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| Message Subject: Mortality Rate on Winnebago Tournaments | |||
Purple Skeeter |
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Member Posts: 885 | x Edited by Purple Skeeter 6/28/2006 7:55 PM | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Personally, I think the tourny's release too many fish. I'd much rather we filleted every fish in question then end up with even one floater. Someone eating fish is a great thing... wasting one bothers me a bit. What's 3000 fish to a population of over 500,000? Want to reduce the mortality rate? Make sure the scales are open a few hours after the boats launch and encourage anglers to return early. Limit the distance anglers can run. But the most important thing would be to make sure you tell mother nature when you plan on having the tourny because weather conditions will dictate mortality in most events. | ||
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| guest |
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| How does everyone view the chart? Looks like a lot of dead fish. Face it the DNR needs to limit the number of tournaments on the Winnebago system. Remember, these are usually the larger fish not "eaters". It's time for a slot limit on Winnebago, similar to the limits on the Wisconsin river system.(and some Minnesota lakes) I believe you can keep one fish over 20" there. Everyone complains about the lack of trophy sized walleyes caught on Winnebago, well this may be the reason why. (along with the annual spring slaughter on the Wolf river). | |||
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| Dave |
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Member Posts: 284 | I was very surprised to see those results also. I think a little education and care could go along way. If you are going to fish tournaments I think you owe it to the fish to have a battery strong enough to run a quality livewell all day long. Also, if the weather is warm like it usually is for this group of tournaments people should have coolers in the boat with frozen jugs of ice to keep the water in the livewell at a reasonable temp. When my first fish goes in the livewell it runs all day and I use ice jugs throughout the day to keep that water cool. I remember the FLW event last July when it was over 90 degrees out. Our fish were jumping all over the place when we came to weigh in. You are always going to lose deep hooked fish, especially on a harness bite time of year but these results are suprising. Also, it seems obvious but all three of these tourneys (especially Merc) have weigh in areas that are shallow hot water. If guys are pumping any of that crap water in their livewells during weigh in their fish will be done almost instantly. My last thought, I know some tournaments played with a fish in water weigh in last year. That is a great idea. The site of 5 or 6 hens laying in a plastic bin while we sit up there and jabber about how we caught them or dodge questions isn't good. Get those fish off the stage and back in the water immediately. Thats always bothered me. A few years back I had a boat with a livewell plug that would fall out. I fished a tourney on GB and on the way in with 1 28" fish my plug popped out. That fish got the crap beat out of it for over 20 miles and looked just terrible when we got in. I was embarassed to weigh it. From that point forward I've been a lot more careful about the way I handle my fish. Leave early if you have your fish and take it easy on them if there is rough water. | ||
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| Dale |
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Member Posts: 874 Location: Neenah, WI | It seems that at every tournament I fish I see guys making the same mistakes that end up with dead or dying fish.We've been pretty good at keeping our fish in good shape over the years by just paying attention to details. 1. Plug your overflow so that you don't lose too much water while running. 2. Install a Survivor. It's a water pickup device that costs about 25 bucks and installs in a minute or so. 3. Once you get near the other boats waiting to weigh in, STOP drawing water into your livewell. There's a lot of gas and oil residue that will kill your fish. The water will also be warmer than out on the lake. We always stop a little further out and top the livewell off. 4. We don't add ice until we are done running. Jugs or blocks of ice are great for cooling the water but at high speeds those things can bang the fish up quite a bit. I agree that too many fish are released. Those that are questionable should be cleaned with the dead ones and donated to food pantries, etc. Good Luck this season. | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Purple, I spoke about this topic recently and for what it's worth, the late tournaments with warmer waters do the most damage for any species. As well, two of these tournaments are really "amature" types where many locals get involved with equipment that is not up to par, I'd like to know how many rigs even used a boat with a livewell much less a boat with a recirc. system in it. The information gathered from these events is extremely valuable to the DNR and the costs to gather this kind of data in another fashion (creel census) would by far cost more than the 3000 dead fish last year. Put it into perspective and think about how many people you actually know that kept fish this last year and start adding it up, 3000 is really a drop in the bucket compared to what was learned and harvested by anglers of the estimated 1.4 million walleyes in the system! I have to agree with many that if there are going to be tourneys in water over a certain temp they should be catch and kill. I see no reason to "reduce" the number of tourneys on th system but I do see the need for beter tournamnet rules and regulation. Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| Guest |
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| What is the advantage of catch and kill at a certain temp? Don't you have the option to do what you want already? Explain to me what good a tournament would be where you killed every fish. It should be all live releases or let the fisherman do what they want with them. When are people around here going to understand that there are reasons that you can't catch anything on that system over 26 inches... | |||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| 3000 fish would actually be less then the 2 day limit for 200 boats with two anglers. 400 anglers X 5 fish is 2000 fish. There are a lot more fish taken during a typical few days of fishing by those fishing for the freezer. 3 and 4 anglers in boats pulling baits catching and keeping fish and tournament angler hours PRE fishing are more of a concern IMHO. Mostly due to my opinion on tag response and delayed mortality rates from the guys who pre fish hard. | |||
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| Purple Skeeter |
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Member Posts: 885 | x Edited by Purple Skeeter 6/28/2006 7:56 PM | ||
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| wall-nut |
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Member Posts: 25 Location: Fox Lake, Illinois | The guys/gals that I know usually pre-fish up to a week in advance. I for one and most of the others that I know don't keep the fish that we catch during the pre fishing except for maybe 1 meal that we get together for. ( that is if we can find anyone to cook ) Once a fish is caught, it is shy about biting again and that can slow down the fishing for anyone after the tournament. Once I find an area with fish, I stay away from fishing it again but will take a drive over to check on my finder to see if the eyes are still there. Sometimes all of the fish caught are donated to pantrys or to schools. It makes sense to me when the water is warm the mortality rate isn't seen right away, a lot of those fish take time to die, develop problems relating to being handled and released in warm waters. Some tournaments will take the eyes to be released by boat to cleaner, cooler water but I for one think that is too late when the weather is that warm. AND, I've seen some happy people without the ability to fish or are unable to afford fish that are grateful to have the donations. | ||
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| guest |
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| I agree with one of the other guests, there should be a slot limit on the Winnebago system and the number of tournaments limited. They have tournaments on lakes in Minnesota with slot limits. Maybe we would start seeing some larger walleyes after a few years of slot limits. Maybe all walleyes between 20-28" should be released. When I overhear river fishermen bragging about having hundreds of walleyes in the freezer after the spring run, it makes me wonder if anyone is practicing catch and release. | |||
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| Guest |
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| I'll say it and it goes like this. This fishery is awesome, absolutely awesome with the numbers and growth rate of the fish. However, with the current regs, meat hunters in the river (I still cannot believe the DNR lets it happen) and the ever increasing pressure from tournaments, we are in the good old days right now and sooner or later people will realize that its too late and things will crash. Its in the numbers plain and simple. Protect the spawners and things will probably hold up, but mark my words, it will crash eventually. | |||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| If you now of ANYBODY who brags about hundreds of filets in the freezer, call the DNR tip line. Each person is allowed 10 total in possesion. So, someone with 5 in the freezer can catch a limit of walleye. A person with 10 in the freezer, can keep ZERO. Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 3/18/2006 9:59 PM | |||
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| mystery man |
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| Hey Guest, Easy with pointing the finger at the river as meat hunters the entire system has plenty of them...not just the river!!! | |||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| Actually, MORE fish are kept on Poygan and Bago during May June and July BY FAR, then the supposed "meat hunters" on the river. Doesn't take much of a math wiz to figure that one out. This is an opinion formed by years of asking the right questions of the right people for works published and to be published. The MELEE goes on when the trolling bite is on for 12 WEEKS, not the few days of good fishing on the down run. So Mr."guest", please remember to check your info before you blow your horn in such a way as to accuse those who fish the river as "meat hunters". So, the guy who goes trolling day after day with his friends in June isn't a meat hunter???? Mmmmmmmmm Me thinks you're calling the wolf an ugly chicken and leaving him in the hen house. I agree that there are reasons to be concerned for the long term but also trust the guys who are on the home team to lead us in the right direction. KK's a pretty smart guy with lots of good people around him plus help from groups such as WFT. I'm glad that others such as yourself share your concerns for the system. You, I and others around us also share some parts of your concerns. | |||
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| Guest |
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| Fair enough. You are right. I'm just saying that if the adult population is down, then maybe something should be done to ensure this fishery doesn't crash, especially when people are targeting these big fish while they are in the river and during the tournaments. I do recall someone on this board commenting on buckets of fish over 20 some inches coming out of the river in the spring and how common it is to get a limit over 25 inches. C'mon, is that sportsmanship? On Upper Red Lake the indians increased the size of the gill nets to bring in larger walleyes when the price of walleye went up and they were struggling on the reservation. The % of larger walleyes increased big time, pretty soon there wasn't enough females to keep up with the take. Look what's happened to one of the best walleye lakes in North America in the last fifteen years..... Doc, you are right and I agree with you, but let's look at other examples on other large fisheries and do our best to educate so it does not happen here. Especially if it takes a good two years to get something done. The fish are vulnerable on the upper lakes at that time of year and more and more people are learning to target them. How long does a person think that will last? | |||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Doc, I don't waste too much time with guests these days.., Although I would differ a bit on your opinion that the adult population is "down" There are a mess of 22-24" fish in the system and a huge portion of those are 10 year old females. Take a few moments and review the numbers of years past particularly the time between 1999 and 2001 and you should see what I am talking about! We also differ in opinion as in years past regarding a slot as the only thing I would support is a 1 fish over "?" and a daily bag that is acceptable to the DNR. At this time I see nothing that shows we need a "slot range". One thing people always seem to forget is that it is human nature to want something that is not easily achievable. Ie. the 28"er on the Wolf, a 30"er on the Fox, 5 30"er's on Erie. You see the relationship? All within reach on each body of water but it won't be handed to ya on a silver platter! Heck I'm hearin people bitchin about people that fish within the regs and take 5 jumbo perch off the bay! Jeessshhhh Maybe we should all just fish! Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | The only reason to put a slot on the system would be if it were in trouble. Its not. Secondly, most of the tournament anglers in the big tourny's (300+ boats) on 'bago are local. Eliminating the tournament would NOT lower the number of anglers on the water and it certainly won't eliminate the pressure on the system. Without naming names and with no ill will intended, I remember seeing photos on this very site of guys who kept about 30 fish from a single trip to BDN last fall. Most of them looked to be in the 20 to 26 inch range, with a few much larger. If your going to ask if its acceptable for 800 anglers to harvest 3000 fish (less than 4 fish per angler), how do you justify 3 or 4 guys taking 30 fish out of BDN? It is good to know people care, but we do no one any good by jumping to conclusions. And we certainly aren't going to do the lakes and rivers any favors by making uninformed decisions either. Edited by Brad B 3/20/2006 12:20 AM | ||
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| Purple Skeeter |
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Member Posts: 885 | 5 guys fish 10 days and take home 30 fish, and you consider that overharvesting.... in an environment that produces an average size of 25 inches... I'm always open to a good discussion, but it sure seems like Bago is getting more and more pressure every year... but it does not seem to affect the number of Walleyes being caught.... Hats off again to Kendall and WFT for the fantastic job they are doing! | ||
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| Jim Ordway |
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Member Posts: 538 | From what I have understood, the DNR seems to think the system is doing fine. We are lucky that this system gets such close attention and care. The major complaints seem to be that their is so much forage in the system the walleyes can feed happily at will and not necessarily when we want them to. We do not need to try to create a "trophy" fishery thru a misguided slot system. The sytstem provides good sport and meals to all who are interested. Regarding the mortality, new and improved oxegenation systems can help, but the beating the fish take in transit on this rough old lake really takes it toll. Take care, Jim O Edited by Jim Ordway 3/19/2006 10:23 PM | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Purple - No, I don't think that's overharvesting. I have absolutely NO problem with what you did what-so-ever. What I said was I don't understand the concern that you have with nearly a 1000 anglers harvesting about 3 fish each, when you harvested twice that many (6 fish each) on BDN. Perhaps I am mis-reading the reasons why you started this topic in the first place. Fish are food. Not friends. | ||
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| butch |
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Member Posts: 701 Location: upper michigan | In my OPINION something that I thought might be tried to help reduce mortality is a dead fish penalty that starts off with a .1 deduction per fish for one or 2 dead fish and increase to .5 deduction per fish for a box full of dead fish. this would really get guys to thinking and force there hand to try harder to keep there fish alive. I dont know for sure if this would work but it is something to chew on. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Purple skeeter, A couple of thoughts.....First I'm curious where you obtained that info? Is there more details associated with it? I'm always interested in learning more about 'Bago. As for the health of winnebago, I think it is in good shape right now. I think for 'bago to remain a healthy fishery all depends on mother nature. Spawning success is the most influential factor on the future of Lake Winnebago. We need good high water years on the Fox and Wolf rivers so the walleyes can enjoy casual sex and reproduce. We've been fortunate to enjoy some good spawning years over the last decade. I think if we go through some dry years then and only then will we need to look at tools to help ensure fish populations on the entire 'bago system. Purple Skeeter, do not take this as picking on you, but I do think Green bay could stand more help for walleye populations and habitat restoration. I think the taking of those fish is more detrimental to the population than the number of dead fish from a tournament on 'Bago. We've seen the pictures of stringers of fish both from Bays de noc and Geanos. I strongly encourage catch and release on Green Bay, as well as large fish on 'Bago. Good Luck | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | All too often people react to dialogues like this with emotions and not scientific facts. It’s always easy for all of us to see things from our own personal perspectives and not see the total picture. It’s also human nature for all of us to be protective for our own interests. Tournament fishermen do not want to see a reduction in those opportunities. River fishermen do not want to see the quotas reduced during their peek times. Mud trollers do not want to see their options on what fish they can keep eliminated. When rules are suggested that do not effect them, they are all in favor as long as the impact benefits and does not digress their opportunities. Any time you change the rules, there should be a thorough investigation on the ramifications and possible results. These decisions should always be done by the experts with input from those that will be effected. Looking at what is done on other lakes is not always the answer. Just because a Minnesota lake has slot limits to promote trophy fish doesn’t mean that we would see more ten pound fish on our system if this practice was installed. It seems to me that I can recall a time when the DNR said that the bago strain of walleye would never produce large numbers of 30 inch fish. If my poor memory is correct, it would make no sense to put restriction in place that would do no good on a specific ecosystem. I also remember a time when the DNR was very concerned with the bait fish populations on the bago system. I recall reading reports saying that the walleyes could end up starving from lack of forage. Now, after the last few years, many of us are concerned with too much forage in the system that will make our fishing more difficult. We must always monitor the system and watch for warning signs of possible future problems. But Mother Nature always seems to have a mind of her own and does interesting things regardless of our dabbling. My personal bias suggests that there is nothing wrong with this system and it should be left alone. The populations are awesome and strong. We’ve had great hatches and the future looks bright. Why mess with a good thing? On the tournament side of things, I’m extremely disappointed to see the kill rates from those tournaments. We need better management of tournament practices by organizers and participants. I’m sure that most tournament fishermen believe that those numbers are unacceptable. Regardless of your position, I assure you that most tournament fisherman have a high regard and love for the Winnebago system. We do not come to rape and pillage the resource. We care what happens and will do whatever we can to sustain this great fishery. I believe that the mortality concerns while prefishing are unwarranted. Almost every fish is released immediately and no one wants to over fish a location that may produce a winning weight. We record, monitor and move on to other areas hoping the fish we find stay put. We would be foolish to over harvest a small pod of fish prior to any tournament. How many locals do you know who leave fish to go find fish? We do it all the time. As far as the results from the 3 tournaments posted here. I’m personally appalled and in shock. As a tournament fisherman, I believe that these numbers are unacceptable AND we all need to work together to make sure that this does not continue. Being adversaries and pointing fingers at each other does no good. We all need to work together to improve our practices and educate those who do not know how to care for the fishery. I will continue to support ANYONE who keeps legal fish while abiding by out state regulations. It’s their option and right to keep fish legally. If they are causing harm then the rules need to be changed. My only concern is that I still believe that 20% of the fishermen catch 80% of the fish. Once we get to this level and achieve this prowess, our responsibly and ethics should dictate that we can single handily hurt a fragile fish population. We should know better. With knowledge comes responsibility. Let the flogging begin. I look forward to constructive criticism but will refrain from reacting to personal attacks. | ||
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| Purple Skeeter |
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Member Posts: 885 | Jayman, I agree…Had to argue that there is always more room for improvement for either Green Bay or Bay de Noc... but where else can you catch a 7+ lb Walleye almost any day of the week from spring through fall with just a little fishing knowledge. I’d be more concerned that the commercial netting-taking place on Bay De Noc is doing more harm with the huge nets in prime Walleye territory. The number of fish that myself and the guys I fish with that were taken home last year was 1/10 of what we caught and released.... In no way did I or anyone that I fished with even come close to the number of fish that were cleaned at the tournaments held on the bay.... I would have to fish all year and keep every fish I boated to even put a dent in the number of dead fish that get cleaned.... In the last 10 years fishing on Big Bay de Noc, a good percentage of the fish we caught we lip tagged... I spoke with a Michigan DNR Warden last year that said most of the walleyes that are caught on Big Bay De Noc are planted fish similar to the salmon situation on Michigan. He said that there is little natural re-production on Bay De Noc due to water levels being so low the last 10 years... Just my 2 cents worth.. And the reason I started this post in the first place... I thought it would make an interesting discussion.... as I said when I started this post.. I have no feeling one way or another... It was just news to me the % of fish that ended up dead... never saw these numbers before. And the fish that got cleaned from the Green Bay Tournaments went to feed an incredible group of Veterans... who were very grateful indeed... They were put to good use!! Purple Skeeter Edited by Purple Skeeter 3/20/2006 3:35 PM | ||
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