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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK Lets get it started again. In the past it has been the practice of many events to hold the list of contestants till the first morning of the event. Makes it very hard to be a fan, or for the fisherman, to have someone new become there fan. Its fun to argue about which program will prevail, trolling or live bait riggin. I lost that one last season hey mike? 15 days, that is what I am calling for. All events need to list there participants 15 days in advance of the first day of competition. It does not matter how many they have entered.
Oh, and for the nay sayers, remember that they all keep saying how we all need to pitch in during these hard times to keep the sport running. Building a fan base is what needs to happen and the fishermnan will come. |
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| That would be great for the present fans but it won't produce any new fan base. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | RedNeckTech - 3/23/2010 11:14 AM
That would be great for the present fans but it won't produce any new fan base.
OK How do you see it that way in your world. |
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| I am with Stacker on this |
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Location: Northern Illinois | MWC always has a running list from the day sign up starts.......maybe other events should do the same. |
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| In my world, that thought is backward. In order to bring in new fans you have to get the people to be fans of the sport first...then they develop a following to individual players. You cannot build the sport by trying to increase a new fan base for individuals without them being fans of the sport first.
Dale Ernhart fans did not become NASCAR fans, the NASCAR fans became Dale Ernhart fans...the sport comes first. More individual exposure only increases the fan base for that person from within the sport, it will not bring more people to the sport because of it.
Stop looking at things as a tournament fishermen if you want to attract people to the sport who are not already there. It is a tiny fraction of fishermen who even care about tournaments...work on giving them a reason to follow the sport then the individual fan bases will grow. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | The nascar analogy is interesting, even as outdated as it is. Earnhardt fans took the course you described and it work as a start, but kasey kahnes fans are drawn to him before the sport of nascar, why do you think that is? It is Because they are marketing the man, not the game. Refreshing faces endorsing american values products. There game is well established. Our game is well established as well. However, when you mention fishing, it simply has more participants than any other past time in the country. A base of customers allready in the loop. So, by taking the current angling base in the walleye belt then start tellin them about each and every angler, they will pick out and associate themselfs with that angler and his style. They will then in turn watch the guys they associate themselfs with and in turn follow there progress and the sport. Proven. PWT did that well. Increase participants at events? Yep, same guy who associates himself with the pro. He gets good and says, "Heck, I can do that" and joins in on the fun.
Edited by stacker 3/23/2010 2:52 PM
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| If I'm 18 years old and just starting to fish and hear the name Gary Roach will that mean something to me?
No, but if I'm into Walleye fishing then the name will mean something and perhaps I'll check him out.
Another example...............if there was no TV and you never played soccer. Could you pick Beckham out of a line up?
To me it's not a question of which came first. Without the sport there is no pro's and no fan base. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | So what if we took the guys who fish and are into walleye fishing primarily and told them about the pro's that are out there. Do you think they could associate themselfs with one of them?
By the way, how many guys you think there are that are primarily walleye fisherman?
You are right by the way, I dont know who beckham is, nor would you persuade me to watch the sport I dont care for and be a fan of him or anyone else.
Now does that make sense. Promote from within as there are many within. |
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| That is my point stacker, there is not a huge crowd within the sport that has enough of an interest in tournament fishing. The greatest share of fishermen could care less about tournaments...the goal should be to make the tournament part of the sport be able to draw more of the 60 million fishermen...make the product appealing, something it desperately needs. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Now were getting somewhere. Make the product more appealing. Lets see, the events have been held during major festivals. The events have been held in major cities. They have been held in big waters and small waters, televisied with all the drums and bugles and even offered very large payouts. They have offered family friendly events with many items for kids to do. They have done some major things to get more of the PUBLIC interested. However, when the growth of the sport started to boom, it was because the fisherman were show cased and people picked there favorites to watch.
I do not argue the fact that a ever changing and more dynamic product will draw fans to the sport. However, advertising costs, on an average, about 1000.00 per new customer. The circuits do not have that to throw around. What do they have that costs them nothing? Alot of general fisherman that allready love the sport. Also........
There Fisherman. Yep, they spend there own cash to fish there events. yet, yet, we very rarly get a list of who's who before the event. Thats free to do. costs nothing. MWC has it and I love it. AIM started it a bit last year and would look forward to seeing the 15 day rule be instituted this year.
Thanks
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| Holding events during major festivals does nothing to make the sport more appealing...all it does is move an un-appealing event next to an appealing one in hopes that something will rub off on to the tournament.
Big cities, little cities, big waters, little waters and even televised does absolutely nothing but change the location of a sport there is no interest in. You have to change the sport. Location is not the problem here, some of the smallest communities put on some of the biggest events, the problem is the product....tournament fishing, and the overall attitude is a huge factor quite frankly.
It is tough to sell a product there is little interest in and it is not because there has not been enough exposure. As for advertising, there are many ways to get good advertising campaigns under foot with a net result of $.30 to $.50 cost per attendee. Build upon that and word of mouth takes over.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | You certainly make some big statements, I would look for some clarifications as well as a fix. I seen your finger pointing, I heard your blames, I did not see your fix.
With that said, first paragraph you said you are moving a un appealing event next to a appealing event to get a rub off. Aim is doing there events during your appealing events. Can you tell me what is unappealing about there events?
2nd paragraph, .....the problem is the product....tournament fishing, and the overall attitude is a huge factor? please clarify. This is a random statement that holds no water with out exactly what you see that makes it so.
3rd paragraph. I buy and do a lot of advertising. I myself have helped create a few things that give back to the fishing community. you stated that 30 to 50 cents per attendee will get a good advertising campaign under foot. I would like to hear just 2 ideas that will spur the people to attend the events, no, the un-appealing events that there is little interest in, them are your words, for 30 to 50 cents per attendee.
I am asking for lists of players 15 days in advance of a event. I have pro-staff that I can use in advertising. Someone who reads about them can go see that they are in the pro event that is visiting there local waters. Maybe they will want to attend to see them, because they associate with them. How much did that cost? Zero, they just provided a platform for all promoters, including the fisherman themselves, that can be used to get more fans into the sport. The PWT had just got this flowing quite well before greed stepped in and tumbled the apple cart. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | by the way, i know its 307 am but i am going out on the wolf for some pre daybreak fishing. lol |
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| Stacker, Some trails don't even have a list 15 days in advance... At my last Stren Series (FLW) I was 57 on the waiting list. I went up on vacation and to practice anyway... They called 30 minutes before registration... 126 boats outa 200. that would be over 120 boaters who dropped out...
I do agree a running list of who has entered is a great idea in this intenet world... Couple clicks and its done.
When the post Office drops saturdays my walleye trail here in NY will have such a list... |
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| Boy you guys are hitting the nail right on the head, but we need a bigger hammer... To me the biggest problem with our sport compared to others is the fact the public can't watch the anglers compete, all they see them do is come up on stage and weigh the fish in. Aim has limited video footage of some on the water as the FLW and MWC did also, but it is very little and not first hand. I agree with you stacker that the circuits should post fifteen days prior, I also would like to see circuits not allow sign up during that time eather, I don't feel a tournament angler should be allowed in based on the prefish they had... To Grow our sport we need a drawing card to get the people there, and the first thought that came to mind was giveaways. For Example, Jim Coon gives away sponsor products to the last couple of teams in the top % of the field. I feel instead of those products going to the fisherman, give them to the fans in the audience, and have the fisherman coming up on stage draw the names. Sign up prior to the weigh in and see what happens. Advertise this in the flyers, and at all the businesses that support tournament fishing, just a thought... John Schneider |
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| I agree with John in the fact that the tournaments need more on the water coverage and action. AIM did pretty good with that at Green Bay last year, and I have been encouraging them to do more of that with all of their tournaments. Stacker, I also believe that there is a two week deadline for the AIM events, and towards the end of the year they have been trying to get the list up sooner. To start your list now: Keith Kavajecz, Chase Parsons, Gary Parsons are fishing all AIM events. Other Anglers, if your in you may want to post! |
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| John,
Some interesting ideas there. The potential fan base is huge, when compared to other sports. More people buy fishing licenses than go to watch football, Baseball, Bassetball, NASCAR, and certainly soccer, in this country. The issue is exposure to the tourney anglers. I've been saying this for ten years. The Walleye tourney promotoers promote their tourneys, but only to the anglers fishing them. None of them promote the angler, until AIM started up last year. And even they could do so much more.
There really needs to be more local promotion of these tourneys. AIM, FLW, MWC, WMS, IWT, etc. All of them should get more involved in promotions, make it interesting for the fans to come out to the weigh ins, get in there boats to watch the anglers, have on the water action and interviews.
One idea that I have tried to get a few gusys to embrace is the idea of Profile Cards, like the racecar drivers ALL have. Doesn't matter how big or little the venue, they all have fan cards. You can get 1000 4X6 crads for less than $200, with the anglers and boat picture on the front, and bio and stats on the back, with a list of sponosrs also. Hand these out to the kids and fans at tourneys, and maybe be available for an autograh session by your boats in the parking area, or near the stage. Here is an example.
You just can't run a tourney the same way anymore. You need current technology, local advertisement, fan involvement and interest. You need to promote the anglers, as much or more than the tourney itself. Make it a show, and make it interesting and entertaining. Not going to be able to just pay your $40 to the DNR, put out a notice on the internet, and mail entries to past entrants anymore. There isn't a single tourney doing enough to get people interested right now.
Edited by Shep 3/24/2010 9:18 AM
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| When I say unappealing I am not saying that the sport turns people off, I am saying there is no interest, there is no appeal to draw the people. It is a fact that has to be dealt with. Look at it this way, fishing tournaments run behind bowling...there are more bowling tournaments and the top tournaments they charge people to enter to watch...people pay to sit and watch. The top bowlers make millions from the tournament winnings, and then add on the sponsorships on top of that.
As for the events, my point is that taking an activity that no one has had an interest to watch, and moving it to a location and time where there is an event taking place that draws a lot of people does not solve anything.
The problem is the product....tournament fishing, this is as true of a comment as you can get. When no matter what you try, how long you try it and where you move it the sport cannot get traction then there is a problem...and there is reason for it. Tournaments are set up to satisfy the fishermen fishing them, not to satisfy the public to come and watch. There is a big difference in the two and one has a short term goal and reward for the fishermen, the other has a long term goal and reward. Changing the sport would be difficult but if the attitude is leave the fundamental basics about the sport alone and just add a little decoration, you will be here every year with the same concern.
My point on advertising is that is not the problem here. I just got done advertising an event and the per attendee rate that it comes out to is around $.20 cost for every attendee. Advertised not only in the state but from New York to California, have had families from out of state contact me for hotel information so the could come up. There are so many resources and avenues that could be taken but the same old entrenched ideology about tournaments always prevails.
I know you would like to hear ideas that will spur the people to attend the events, don't take this the wrong way, but that is not my job. There are people in the industry that have made a boat load of money from this and that are paid well to organize and figure this out...I am not one of them. If there is one thing I have learned from this industry, there are some who like to take other's ideas and engulf them as their own. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who runs a successful event to give out uncompensated ideas and help.
It is either the sport of tournament fishing has not correctly adapted to what the public wants or the sport just has to accept this is all there is and it is not a sport that is meant to grow much larger. I for one think it is the first.
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Location: Orland Park, IL | Great idea shep. I still have my autographed Nate Provost card. Still looking for my ruffalo card. |
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| Shep, I like your thoughts, Mark Martin helped me with the kids event at Bay City last year and had his 6x10 ready to autograph for every kid that was there, which is really cool. I believe with hard work and us as fisherman devoting some free time to boost the fan base it can be done. I also believe it starts with the kids and you get them interested it will not only help the future but bring the parents into the equation also. I hope the different tournament directors are reading this and I hope the suggestions keep coming, and Stacker Brian Keller, Jim Keller, Nick Schertz, and Myself are all in also for the Aim Events... John Schneider |
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| I agree with paying attention to the kids. They love these cards. So will your sponsors.
If any of you guys wat to get cards made, Dave Olsen(BigO) of Speed Graphics does a great job. I know him from his work with racing at Slinger and Hales, and also from fishing Pewaukee Lake. He's a musky angler, and I think has even tried to catch walleyes.
Here's a link to his website.
http://www.speedgraphicscompany.com/ |
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| Thanks Shep just what I was looking for
I will be giving AIM a shot, Green Bay, Akaska and Winne behind the wheel  |
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Location: Rhinelander | At Winnie AIM produced and published about 22 on the water videos. That's just the on-the-water stuff, not interviews and other color commentary, etc.
Over 30 at Green Bay.
More would be great; all it takes is more equipment in more boats and Pros/Cos willing to take the time.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | WRITTEN BY REDNECK TECH, My point on advertising is that is not the problem here. I just got done advertising an event and the per attendee rate that it comes out to is around $.20 cost for every attendee. Advertised not only in the state but from New York to California, have had families from out of state contact me for hotel information so the could come up. There are so many resources and avenues that could be taken but the same old entrenched ideology about tournaments always prevails.
TO REDNECK TECH, you cannot make a statement about a per attendee cost of advertising until the event actually takes place and people are counted. Guessing how many people will be at your event before it happens then making such a loud statement about costs is, well, is stupid. We know it is not your job to give up the secret to the sphinx either, for free. Not sure you have them either. So if you are not gonna be a fixer on this subject, please keeep to yourself.
ICEMAN, They do have lists, everyone of them have the lists, do not kid yourself.
Gary, John, thanks for the lists. I think you hear what I am saying. Oh, and by the way, you guys need to be around in the crowd after weigh ins and not bunched up together. When you have Gary Chase and Kieth all together, you are very un-approachable. I am not saying that you do this but the fisherman need to be out and working the crowd a bit as well. These guys do want to meet you. Autograph lines like racing is great with the kids. My son still has his Dan Plautz card from PWT Saginaw 2002 or somewheres there. Adult males want to act cool, no meet and greet lines. They just want you to walk up and say hi.
It has also been said to me that many of the fisherman pay there own way so as far as them going out to work a crowd for the benefit of the sport or circuit is not going to happen. Thoughts? |
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