that probably has common, non propriatary components in it. I'll give you one. Ever try to get a 10 year old TV serviced? You can just about buy a new one for what they cost to repair. And if you need a tube? forget it. And that's for a Sony. One of those great foreign companies you speak so highly of.
Think what you will, but it's a fact of life these days. More and more, we live in a commodity world, where things don't get repaired, they get replaced. Very, very few manufacturers do component level repairs anymore.
Here's another example. Try to send in a 3 year old Dell for repair. Not going to happen. They can sell you a new one cheaper.
How about another. Your out of warranty Toyota has an ECM go bad. You think they're going to repair that? Nope. You're going to buy a replacement ECM for big bucks. Doesn't mean they don't care about you, the consumer. Just means they aren smart business people.
I stand by what I'm saying. I'd still like to know what name I called you.
I didn't think so. |
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| "I say mark the spot, he's all arse" Pretty clear you called ma an ass, but even cutting and pasting your own words I'm sure you'll want to argue that too.
No problem I get called worse every day, just made my point.
As to the main issue expressed my opinion and now am done! good day. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| You're right, I did say that. But then, you asked for the American manufacturers to kiss it. As an employee of an American manufacturer, I only asked you to mark the spot.
You don't like Lowrance, that's fine. Buy something else, if you think you'll have better luck. I hope you end up with a product that does everything you want it to, and don't have any problems with it. |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Shep has some valid points, he being a Lowrance guy and I like the birds, although obsolence is a part of life in the electronics industry how you address it with your customers is of the utmost importance.
As a supplier to the Industrial electronics industry, my companies products are designed for a 10 year life cycle or more. Depending on how many are sold can also be a factor in this complicated design process. Once a determination is made that there is a better technology or better way to sell more product, plans are put in place to obsolete things. Which could include many things such as increasing the price of parts (common to do this as many companies don't make all the components in said product and parts become unavailable).
My manufacturers DO make our own components so if we feel the need to obsolete something we may increase the price gradually to get customers into newer better performing product. But will continue to support it for many many years. any increase is often only for the actual costs of the materials, As we are in charge of our own destiny per say, or in very slim cases if a product has an inherent problem in design/functionality flaw, we then try to do anything we can to get customers into a more current product, often it would include new product at reduced prices, lower service or installation rates, rebates on new future products. If there is a significant amount of the product in the field it is invaluable to support it for as many as 20-30 years, which we still do.
As for the consumer retail industry, you will see many of them not as "manufacturers" but as "assemblers" which leaves them at the mercy of their suppliers. hence not able to support their products as well as they should.
I don't know that much about Lowrance or their market share by models or their new owners, so I can't add to their viability or technical advantage. I use Humminbirds, ie Johnson Outdoors and I can tell you that they have treated me well and support the product for quite some time. Weather or not either company builds "all" the components is beyond me but I have been fully satisfied with all of my communications regarding my birds and Minnkotas' that I have had over the years. Which has been very very very few times.......actually never for a faulty part or outdated unit but rather for additional accessories.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 1/6/2009 2:03 PM
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| Thanks Tyee, very informational. I am going to look very seriously at a new "bird" come spring. |
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Member
Posts: 3899
| Come clean now Tyee. Exactly how long have you been running Hummingbird? Since Troy got on their ProSatff, right. A couple of years isn't it?
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| Shep, you need to lay off this thread. Everyone will not have the same opinions you have, it's ok there are differing opinions. |
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