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| Can't believe no one has commented on this yet. Posession limit of 6 for the Merc. this year. Why? Don't get me wrong, this is an awesome tournament that I have fished for 20+ years and is run by the best people in the business, but why 6 in the livewell and you are done? I am an honest tournament angler, always have been and will abide by this new rule. Just don't understand it. Don't even want to think about the number of teams that will break this rule. If I am incorrect on the intepretation of this rule, I apologize. |
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| Is that really a bad thing for 6 fish in the livewell? I'm fishing the weekend before you and I've see conversation threads about cull tags. Now I've never fished an event where cull tags were issued so I'll be curious.
But, MWC/NTC then Merc, then Otter St and finally a couple weeks later the FLW Walleye Tour. I've had a conversation w/ my partner who's fishing the MWC and then Merc w/ his black motor partner and he said there's plenty of fish in the system.
All I can tell you is the Winnebago system is going to get fished hard for a long time by the best walleye fishermen around.
I feel for ya, and hope the MWC/NTC has 10 fish limit (I seriously doubt it!). Be it what ever, have a good event and enjoy being in the boat!!!
Dave |
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| Why is this a bad thing? It makes the tournament more competitive it will make you think should I put this fish in the livewell or let it go. I wish every tourny was run this way and enforced top 5 teams should have lie detectors to see if they culled or not! |
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| Bill - 3/1/2010 7:35 PM Why is this a bad thing? It makes the tournament more competitive it will make you think should I put this fish in the livewell or let it go. I wish every tourny was run this way and enforced top 5 teams should have lie detectors to see if they culled or not! This is not a bad thing if every team followed the rules. Unfortunately, there will be cheating, and that is a bad thing. |
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| This is a bad thing. Thumper is right about the cheating and if the DNR says we can have 10 in the livewell between two anglers, why not.
Look at what AIM is doing, letting the angler catch fish. These tournaments do not hurt the walleye population in the system and never will. At least Otter Street is letting us keep 8. |
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Location: Rhinelander | The AIM CRR process would be interesting to implement for the Merc National. It would take a couple serious adjustments as to what goes on in that trailer during weigh in, though.
I have a question...if 6 is what the livewell limit is, and it was 10, what was the mechanism that stopped folks from culling illegally when ten were in the well? |
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| I don't see it as a bad thing either. My guess is they are doing it because of the long wait before you way in with your fish. The less fish in you livewell, maybe the better chance they have of survival. I've always followed the rules and do realize that some people won't. That doesn't bother me because in my experience most of them usually get theirs at some point along the way anyways. I just worry about what I do. Looking forward to the tournament again this year. |
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| Obviously the higher mortality of a couple recent Merc Nats has had an impact on the decision to go to 6 fish livewell limit. And that's not a bad thing. The people who cheat are going to cheat no matter, so that is a moot point.
Going to a CRR format would eliminate this mortatlity issue all together. It's just a bad situation keeping those fish in the livewell in that lagoon that long. Then again, the fishery is healthy, and if some fish die, and are given to pantry's, that's OK by me, too. The mortality from previous Merc Nationals has not hurt the fishery it appears.
I'll get off my fence now. hehehe |
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| but your so comfortable up there! it must be a picket fence!!! hehehehe
Oh and your right....less mortality! 50-75% mortality did not fair well with many!
Edited by tyee 3/2/2010 11:54 AM
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | tyee - 3/2/2010 11:53 AM
but your so comfortable up there! it must be a picket fence!!! hehehehe
Oh and your right....less mortality! 50-75% mortality did not fair well with many!
However, the many it did not fair well with have a 100% mortality rate in there boats. Maybe even 3 or 4 times a day 100% motality rate. |
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| Do you not understand the rule they are not saying you can only catch six fish. What they are saying is as soon as you catch a fish and put it in your livewell it counts as one of your six. You could go out and catch 40 walleyes in a day but you can only keep six out of the forty, the six you first put in your live well. Understand?  |
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Location: Rhinelander | Bill,
'Why six in the livewell and you are done'?
I think it's understood just fine. |
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| sworrall - 3/2/2010 1:31 PM
Bill,
'Why six in the livewell and you are done'?
I think it's understood just fine.
If it is understood just fine then what is all the complaining about? Look at the last comment Guest made about Aim letting the angler catch more fish. The rules at walleye weekend do not state how many fish you can catch it just says how many you can keep. What is all the fuss about? |
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| The fuss is because with only 6 allowed in the livewell, the honest anglers will have to decide whether to actually put a fish in the livewell. The people that culled when 10 were allowed? That'll just happen 4 fish earlier this year for those guys.
Edited by Shep 3/2/2010 7:45 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | Bill,
AIM uses CRR which allows any fish the angler releases to count. The Angler chooses the largest caught to count against the allowable total number of walleyes of the day. There IS no possession, so there is no culling regulation to worry about.
If the total one can livewell goes from 10 to 6, the decision making process shortens by 4 as to which to livewell and which to toss back.
But, you already knew that. |
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| Bill - 3/2/2010 7:30 PM sworrall - 3/2/2010 1:31 PM Bill, 'Why six in the livewell and you are done'? I think it's understood just fine. If it is understood just fine then what is all the complaining about? Look at the last comment Guest made about Aim letting the angler catch more fish. The rules at walleye weekend do not state how many fish you can catch it just says how many you can keep. What is all the fuss about? Bill- No one is complaining about the 6 fish limit. I am saying it is hard for the honest anglers to compete against the cheaters, and the 6 fish limit will make that desparity even greater. |
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| What years are you talking about high mortality rate? Merc National has never had a 50%-75% mortality rate. |
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| Congratulations to the MWC. They got this one right. Weigh your best 5, "following local Wisconsin regulations." That means 10 through the livewell. Thanks MWC. Can't wait for June. |
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| Guest, the earliest records I have are 2006 so lets look at that one. (10 fish limits brought to the scales.
see the chart to see that even then it was at 40% mortality and has not improved it has only gotten worse. (I am still looking for the other years but they have been posted here before) I believe last year was the worst yet. Otter changed their amounts last year which was a blessing to many and many are applauding Mercs change now!
BUT...has it effected moral or social views of the people or the companies vested in the industry?.........catch 10? catch 8? catch 5? catch 1? whats the difference? Just make sure you abide by the rules or DON'T PLAY THE GAME!...unless you adopt a 100% release system like AIM your sport will continue to be just a hobby.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 3/3/2010 4:53 PM
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | Tyee,
In all fairness... That chart is almost worthless. Carefully look at the middle, orange, number... "ASSUMED" is the word used. I have yet to see a valid scientific tournament mortality study (and I really wish that there was one out there). The Wisconsin DNR tournamment study was seriously flawed and contained "assumed" results. You cannot have an assumption as a major part of your scientific argument. No matter who publishes it. I would love to have two five pounders in my live well and then "assume" I would catch three 12lbers and therefore have a total weight of 46lbs recorded for my "score"... Also, the DNR has carefully studied Winnebago and has concluded that tournament (mortality/and non-mortality) fishing has no harmful effect on the population...just ask them. "Exploitation" (removed from all sources) is factored into the management equation every year. And, every year in the last 15-20 years (don't have the exact dates in front of me) they declare the population of walleye in the system to be healthy.
Edited by hgmeyer 3/3/2010 7:41 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | Let's look at this as it is...a reduction of the number of fish that will be livewelled and brought to shore and a predictable move most events in Wisconsin will eventually adopt by choice or by regulation. As such, mortality will be, by ratio at best, that much less.
The issue of culling isn't one of the number of fish allowed in the well, it's a matter of personal integrity. Each team should be subject to a polygraph, and most events have a provision for that or something like it.
There's nothing new about this discussion. The one major weakness of Team events held where culling isn't legal is the prospect that some may cull anyway, and the only thing I know of to discourage any activity of that sort is the promise of the use of a polygraph.
I'm not sure 6 is any worse or better than 10 to 'discourage' culling. If a team is disposed towards that activity, whether the livewell has 6 or 10, there you are. That said, the choices a Team has to make about which fish to livewell, and which to release, get's more 'interesting' as the number allowed shrinks.
So Bill has a point, what's the worry...it is what it is.
I think that the VAST majority fishes legally, MWC and Merc, etc. |
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| What Steve said.
The problem with the Merc and other team events is the cheaters. And the threat of polygrapgh is not there, except for the top placing teams or two. At the Merc, they pay down 50+ spots, and the cheaters do have an effect on those spots. So yes, I agrre, the threat should be for all teams to be poly's, but that would be cost prohibitive.
That said, if the Merc had 100% mortality, ie.,catch and kill, it wouldn't affect the fishery negatively. Public perception? Absolutely.
I think CRR is the obvious next step. Easy to implement, too. Require every boat to have a digital camera that accepts a memory card, and a standard bump stick. The Tournament will hand out fresh memory cards at boat check in the AM. Memory cards are cheap, and that shouldn't be an issue. Have a check box on the entry for a couple different memory card options. |
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| Steve, I concur! your absolutely right. AND I do not disagree with any of you, although HG, The post mortality numbers are accurate in the studies I have read on other species in warm water enviroments, yes the WI DNR study for Bass was flawed in some cases but that data wasn't used in their new calculations on released mortality figurers. In addition there has been an EXTENSIVE study in MN on post mortality from ordinary fishermen and I believe the percentage came out pretty close to that of which the WI DNR uses, I do not have those results, maybe someone can enlighten or correct me.
Either way tournament fishing does not have an impact on the fishing and we all agree. BUT the question is more towards ethics and the perception of the general public that we should be more concerned about don't ya think?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | tyee - 3/4/2010 3:53 PM
BUT the question is more towards ethics and the perception of the general public that we should be more concerned about don't ya think?
Good Luck
Tyee
I would like to hear a good argument from you Tyee to support this statement that you make. Lets get a good one going. |
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| Of the tournaments that allow the fewest fish in the live well for weigh in makes it too easy for the teams that aren't on consistent catches to slop out with a pair of big fish and be closer in the race than if it was the most fish in the livewell for weigh in.
Lawrence |
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