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| I am not seeing it on AIM's sight. Am I just missing it? |
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| I don't see it either, a buddy who was at the launch said he saw most of the boats head right into University Bay. |
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| Maybe Zollar's post on WC scared them from doing it. What a putz. |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | It's up now. Pretty cool. They are in University.
Edited by bagz 7/4/2009 9:01 AM
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Location: Rhinelander | Had to let us get to the trailer...everything is blocked off for the Festival.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Anyone want to talk about Zollars comments? I wont post over there but would love to talk to our group about it.
He has a point, to an extent. I can see where in the past no one knew where to go on the bay of green bay and guys like us had the run of the lake. There would be no one out there unless a tourney was in town and it was like shooting fish in a barrell. There have been alot of changes since the knolls won the mwc and then the flw highlighted the bay with giiiiinormous catches. For years the NE wisc. fisherman was scared of the bay because there daddys taught them to be. Its a nasty waterway. BUT, now, they get out there and find thats its not. Now, we tell them where we are fishing. "Them meat hogs fr9om Bago' will come here and clean out the bay". I can almost hear his exact words.
Please, dont get me wrong, I like the GPS Tracking. I think that this is what we need and want from our sport. The SSShhhh factor of the past has to flip flop. Most spots and patterns on the bay have went from 6 of us knowing, to now it's me and 200 of my best friends knowing. There are still some secrets that will not be uttered until it makes it financially right to use such secrets.
The DNR raised the limit from 3-5 and that makes it more attractive as well. I think you just need to teach guys that they do not have to keep everything they catch. Its ok to JUST GO FISHING.
Zollar, I know what you are trying to say, but it just doesn't hold water. The spots these guys are fishing or would have been fishing, if the cold front did not come in, are major community holes anyhow. Get over yourself thinking that you are the only one who knows, or the idea that they are telling all my secret spots to everyone.
For some of my friends to take a crack at me, I will say that all the guides that have popped up over the last 5 years on the bay, well, you guys teach more people than AIM ever will.
Off the soap box, keep it real AIM, The sport needs this!! |
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| Like the tourney coverage with the vidoes - pre fish, interviews, on the water, etc, - gps tracking pretty cool as well. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tom's reaction is sad. In one breath he says that they are destroying the fishery by showing where the fish are and in another post he says that no one is watching. How can you have it both ways? 
Tournament fishermen are criticized because they often do not give enough information about how they caught fish, yet when we have a format like AIM's that tells all they get blasted for telling too much. Sounds like a loose-loose situation in trying to appease everyone.
As a guide, I welcome all clients to bring a gps unit into the boat to record locations. I see little effect on the practice except that I often have to go to different spot to fish when guiding because past clients are using the spot. Makes me a better angler and has no guarantee that others will catch fish there. You know as well as the rest of us that it is one thing to know location and another to know correct techniques to put fish in the boat. Reminds me of a story about a client that I took to an area where we caught a limit. The next year when we fished together I returned to that same area (forgot I took him there the previous year). The client told me that he fished that area all year and never caught fish there again. We did catch fish on that spot and I had to politely explain that the area was a spring spot only and he needed to fish other areas during different seasons.
We have been fighting these wars for years. Local anglers who have a basic knowledge of locations get upset because others find out about a spot or two when a tournament rolls into town. Are you really that concerned about the fishery or are you upset that others now know about spots you fish?
The AIM participants are putting every fish back into the system alive. It'll be local anglers like you who will do the damage (if any) after they leave. The local anglers are the ones that need to be educated and reminded to use CPR more often.
Kind of reminds me when we did the FLW Tour on Green Bay a few years ago. The secret of those deep fish off of a well known community hole was shown to all of the locals. You and I both know that a slaughter took place by locals keeping the big girls after the FLW left (here's where you can chime in and say, "see I told you"). I do not remember you or anyone else getting on-line and screaming how the FLW destroyed the fishery. How is this any different? It's not! It'll be the locals who do the damage not the tournament if they (locals) do not use inteligent catch and release practices.
With knowledge comes responsibility. Don't prohibit knowledge because a few will use it incorrectly. Educate those who have a tendacy to beat there chests and keep every big fish. |
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| Just 6 of you, Stacker? But then you didn't know me back then, I guess. And yes, there were some secret spots. While I didn't fish it alot, we did get up here, and we always found good fish, especially in spring at night pulling stick baits.
I think one of the biggest influences were the RCL Championships in 2000/2001. Guys made unprecedented long runs, were rewarded with big fish, and more guys started using spinner rigs. The FLW event that Pat Neu won probablt didn't provide as much new knowledge as the League event the week before. It was spots from that tourney that got most of the top weights in the tour event.
Look, good anglers aren't stupid. They take what they learn from others, and apply it to their own program. Specific locations aren't the issue, but the depth, presentation, speed, and little tricks get applied to similar spots all over the place. Whoever thought a winning basket coulod come from 2' in May? Yet, the next year, there were a buch of guys fishing shallower than they ever had before, and not just the location from the previous year.
To say that this GPS tracking, when it's working, will destroy the Bay as we know it, is wrong. We've seen the effects of meat hawgs keeping big fish long before this. Every year for the past 5 or 6, I've seen guys at the launch with 10 fish in the livewell, all over 27+ inches. When asked why they keep those big fish, they just say because that's a lot of meat. When you try to explain that those big fish don't taste as good as a 15" fish from Bago, you just get a blank stare. And I bet most of those freezered fish eventually get tossed in the garbage, too. |
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Location: Port Washington, wisconsin | They could put the whole field on the screen and it wouldn't matter to me. I can go there and catch fish and have fun. I will not pretend to think I can retire catching those fish in compettion either. But, not one of them will ever go my table. The taste to me is a dang shame. Good job AIM. You got my attention. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | shep, 2 of the 6 were blind, but we figured they knew about it so we included them. Quit being so nit picky. LOLOL Every group of the pioneers had secrets.
I want to clarify something. DONT PUT ALL THE BLAME ON NON TOURNEY GUYS!! The bay's large fish population has decreased, BUT IT WAS NOT JUST BECAUSE OF MEAT FISHERMAN. Everybody played there part. The tourney guys killed lots of the big fish. Just as many in my opinion. However, the bay and its big fish are fickle and can only take so many smacks before it goes down. I think It could have sustained with one or the other but not both. |
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| Kudos to Steve for telling it like it is. That website has turned into a complete mockery of a great place that it SHOULD have been. Oh, well, opportunity lost.
This Zoller character is a real piece of work. Can't wait to follow his success on his circuits.
The fact is that most of the fish coming in are not "trophy" fish, they middle of the road size, and lest we forget, while the GPS tells you where the FIVE boats are running, it doesn't tell you where the big ones are caught.
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | What I don't understand here is we're looking to "blame" someone for something. What are we saying? Are we saying there aren't as many fish in the Bay of Green Bay as there used to be? Are we saying that there aren't as many big fish now as there used to be?
Both quotes, in my opinion, are pure excuse making for guys who don't fish here a lot and aren't thinking outside the box in regards to fish location and how they adjust to weather, water clarity, prevailing forage, pressure, commercial fishing, and any other factors. The Bay of Green Bay is chocked FULL of fish!!! There are more fish and more big fish now than ever. More fish die of old age out here than the ones that die to tournament mortality or the steel of a fillet knife. This tournament and others like it will do little to influence the number of fish in the Bay. If we didn't go through a solid week of declining water temperatures the bite would have been fantastic with limit catches averaging around 6-7 lbs. Instead we saw a group of pros dissect the waters in a scrounge bite and come up with a great showing.
I've spent many hours this year and last year on the Bay and have had MANY days of 5 fish/30-38 lb days. I've also had my share of 1-2 fish days. That is just the nature of this big water. Take a close look at the stats over the last 3-5 years for tourneys and see how seldom it is that someone puts together big baskets in back to back days. The wind's influence on this fishery is incredible, as it drives water temperatures and causes fish and forage to relocate by the hour. That is what makes this whole thing about getting upset with AIM showing GPS tracking hilarious. Those fish are there now and gone within hours once conditions change. I say enjoy the fishery and share what you've learned.
Edited by jerry 7/4/2009 8:13 PM
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Location: Badgerland | WITH ALL DUE RESPECT JERRY. quote "What I don't understand here is we're looking to "blame" someone for something. What are we saying? Are we saying there aren't as many fish in the Bay of Green Bay as there used to be? Are we saying that there aren't as many big fish now as there used to be?
Both quotes, in my opinion, are pure excuse making for guys who don't fish here a lot and aren't thinking outside the box in regards to fish location and how they adjust to weather, water clarity, prevailing forage, pressure, commercial fishing, and any other factors. The Bay of Green Bay is chocked FULL of fish!!! There are more fish and more big fish now than ever. More fish die of old age out here than the ones that die to tournament mortality or the steel of a fillet knife."
You my friend are the first I've heard say such a thing in years, quite the opposite of local belief, from U bay to BBDN. Pat says it best here: http://www.aimfishing.com/video.asp?id=1660 |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I did not come up with this data 620, but it backs up what I say. It was sent to me by someone who agrees with what I say. Give it a read.
...Just some simple tournament stats...
I asked this question regarding large fish on the Bay after last years MWC when it seemed as though the weights were down for that event(weather played a large role in that event as it did for AIM this year), as the year went on big bags came in for other tournaments so I presume all is well...anyway some number crunching for thought...I didn't figure these numbers down to the ounce but I think they are pretty close at least within a pound....Averaging the daily bag from the top 5 anglers(Teams) in 4 separate events at approximately the same time of year.....'05 MWC - 29+ lbs
'06 FLW Tour(4 day event) -25-1/2 lbs, '07 MWC-27 lbs, '09 FLW League 27 lbs...if you throw out the monster catch from the '05 MWC winners the avg. daily bag was closer to 28 lbs for the next best 5. Then take a look at the August Tournament for the '08 FLW League and you are at a 32 lb. avg for the top 5 guys. 27+ lbs avg for the late June '08 FLW League Those numbers are to close for me to play armchair biologist and blame anyone for anything as it seems like the Bay still has some very nice fish swimming around...Now that I have done this I really should find something more worth while to do LOL!
I'm out.....I have better things to do with my time......have a great day!! JR
Edited by jerry 7/5/2009 4:40 PM
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Location: Badgerland | Good read. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | jerry - 7/5/2009 4:39 PM
I did not come up with this data 620, but it backs up what I say. It was sent to me by someone who agrees with what I say. Give it a read.
...Just some simple tournament stats...
I asked this question regarding large fish on the Bay after last years MWC when it seemed as though the weights were down for that event(weather played a large role in that event as it did for AIM this year), as the year went on big bags came in for other tournaments so I presume all is well...anyway some number crunching for thought...I didn't figure these numbers down to the ounce but I think they are pretty close at least within a pound....Averaging the daily bag from the top 5 anglers(Teams) in 4 separate events at approximately the same time of year.....'05 MWC - 29+ lbs
'06 FLW Tour(4 day event) -25-1/2 lbs, '07 MWC-27 lbs, '09 FLW League 27 lbs...if you throw out the monster catch from the '05 MWC winners the avg. daily bag was closer to 28 lbs for the next best 5. Then take a look at the August Tournament for the '08 FLW League and you are at a 32 lb. avg for the top 5 guys. 27+ lbs avg for the late June '08 FLW League Those numbers are to close for me to play armchair biologist and blame anyone for anything as it seems like the Bay still has some very nice fish swimming around...Now that I have done this I really should find something more worth while to do LOL!
I'm out.....I have better things to do with my time......have a great day!! JR
Jerry, with the respect you have dually earned over the years, and I mean that, I will have to disagree with you regarding the very large fish that we once found very abundant in the bay. I will say, that I think there are more fish now than then. Just are not the size. I want the statistician to go back to the MWC in 96-97 and bring all the data from WWA, MWS, and any others that were playing then. It may show more light. The numbers showen are post MWC KNOLLS and FLW Tour.
Sorry to have to call you out but why would you get into a discussion only to end your stement with "I'm out, I have better things to do."
Edited by stacker 7/6/2009 10:06 AM
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| I can't wait to read the reply to that one! Heck, I only questioned a certain bias towards the FLW over thewre, and got accused of launching a personal attack!
I did look at the WC "live feed." It was subpar when compared side by side with the AIM Live Feed. Why would anyone watch that when the could watch the real deal on AIM's sight.
I was at the weigh in on Saturday. I have to admit, it was as exciting as any live-and-dead-fish-brought-to-the-scales weigh in I've been at. Now, the bite being tough because of the weather kind of took some of the shine off, but overall, I like the MC being one of the anglers. Someone who actually knows what is happening on the water, and knows what questions to ask. Could the questions be a little more hardball? Yes, but more information on these guys day was forthcoming than at other event weigh ins.
Awesome job AIM. You can criticize the field size, and I'll say that the fields will increase next year. I hope they cap it at 100, and then have a qualification requirement. It's my belief that not eveyone fishing on the Pro side should be, just because they can afford the entry fee.
The tracker was a fun benfit, and no way is it going to let every Joe watching it go out there and catch all the fish. Just a silly thought, at best.
And I do stick wiith my opinion that meat hunters have hurt the fishery in the last several years. They've taken way more big fish out of Green Bay than have been killed by the tourneys. I think the best days were before the 5 day limit change, and the knowledge gleaned from tourneys. Never used to see the launches as full as they are now on a daily basis. Used to be, on any given day of the week, you could launch @ 7:00 AM, and never have to struggle to find a parking spot. Now, you have to be there before 6:00 AM, or you off to the next launch, or in the overflow lot.
Yes, there still a on of fish in the system. But lots of those are smaller fish, and not so many pigs. I'd never caught a 15 inch fish outside the river, before this year. This year it's common. Still manage to get a nice fish on most trips, but the days of multiple pigs are not as common. Still a great fishery, IMO. Just not as great as it was. |
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| After hearing about a post on that other walleye site i started to chuckle a little cuz I knew it would stir up some major controversy. Now knowing Mr. Zollar at a personal level and speaking with him he knows he went overboard on his first post and didn't intend to, but mearly wanted people to realize what could happen or has happened to the resource out on Green Bay. Lets face it, those big fish are no longer easy to come by out on the bay. This tournament wasn't a factor with the gps coords because of the poor weather but if some contestants were rolling on those big fish of the bay on some of the precious small areas......do we want everyone whos watching knowing where that spot is??? Me personally.....No I don't want people knowing where that area is. FACT:::IT WILL GET FISHED HARD IN THE FUTURE!! Now will it kill 100,000 walleyes.....Yikes that one might be a exaggeration!!  Ha ha thats a lot of fish!
When I first moved to Green Bay 15 years ago it was like something I've never seen before. Pulling in these dinosaurs was a blast!! I do understand mother nature and the fact that things will take care of itself. There is a lot of upside to the system with all the small fish out there right now. Its dominated by 18-24 inch fish and on the bright side of things its great to see all those cookie cutter 14 to 15 inchers out there.
So heres the bottom line question to all of this and we will all have our thoughts from all the publicity, tournaments, lake-link advertisement, guides, gps coordinates, the increase in bag limit, will the resource sustain itself??? Time will tell but look what happened to the perch population.....it got over exploited! My personaly opionion the lower bay will always be good and the central bay...well the damage already has been done!!
As for Zollars comments it brings up great debate for everyone to think about!! Green Bay is everyones to enjoy! ITS A GREAT FISHERY LETS DO THE RIGHT THINGS TO KEEP IT THAT WAY!!
Well thats it back out to the bay to find those winning fish for the weekend!! Good luck all!!
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | Has anyone else thought that there may have been a couple of good year classes to have all of those 18-24" fish? I think there are year class cycles and will use Winnebago as an example.
I've heard from many people, especially on this site, that they are catching more 20+" fish on Winnebago this year than ever before. Did new anglers stop comming over and keeping all of "YOUR" fish? I think not.
Please explain how a system that gets hit as hard as Bago by tournaments can have more big fish than before, but a system as big as Green Bay which holds less tournaments is effected that much more? Are there less meat hunters on Bago then there were 10 years ago?
Mother nature does work in cycles, and Green Bay is not excluded from this. Anglers can have an impact on this, but I don't think it's to the extent that people are trying to sell.
As a side note, stop in at the local businesses around Green Bay and ask them how they'd like it if you could put a stop to all the information and advertising on the internet. |
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| Did Worrall delete his own post? Or did jerry dump it?!! It was a good read, either way. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Just food for thought now that whatchamacallit rookie brought up biology of all things when speaking to fishery management.....
The big walleyes--meaing the 27" -30" plus walleyes are NOT the best spawners. By removing them or seeing their numbers go down, will NOT end up in disaster for any walleye population. In fact, the 19" to 25"ers are the most successful spawners. Yes, the big ones lay/hold more eggs but they also have a very slim hatching/success rate per egg compared to the middle age/size fish.
A lake can sustain just so many POUNDS of fish. With a BIG fish dominated population, you will have less fish in numbers and less year classes. Less BIG fish will result in MORE fish in numbers and a more diverse population of year classes.
In the long run, the latter is best for most. |
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| GNWC is right on. All this speculation on quality vs. qty and CRR vs CPR and meat hunters vs cpr anything over 20"....ITS HOGWASH! Ma Nature gives us the opportunity to manage a resource and we do this in many ways, If GPS tracking were to have an impact our states officials will manage accordingly. Technology has always ment growth and this is no different....Year classes move from one home one year to another the next and are the target of tourney anglers not just any ole walleye and AIM is setting the stage for people to fianally realize that, once they buy into it they too will start to buy into the CRR or CPR mentality and a limit of eaters may change to remember when we ate these things. I remember when Musky were the best eating fish there was.................
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Rhinelander | I deleted it, mostly because I was sure those I wanted to see it...did. |
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| I just spit out my coffee!
See you at the FLW weigh ins! |
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