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Location: Manitowoc, WI | My partner's and I had a good discussion Saturday night after day one of the MWC in regards to gas prices and tournament fishing. For the most part, we all felt that gas prices and other expenses would be the end of smaller tourney circuits, as the rewards would not be worth the amount of money it takes to run our rigs and tow them around. Just wondering what everyone else feels about this? As an example, I prefished Thursday and Friday on the Bay, pulling my boat to Cedar River's launch and driving by boat from Marinette to Big Bay both days. My gas bill came in at around $750 for the weekend for my truck (diesel) and boat......:( |
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Location: Rhinelander | Gasoline prices are changing how I do many things, including my day time job. Expenses as high as $750 for fuel in prefish and the event bring total expenses for a team to at least $1000 for fuel, lodging, and food. If an event pays out $1200 for first, that could be a problem. Hopefully, fuel prices will come back down some this fall. |
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| Myself and teamates have had similar discussions!! Recently placed 9th in the Flw league event and took home a check for $525 w/ranger bonus. Prefished for 3 days and with hotels, meals, gas and last minute tackle, I don't think I broke even with a top ten finish!! We are done!!!! |
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Location: Chicago IL. | Fishing the smaller tourneys is getting harder and harder. If your going to do them to MAKE money,your in the wrong business. If you going to fish them to have fun and cash a check to HELP pay your expenses, you in the right game. The gas is your biggest ouch for sure. By the time you add up all you out of pocket money,you will most likely be in the hole. But I will continue to fish them, to go out and have fun,and hope to put it together to cash a check. When it stops being fun, I will be done. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I agree John. Part of it is the enjoyment. I still enjoy the fishing and the competiton. Just not sure which way I will go with this for next year. Take Lake Cumberland for example: $1,300 in fuel for the trip, around $3,300 in expenses total. It's getting out of hand. |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | Jerry,
I think you will see a more effort to have events closer to populations that fish them on National Level that is. For even thou directors of all circuits are working on new waters they also realize this is going to curtail participation to a point for feasibility of ones that are going to fish them and will look at the where and how local anglers can increase the ranks for when they have lose of normal ones that would traveled but are caught in the pitch of cost and rising expenses.
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| Great Topic!
I have to agree with Steve. The gas prices have totally changed the way many of us do business. When it comes to tournament fishing it will certainly have an impact. I imagine you will see more anglers targeting close to home waters where they don't feel the need for several days of pre-fish. You'll also see some anglers looking for spots close to the launch to conserve gas. Instead of going for the win they'll play it conservative to try and break even. That's unfortunate.
I know of some PWT pros who have been in Mobridge since last weekend. I can't imagine the money they are dumping on fuel. Two weeks of pre-fish! You'd need to finish in the Top 20 just to make your gas money. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio |
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Location: Rockford MN | After the GB event I looked at the amount of money I spent on fuel, WOW! This whole thing is out of hand, It's not that fun anymore! Just in what I have spent in fuel this year for fishing, I could have taken my whole family to some Island for 2 weeks. Boats and Motors are out of hand and so is the fuel! Closer to home events are the only things I will do from now on! Cherry picking events is the only way to fish tournies anymore. I bet there are a few Credit Card Companies that are loving life! lol
On a good note; I stayed over in Algoma for a few days and spent very little on fuel fishing for Salmon! NOW THATS FUN! I can't wait to get back over there in Aug. |
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| The GNWC has already announced they are taking a proactive step to get ahead of this.
I suspect other circuits will follow.
http://www.up-north.net/ubb/Forum94/HTML/000586.html |
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Location: Rockford MN | Hummm
Being that it is a business, I think its more about the cost they are feeling than the angler. The whole tournament thing is more and more about the tours than the anglers anymore! Why do you think sponsors are willing to help fund curcuits? There is something in it for them, same goes for the curcuits themselfs. PEOPLE would not do this unless they MAKE something or get something only smart business! |
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Location: Loves Park, IL now Mt. View Ar. | I cut way back this year...No flw events...just the MWC central and Detroit. That still putt a big hole in my pocket book. I love to fish competitaly and meet old and new friends. It's hard to justify the expence and the pay out in some of the touny's out there. Almost cashed a check at Green Bay that would of helped. At lest my house got some TLC this summer, after the years of being gone so much throught out the summer.
Steve Anderson |
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Location: Northern Illinois | Previously, I have never let gas expenses influence my tourney fishing. My attitude has been that gas is part of the expense of fishing tourneys and finding fish; end of story. If I am going into a tourney, with all its expenses, I was not going to limit myself based upon the cost of gas - I was trying to find fish within bounds. AFTER running Green Bay so hard last week, I must admit I am giving some thought to re-thinking strategies based upon the cost of gas and OPTI oil. We will see. WM |
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| I cut back this year, but mostly because of the new house, and lawn that need my attention. But I don't think I would have used the price of fuel alone as a determinning factor whether to fish a tourney or not. As my truck and boat are both paid for, I don't feel the pinch of the gas bill quite as much as I would if I was making payments on both! Jerry, that is some serious fuel expense for that tourney!
I had this discussion with a friend last Friday before the MWC. His feeling is that this is a business. He needs to do whatever it takes to be successful, so if that means a 65 mile run to get his fish, so be it. It helps that he's part of a good team, and they split up the prefishing, and work well together.
But, like any other sport, sponsorship in fishing will undergo some changes in the not too distant future. Intead of boat discounts, and free tackle/product, I believe more up front money will be the only way to survive on these tours. And I'm talking serious coinage, in the 10's of thousands of dollars and more. And this will result in more and more nonfishing related sponsorships coming into the sport. Now, this means we'll have to compete with all the other sports and teams with their hands out, but I just don't think there is enough fishingf related dollars to go around. Creative marketing will be key, and maybe even lead to agents/sports marketing opprotunites for the top names.
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| My point of view is a little different, but the question of does gas prices affect your fishing plans, the answer is still yes.
I've not really been a tournament angler up to now, but I may be headed that way because of gas prices - let me explain.
This year I have been prefishing with friends at FLW and PWT events. Since I end up prefishing with a pro, I don't bring my boat. Now I am getting 30 mpg instead of 11 to get there. I have a hard time getting the pro's I prefish with to allow me to pay for @ 1/2 the daily gas bill. They let me contribute, but not a full half. I'll admit that my smaller motor would use about 1/2 of what the larger pro boat motors use, so 1/2 of theirs would be about my same gas usage.
I really considered renting a slip for a month this year, but did not. A slip for my boat, for a month - $150.00. If I planned on focusing my fishing during a month, and doing my other honey do's before and after that month, again I would save by driving a high mpg car to the slip on weekends. Another option that is starting to get attractive is to just get rid of the boat, pay the entry fee to fish as a co-angler. If I fished 3 tournaments as co, with prefishing week, that would be 30 days on the water. I'm not sure I get 30 full days on the water with my own boat?? So, I may start participating in tournaments because of gas prices.
One thing for sure - I'm not starting any more hobbies that take gas to participate. I can't afford it. Example - I think I'll do woodworking instead of snowmobiling - if I had to chose between the 2 as 'new' hobbies. Unfortunately, I'm already hooked on fishun - pun intended.  |
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| Jerry you hit it right on the head. I pre-fished for three days prior to the tournament. Total gas and oil bill came to approximately $475. That doesn't include entry fee, license, bait, food, lodging, etc... We finished 13th which paid out $1,000. I've been competing in tournaments for 20+ years and if I didn't truly love the competition and fishing in general, I would have an even more difficult time justifying the costs. Basically my partner and I did not cover our expenses even with a 13th place finish. Makes you wonder a bit. I guess it's just like any other hobby, you justify it based on the satisfaction you get from it. Yes I will be back to kick your butt in 2006. |
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| Jerry,
I thought I was the only one holding back this year because of this issue. I have made far fewer trips this year than last. I don't know how a working guy with payments and a mortgage can afford tourneys with the cost of equipment fuel and lodging. I agree with the premise that this will have an strong effect on tourney entries. I do not see fuel prices dropping substantially unless a strong recession sets in, and we do not want that scenario.
Granted, we all get use to higher prices. We all remember when the $2.00 level was reached and everyone thought the economy would collapse. Instead, everything seems to be humming along just fine. Running over the water at somewhere between 50 cents and a buck per mile does burn a bit of a hole in the wallet
Take care,
Jim O |
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| Shep made an interesting point about big money up front and agents. Many of the top BASS anglers already work with big agencies like Octagon Sports Marketing. This company represents many traditional sports athletes too. The odd thing here is that even on the bass side of things the money is tight.
While discussing the sponsorship issue with one of the most sponsored anglers I know fishing the Bassmaster Tour he said only about 20 or maybe 30 anglers are making a solid living via sponsors. Most of the anglers who have decent sponsorships are just breaking even and need to make a few bucks from winnings. As we all know that is not a very realistic road to follow.
Hopefully sponsors will start seeing the tremendous value that is provided them by the fishing industry in general. The fishing "audience" far surpasses that of professional tennis or golf and yet is still thought of as a backwoods endeavor by many sponsors.
Times are changing slowly, but with gas prices as they are expect many things to increase in cost in addition to the zillion bucks we have to pump into the tanks of our Rangers, Tuffys, Lunds, Crestliners, Skeeters, Tritons etc.
Maybe Jerry can get the guys at the nuke plant to have us in hydrogen powered Mercs by next year! LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio |
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| Good topic, Jerry. The problem is magnified out in the wild west.
IMHO... The first thing we will see is fewer guys fishing an entire circuit. Example...our Montana Circuit...I can rack up a 1000 mile round trip...just going to and from a Ft. Peck tounament based out of Glasgow, MT.
Some guys living in Montana will have 1400 mile round trip just to get to and from a tourney on Ft. Peck.... Of course, the miles have not changed and fishermen have been making runs like this...but we were paying half as much for a gallon of fuel as we are now.
I think tournaments will get back to where they were 15-20 years ago....folks fishing a tourney here and there, but only a couple a year...and mostly the ones closest to their home.
The Pro Circuits will truly necessitate a "beginning Pro" to have a heck of a bankroll to participate...Uffdah!
It is going to make us kind of revert back to the way things were in the 70s in terms of our travelling habits.
Bummer... |
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| Thought the gas prices might start to make a difference soon. Making an impact in lots os areas. Long ago I figured the cost of competative fishing vs what I was making as a guide made it a very easy decision to get paid 90% of the time I fished (1 out of 10 days I'd be fishing with friends) then hope to break even or make some money with a top 3 finish. SO many good anglers out there and luck as a factor made it pretty simple for me. Although a smaller pool of anglers in the smaller tournaments could make for a lot of competition hungry anglers fishing the amature side of the bigger tournaments.
Dave, not sure I agree with >The fishing "audience" far surpasses that of professional tennis or golf and yet is still thought of as a backwoods endeavor by many sponsors.< Not sure about tennis but the galleries at a professional golf event are growing. How much money does a gallery of 30,000 people leave on a course over a entire day vs a gallery of ??? leave at a PWT event during a 4 hour weigh-in. How about the dollars spent during the entire evnt by spectators. From what I could find fishing numbers are dropping a bit at around 34 million participants and golf numbers are going up and are near 30 million right now. AND, as far as backwoods endeavor, well it IS to a point. The "average" fisherman WANTS backwoods endeavors and the average golfer wants to get better and play more golf. As they get better they watch more golf or are more interested in going to see an event. Also, the sheer magnatude of the difficulty of earning the right to PLAY on the top level in golf FAR surpasses what it takes to fish the RCL or PWT. That's why bowling has always had trouble, percieved as too easy to do. Not a spit ball and NOT trying to diminish the effort and skill it takes to fish on that level, just trying to see where you were going. I bet Keith Kavajecz wished fishing DID pay 10% as good as golf. The #1 golfer in the world makes 25 million just on endorsements and a event champion's check is a little bit larger too.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 7/22/2005 3:04 PM
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Location: Rockford MN | I 100% agree! I the real world (outside our little walleye world) No one knows who we are! Tours have done very little to nothing to promote there anglers, thus far the anglers have worked hard to promote themselfs to get a head. Bass on the other hand figured this out long before the walleye world.
Sponsors pay way more to the Bass guys because they are promoted MUCH better by there tours, mags, and tackle and boat man... . While tours are popping up all over the place, avg. angler bases are shrinking. Sales continue to grow for alot of manufactures and prices are rising at alarming rates, but there overall base is getting smaller. Golf WILL price itself out as well, $60 greens fees and the cost of clubs is going to jump even more til folks can't afford to play.
Every year these small curcuits seem to be growing, but how long are they going to grow when the costs to play are rising? The big boys that have been there the longest and are the most established are getting the money and most are hanging on (not making a killing). I the real world most people could careless who we are and what we do! |
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Location: Shabbona | In tournaments past me an my partner put in 200 bucks apiece in a kitty.. That covered boat fuel truck fuel and a couple breakfast in there also.. At GB we had to kick in 500 apiece to save face with fuel..................When the trip was over there was 3 bucks left.....
But I gotta tell Ya I'll be back next Year..............Hopefully no Squirrel finds it's way to My live well.................. |
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| Joel,
Speaking about the "audience" I'm refering to the numbers of folks who participate in the sports. The numbers I've seen from various organizations put the total number of sport anglers in this country somehwere between 44 and 50 million. Those figures more than double the combined totals of those who regularly participate in golf and tennis combined.
The reference to backwoods was not to be taken as that of refering to literal backwoods experience somewhere deep in the northwoods, but to the impression many potential nonendemic sponsors view fishing as something only rubes and hillbillies do.
It most certainly is not that, although a trip to the Quetico in the backwoods is often desired by those who don't fish for a living. Actually a trip to the Quetico sounds good to me right now. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
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Location: Rockford MN | Those are close to the numbers I remember seeing also, however the ratings for a golf event on TV are tough to beat. I think the bass guys have huge advantage right now, they can junp around in there boats in some back waters and play fish. We have light line and are much more boring reeling in a fish with 200' of line out. Flippin a worm in cover in 2' of water and pulling them out with a pool cue and 80lb superbraid is much more fun for people to watch (I guess).
Also how many times can we show people who to hook up a board to line and let it out? People want to see hooksets and fish flying into the boat! The crazier the guy in the boat, the more people talking about it! I wonder what they can come up with next to help grow the sport? Seems to me that the Bass tours are 10 steps ahead of the walleye tours at all times. I find it hard to grow the sport with little interest! |
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| Gordy,
I agree completely about the television end. In reality, the TV world has only been covering tournament fishing in the mainstream since ESPN started covering the FLW Bass Tour in the '90's and then when ESPN purchased BASS in 2001 they now cover the Bassmaster events. Tennis and golf have been on air since, I think, the 1950's.
All things considered we have several years to go before we see the ratings jump. Think about fishing, we all do it. How many folks actually go and golf at St. Andrews or swing a racket at Wimbledon? All of us can fish the Championship waters in Houghton or on the Mississippi. We tend to be out participating in our sport when these tournament fishing shows are on television.
Back to gas prices though. Mark Martin was on our show last night and he said his average per tournament cost has risen to around $3,000 per event. He has very good financial sponsors and it's still a massive financial burden. Now imagine what the bass guys pay! Their tournaments cost an extra $1,000 or more per event. Next year the Bassmaster Tour pros have 11 events! That's over $40,000 to run the entire tour!
Jerry really needs to get his nuke plant guys to develop an atomic outboard for Mercury to cut our gas bills. LOL
Dave Landahl
Fishing Fanatics Radio
Edited by Dave Landahl 7/22/2005 7:35 PM
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Location: Rockford MN | Points well taken!
Do we have any guys out there can sponsor us poor fishermen on the gas end??? lol It's only about $1000 a week! |
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