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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | ..... is no more. Did you watch the Gary Parsons pre take off video. For the first time in public, he openly admitted that he knows what keith and chase have been doing and how they been doing and "The 3 of them that ride together and room together"....
Like it or not, at least the hiding the fact has stopped. Now maybe we can get the low down on the teams that have formed and know who is fishing with who, and how they work, and how they have been doing and all that.... |
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Location: Berlin | I was SHOCKED! You mean there are "teams" that work together to find fish during the prefish period? That is crazy stuff right there.  |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Perry Good summed it up pretty well as he talked about teams with Ron Lindner and Jim Kalkofen in their last radio piece. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I'm not believing a word of this team stuff........they do not exist!! |
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Location: Berlin | I suppose next he is going to tell us these guys get paid to brag about the products they use...sheesh |
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| stacker arnt you the guy who braggs about knowing who the teams are but you never wanna tell anyone? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | wildflower - 8/12/2010 4:40 PM
stacker arnt you the guy who braggs about knowing who the teams are but you never wanna tell anyone?
exactly why would that matter wildflower? even though you do have me confused with someone else thats knows more, why exactly would that matter? come out of your closet wildflower, its ok, and tell us all why you think it matters?
The worm has turned and jerry and rich know this. for new guys who dont know, these public admittances will change the game for ever, just watch.
When 2 of the founding fathers admitt it publicly, thats power. |
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| This post has to be an attempt at sarcasim at the very least. Everyone in the planet knows those three guys have always worked together and that many others do as well. IF I am wrong here then I guess we could beat this thing to death in the good old groundhound day fashion.
Take care,
Jim O |
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Location: Berlin | Seriously, I agree Denny. Not sure why it took so long hence my sarcasm. Being open and public about these teams is a step in the right direction imo. Keeping it quiet might confuse newbies into thinking it needs to be kept quiet for the wrong reasons. They are not doing anything wrong so why keep it quiet. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jim Ordway - 8/16/2010 6:10 PM
This post has to be an attempt at sarcasim at the very least. Everyone in the planet knows those three guys have always worked together and that many others do as well. IF I am wrong here then I guess we could beat this thing to death in the good old groundhound day fashion.
Take care,
Jim O
The one thing many of us take for granted, and the majority knows nothing about, TEAMS.
"the worm has turned and the game can move forward at a incredible pace"
Edited by stacker 8/17/2010 9:15 AM
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | Since some here find this information to be of major importance and feel it will create some sort of "change", could you please tell me how many people who follow fishing and, walleye tournament fishing in particular, didn't know that teams existed before the past weekend? To add, please explain what this "change" will be? Sorry folks, but I just don't see this to be a relevation of any sort. I think anyone who followed walleye tournament fishing knew that teams existed for many years before I started......just my opinion. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | jerry - 8/17/2010 11:18 AM
Since some here find this information to be of major importance and feel it will create some sort of "change", could you please tell me how many people who follow fishing and, walleye tournament fishing in particular, didn't know that teams existed before the past weekend? To add, please explain what this "change" will be? Sorry folks, but I just don't see this to be a relevation of any sort. I think anyone who followed walleye tournament fishing knew that teams existed for many years before I started......just my opinion.
Good call Jerry, and after being a FAN of the sport for over 20 years here is my humble opinion, which you know is always right.
Most guys, when starting out in the tourney world, have no idea how things work. Even today, there are guys who have no idea how AIM works for sure. I have 3 guys who have been fishing events for over 5 years that tell me that AIM will not survive because when they fished with pros from other states, the pro would not listen to them on there own body of water and did not catch many fish. Honestly, doing what I do for a living I talk to tons of guys. Miss information and twisted info has most not even wanting to be a fan of the sport. From the FLW guys twisting things against AIM, from one guy saying there are teams, one guys says there are partners, ones guy says they share rooms but no info, and so on and so on. It has been happening since the start, BUT, unless you are very close to it all, you will never hear it all. It was the brothers handshake. THIS IS THE TRUTH.
Enter the knew era where a sponsor can form a team that actually works together in public. Maybe actually have the investment to pay there way in the sport. More addvertisements to cover more fractions of the public that fish, and maybe spark the thrill of the sport to others. A guy can cheer for his favorite group knowing that so and so did not win on the hump by himself, it was a team effort and more info gets out to the public. Jerry, you know I know, and we both know lots of people that know as well, but I bet we can go through the various walleye clubs, the guys who are members because they are addicted, and most will not know what we are talking about or they think they know and we will find out they really dont.
"Without followers, there is no leader."
"Keep doing what you are doing and expect it to change".
"Attitude reflects leadership"
To make the sport more mainstream, more have to follow the pied pipers. The whole idea of 2 founding fathers of the sport, Perry Good and Gary Parsons, that are willing to now divulge the fact there are teams is a movement in the right directions. And not a bowel either. The marketing minds can start working.
Edited by stacker 8/17/2010 1:13 PM
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| Stacker, flip your switch back to normal talk, you must have bumped it to "politic speak"...
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| Stacjer, you obviously have not fished In an AIM event. You as a co angler are not to give out advise to the pros, they should have a program buy then figured iut, and if not so be it. Your three buddies should have known that and kept thier mouths shut |
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Location: Rhinelander | I actually agree with Stacker in principle. The 'average' walleye tournament fan/observer saw only the articles and releases saying who won, and had no idea that win may have been the result, in part, of a team of Pros working together.
Now the Pros are actually talking about their teams and partners on stage, and it's obvious the practice is not anywhere near as much a negative to the competition and the sport as one might assume. Is it 'fair'? Sure, as long as it isn't against the rules. And Stacker might have something with his idea of sponsored teams marketed by companies that want thier products out in front of the public. In fact, that's already goi9ng on, to a degree. |
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| You think this is the first public mention that teams exist? Evidently, you haven't paid any attention to the comments made by the 2 leading money winners in Walleye tournament fishing. Comments about and thanking teammates were made, publically, made as far back as 2001 that I know of, and more than likely, even before that. To suggest that Gary Parsons and Perry Good were the first to openly mention they are members of teams is inaccurate at best.
As for any changes that will now be a result of these two mentioning teams? Uhm, no. This "revelation" will have absolutely no effect on the future success or failure of Pro Walleye Tourneys. Any changes on the horizon will happen regardless of teams, and are going to happen because of new marketing strategies, new exciting tourney venues, non-endemic sponsorship, a better economy(most important), new tourney formats and promotion, individual angler promotion, etc.
As to the co-anglers complaining their info was not used? Unlike FLW, AIM has the following rule.
"After the start of the pre-tournament Rules Meeting, AIM Co-Anglers are prohibited from sharing fishing information, including fishing spots, methods, or fishing tackle, with AIM Pro Anglers until the completion of the tournament. Violations will result in the disqualification of the Co-Angler and the Pro Angler who uses this information. NO EXCEPTIONS"
Prpbably lucky for them, the Pros didn't turn them in, eh? Besides, as a co, who cares if the pro does great or not? Except for having fun catching a lot of fish, and maybe learning a new presentation, or location, if the Pro isn't catching many fish, it's not like the Co's are competing against each other. And one can also learn from unsuccessful presentaion and locations, too. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Shep - 8/18/2010 11:06 AM
You think this is the first public mention that teams exist? Evidently, you haven't paid any attention to the comments made by the 2 leading money winners in Walleye tournament fishing. Comments about and thanking teammates were made, publically, made as far back as 2001 that I know of, and more than likely, even before that. To suggest that Gary Parsons and Perry Good were the first to openly mention they are members of teams is inaccurate at best.
As for any changes that will now be a result of these two mentioning teams? Uhm, no. This "revelation" will have absolutely no effect on the future success or failure of Pro Walleye Tourneys. Any changes on the horizon will happen regardless of teams, and are going to happen because of new marketing strategies, new exciting tourney venues, non-endemic sponsorship, a better economy(most important), new tourney formats and promotion, individual angler promotion, etc.
As to the co-anglers complaining their info was not used? Unlike FLW, AIM has the following rule.
"After the start of the pre-tournament Rules Meeting, AIM Co-Anglers are prohibited from sharing fishing information, including fishing spots, methods, or fishing tackle, with AIM Pro Anglers until the completion of the tournament. Violations will result in the disqualification of the Co-Angler and the Pro Angler who uses this information. NO EXCEPTIONS"
Prpbably lucky for them, the Pros didn't turn them in, eh? Besides, as a co, who cares if the pro does great or not? Except for having fun catching a lot of fish, and maybe learning a new presentation, or location, if the Pro isn't catching many fish, it's not like the Co's are competing against each other. And one can also learn from unsuccessful presentaion and locations, too.
Prime example of:
"Keep doing what you are doing and expect it to change". |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | sworrall - 8/18/2010 11:00 AM
I actually agree with Stacker in principle. The 'average' walleye tournament fan/observer saw only the articles and releases saying who won, and had no idea that win may have been the result, in part, of a team of Pros working together.
Now the Pros are actually talking about their teams and partners on stage, and it's obvious the practice is not anywhere near as much a negative to the competition and the sport as one might assume. Is it 'fair'? Sure, as long as it isn't against the rules. And Stacker might have something with his idea of sponsored teams marketed by companies that want thier products out in front of the public. In fact, that's already goi9ng on, to a degree.
This will fit in here, I think Sworrall agrees:
"Without followers, there is no leader."
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| Do you read only what you want to read? Please read the whole post, and pay attention to what I, and others have been saying for years. I'll pick the important part out for you.
"Any changes on the horizon will happen regardless of teams, and are going to happen because of new marketing strategies, new exciting tourney venues, non-endemic sponsorship, a better economy(most important), new tourney formats and promotion, individual angler promotion, etc."
How do you read that as doing the same thing?
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Location: Rhinelander | Shep, I don't think we're talking about 'first mention', we are talking about public perception. The AVERAGE fan didn't know about the teams, and it wasn't discussed much. It appears now it will be, onstage, in articles and interviews, regularly and often.
I think Stacker was talking about the fact the locals he spoke to SAID what they did..even a few of the participants in the events, knowing the rules or not, don't yet understand the landscape. if they don't, and talk openly about it, how is the 'average' fan supposed to ferret it all out? |
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| OK, given I accept that premise, who is considered the "Average" fan?
I don't think that list would include 95% of the people who attend weigh ins, and those fish tourneys such as FLW, AIM, MWS, IAT, IWS, Merc, Otter Street, MWC, SWC, and many others. Perhaps a portion of the entrants in some local bar tourneys don't have any idea, but are they really considered fans of Professional Walleye Tournaments?
You want to build the fan base, you got to promote the individual anglers. Sure, the fact they are members of a certain team may help their following, but until Walleye angling has some charactors, and promotes them, like Bass fishing does, well, I don't see mentioning teams making that big of a difference. |
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Location: Rhinelander | The 'average fan' is the person checking in here and elsewhere on the web looking for news and info of the day. They won't post here, for any one of a number of reasons. They will be influenced by what they read; count on it. The front page with Jesse's image on it means he will acquire new 'fans', but what is he REALLY known for? Riding the Bull....and now he won that event in that town. That's what it's all about. he stepped out and did something different, and the media picked up on it.
Teams are not a bad thing, nor are they a good thing, but the concept can and should be marketed/publicized IF many of the top pros are associated with teams anyhow.
We just had this conversation with Ron Lindner Monday. We spoke about why BASS has Icons in the sport, and even though FLW pays out WAY more, the 'average' fan sometimes has trouble remembering who won the last big event. Why did some of the higher profile Pros leave BASS for FLW? Is it the payouts....or the perception that the top guys 'get all the press'? We talked about how despite all of this, the entire industry is in a state of flux not seen since the early days.
I believe building fans and a fan base is about the methodology used in creating household names, and marketing the very sport they live in by using that household name. It's the creation of nicknames, of image, of stature or lack thereof, it's...the sport. it's ESPN.
So NOW what? |
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| Shep - 8/18/2010 11:29 AM
You want to build the fan base, you got to promote the individual anglers. Sure, the fact they are members of a certain team may help their following, but until Walleye angling has some charactors, and promotes them, like Bass fishing does, well, I don't see mentioning teams making that big of a difference.
Just said pretty much the exact same thing.
Yep, Jesse is a character, allright. So, too is Keith, and Gary, for sure Tommy Skarlis, Tom Keenan, and so goes the list. But until AIM formed, who was promoting the ANGLERS? FLW promoted FLW, Ranger Boats and the big payout. PWT promoted In-Fisherman Magazine. But they weren't promoting the anglers. At all.
Now you have AIM. For the Anglers, By the Anglers. They have a lot to learn, but I believe their pointed in the right direction. They could learn alot by going to the local stock car track, and see what promoting the DRIVERS does. Fans wear T-Shirts, have RaceCards, and seek out their favorite driver after the races in the pits for an autogragh, or just to get a close look at the car and driver. There, driver gives out cards, signs autograghs, gives out candy, or gum, and is there for everyone who wants to get up close and personal. Kids get to sit in the driver seat of the race car they just watched a while ago on the track. It's exciting for them. Not so at the Pro Tourneys.
Kids were pretty much ignored and bored, if you even saw them at a weigh in. This has changed with AIM, and now I see FLW has started the similar thing this year. That's great. But there can be a lot more. Name one Pro Waleye angler, that has a profile card. Like the RaceCards I posted years ago, and more recently, with a picture of the boat and angler on it, and stats, records, bio info, and list of sponsors, and maybe even teammates on the back. Name one. I can't.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for growing Pro Walleye Tourneys. But for Stacker to say I agree and suggest we keep doing the same thing? Hardly.
Edited by Shep 8/18/2010 4:25 PM
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| MWC has teams. So do several other tourneys.
Larry |
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| Not sure what the big deal is?
While fishing as a co-angler in the AIM events, teams of pros sharing info and payouts is openly discussed. |
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