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| A reliable source told me they measured and weighed a walleye recently that was OVER TEN POUNDS but was only 26 inches long. (don't remember if he said 26 and 1/4 but definately 26 inches) EUREKA!!!!!!! There's gold in them there waters!!!!!!!
Kind of shoots the no trophy potential theory in the waders.
Believe it, or not.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 3/31/2006 6:06 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Not really Doc,
You know as well as I do that it's a female full of eggs. Show me some 30 inchers and I'll believe that ten pounders can become common.
I guess a trophy is in the eye of the beholder or person trying to make a point 
I'll give you this, I do see more 25-26" fish in the system than I did years ago. But not being a scientist, I do not know if that's because the system is getting better or I am
Edited by Sunshine 4/1/2006 7:07 AM
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| Dennis, sometimes you make me wonder. You say; "I guess a trophy is in the eye of the beholder or person trying to make a point." Or the person trying to make a point? Since when would a 10 pound fish of 26 inches OR fish of that "build" in a 28 inch fish, (which would have to weigh well over 10 pounds, maybe even 12) NOT be a trophy. Isn't the trophy fishing considered best on all bodies of water, in fall and spring when the fish are full of eggs? OH, I guess I don't fish tournaments, so I'm not be as well traveled as you, therefore I don't know what a real trophy is.   Didn't know 30 inchers had to be COMMON for a body of water to be considered trophy potential waters.
I will give you this, obviously the system is in much better shape then it was years ago.
My main question for the post was, is a 26 inch fish that weighed OVER 10 pounds from the Winnebago system a real fish or a fish story? |
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| It does sound a little "fishy" doesn't it? Some of them can be real footballs but it does seem to be little short to join the 10# club. I guess I would side with the skeptical, and perhaps the jealous because I don't have the bragging rights on that one
Over the last couple of years, I have had folks that I consider to be good fisherman tell me that in prefishing that they have caught 30" fish. If they were BS'n me, they are good at it. I wonder if anyone recalls that last time a 30" fish was brought in to a tourney?
Take care,
Jim O
Edited by Jim Ordway 4/1/2006 9:56 AM
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Location: Darboy USA | They shocked some 30" eyes in the bayou near out raft this afternoon. Lots of mid 20's also and some males. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | So Doc,
When you catch that fish in two weeks and it weighs 7 pounds, is it still a trophy fish from a fishery that has the potential of producing consistent trophy fish?
I guess us well traveled tournament fishermen have a different gauge when it comes to trophy fish. My worldly travels tell me that most people consider a 30" walleye at 10 pounds + a trophy. But I know that you knew that.
I was reacting more to your inference that “it kind of shoots the no trophy potential theory in the waders”. That one fish doesn’t mean that this fishery has trophy potential unless you consider 26” fish real trophies. It may be a trophy for the wolf but us worldly guys know that in most areas it’s just considered a nice fish………….. but again, I know that you knew that.
Congrats to the guy who caught it especially if it is your personal best.
A 26” fish pushing ten pounds seems to be more and more common at De Pere this time of year. It’s very possible on the Wolf.
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| Every 26" fish that I have bothered to weigh has been an ounce or two either side of six pounds. I'm not a biologist so this is only opinion but a fish 66 per cent heavier than average is a little hard to believe without seeing. Even full of eggs and with the abundant forage that weight is tuff to buy. I do hope that my gut feeling is wrong! If true all the positive info on our system is true in spades. |
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| So Dennis, when I catch that fish last fall is it a trophy?? Your worldly view is not good enough my good friend. I have always thought that a system capable of giving an angler a chance a breaking the ten pound "ceiling" was considred trophy potential. So all those guys who took 28+ inch fish from the Bay of Green Bay during ice fishing, or trolling the shore lines in the spring or fall when they are full of eggs, should take the mounts off the wall because they are not trophy's.
I would have to say YOUR "most people" are tournament anglers but MOST PEOPLE are not tournament anglers and IMHO I feel MOST anglers would consider ANY ten pound fish a trophy. Your two weeks theory obviously applies to LOTS of supposed trophy fish caught at DePere too, many under 30 inches. The "trophy fishery" slot limit of one fish over 28 inches should be changed to a more worldly 30 inches then I guess.
By the way, true story on the 26 inch fish. It was shocked and measured by KK in Eureka. ALSO, my friend, I have seen a few legendary fish over the years over 30 inches and over 13 pounds. Probably the same length to girth ratio as the big fish Kendall measured. If we have a system in place that protects the females during ANY point of their life, the potential for more of those fish increases, period.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/2/2006 8:57 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I’m really glad to hear that they shocked some 30" eyes and that Doc has seen a few fish over the years over 30 inches and over 13 pounds. These observations are good signs of a possible ability to have a real trophy fishery.
If KK sees these kinds of fish in the system and feels that with the right harvesting quota’s they could become the norm, I would be inclined to favor such a ruling. HOWEVER, I’m still a little hesitant to condone such a practice until the experts decree that it’s good for the system and not detrimental. I’m starting to hear more and more “experts” suggest that the really big girls should be removed from some systems because they do very little for reproduction and are nothing more than roaming feedbags. We should always be careful for what we ask for. Trying to create a better trophy fishery could end up being more harmful to the system if it has ill effects on the overall reproduction success. I’ll assume that my concerns are a mute point now because of the over abundance of forage that appear to be in the system. Would we alter this negatively if we artificially changed the makeup of the population by keeping a larger population of big fish in it?
Has KK addressed this issue/concern? Did anyone hear his last presentation?
Doc, I agree that if we have a system in place that protects the females during ANY point of their life, the potential for more of those fish increases. I’d still like to hear more about the long term effects. What are the DNR projections for this scenario? We all like catching the really big fish but are we our own worst enemies? What we want and what is best for the overall fishery may not be the same. What are the facts and projections?
Does anyone have any slides/PowerPoints from KK that shows the age of fish over 26”. And what is the life expectancy for fish in this system. Are fish over 26” or 28” or 30” still adding to the gene pool? Are they still successfully spawning? And if they are spawning, what percentage of their eggs successfully hatch? Anyone have any answers?
Doc, please keep us posted on anything you hear about the locks. I'm assuming that the media up there will have a better handle on what is happening. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I went to the FOCUS meeting and saw Kendal's presentation on the Bago system.
We actually spent a lot of time on a second presentation about invasive species, intended to raise awareness of the threats that exist in the Bay of Green Bay, that could get into Bago from boats. Boats not just coming from the proposed opening of the Fox Locks, but from fisherman's boats also. The scenario is if a person fishes the bay and keeps fish or bait in a livewell or baitwell and "releases" that water into Bago. What ever is in that water can get into the Bago system, this includes water in the bilge. It caused me to rethink what I do.
As far as the trophy question, it did come up. One of the theories is summer water temperature and how it affects metabolism and life expectancy. I know there are big walleyes in southern reservoirs, but those fish have access to deep cooler water. Just a theory for others to shoot at.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Thanks Bob.
Good info.
Our shallow water and the warm summer temps are something to think about. |
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| The DNR has shocked very FEW fish over 27" in the system actually the first one was last year I believe at 28". I may be mistaken but I thought it was aged at 17 years. Not to say that they aren't in the system. but definately are not abundant in any form or fashion!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Dennis, first, I personally never said it should be managed as a trophy fishery but I have said that I personally would like to see less or no pressure on the females pre spawn. My refrence to these fish is in response to the comments about the Winnebago system not having trophy potential. That's what any coversation gets turned in to here, a debate on trophy potentail etc etc. Trophy potential of the system might not even be part of any consideration to protect the spawning females but MY point is that IMHO, anything done to protect the pre spawn females is good.
Tyee, I believe your information is flawed. Remember, I get to go in the shocking boat too and have pictures of fish bigger the 27 inches from the two previous years. Also, the bigger fish are much harder to stun because of their size and also tougher to net. That makes for very few fish in that situation. Kendall told me that they could turn the "juice" up higher to get those fish but it could be detramental to the smaller fish. We see quite a few BIG fish on the edge of the shocking range each time I've gone. I also personally have caught numerous fish over 27 inches the last ten years. When I get 10 in a night and dozens a year, I'm either very lucky or very good if there are FEW fish that size in the system. OBVIOUSLY there are few based on total numbers and OBVIOUSLY we are talking about things new because of habitat improvement and a strong farage base that have turned the "cigar Factory" of the 70's in to the fishery it is today. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Doc,
I'm disheartened………although I really enjoy our debates, it appears that we are on the same page. Hopefully, we can encourage others to continue this important dialogue.
Anything that can be done to protect the pre-spawn females is good with me. Thinking out loud, I wonder if we could create a way of letting the spawn occur without interference?
Any suggestions on how we can accomplish this? My first gut reaction is to have catch and release only until after the spawn. Giving this scenario a little more thought makes me wonder about the stress an egg laden female incurs when caught by traditional methods. Makes me wonder if research has been done by the DNR to determine the spawn success of females after being caught and returned to the water.
Anyone know if this type of research has been done?
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| I would like ask a question, and maybe make a point, at the same time. Does it matter at all, when a female is taken from the system? Prespawn, post spawn, summer, winter? I figure it really doesn't, in the grand scheme of things. When a female is harvested, we lose her for every year after. |
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Location: Berlin | "HOWEVER, I’m still a little hesitant to condone such a practice until the experts decree that it’s good for the system and not detrimental. I’m starting to hear more and more “experts” suggest that the really big girls should be removed from some systems because they do very little for reproduction and are nothing more than roaming feedbags."
I have heard KK say this exact same thing a number of times and I have to agree. The thousand people fishing every weekend are here for food, not a trophy. Keep the numbers and who cares about the trophies. The winnebago system will never even come close to GB for size. The two are so close that you know where to go for numbers and trophies. Kendal, if you are reading this, keep up the good work. Fishing is better for me then it has ever been. I am even catching more and more saugers. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Shep,
That is the age old question. Here’s another way of looking at it. If a female is fortunate to make it to spring and is full of eggs, it's a bit of an ignominy not to allow her a couple of more weeks of life to finish the cycle of life. In the grand scheme of things, if we allowed those females one additional spawn before harvesting it does make a difference.
The unfortunate part of any discussion concerning issues like this revolves around personal sacrifice. Most people do not want to relinquish or surrender opportunities that they have enjoyed in the past. The spring fisherman sees no harm in what he or she does and doesn’t want change if it affects their fishing. Same can be said for the ice fisherman, late fall trollers or tournament fishermen. If it doesn’t effect our own plans and proves to be beneficial for the fish, we’re all for it. But if I have been taking a weeks vacation for the last 15 years in April to fish the prespawn bite I’m mad as hell that someone suggests taking away my opportunity. That’s usually when the emotions and name calling starts.
I’m not suggesting that you are apart of any of scenario’s above. I’m just assuming where this thread is headed after your comments.
I’ll go back to my original comments from a couple of weeks ago. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If it is broke, make sure that you use scientific study to determine the cause and the cure. If you implement a change make sure that you educate the sportsman about the benefits and include them in the discussion.
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| 2 cents.
To answer the question: What is the life expectancy? The Avg is 12 years on the winnebago system. My opinion....that is a limiting factor on "trophy" potential.
One other thought, I believe 'bago fish are VERY prolific spawners. As tough as it is to catch prespawn females in the river, the ones I have seen over the years are extremely egg laden and large. I believe it would be possible for a 10# 26" fish, not typical, but possible. It's a night and day difference between a 23" prespawn fish and a 23" post spawn fish. I can't say for fact, but I'd guess a 23" fish will weigh almost half it's weight after it spawns. Maybe KK has some data on this? |
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| Here's what I feel is bad. Two Fremont tournaments last weekend. BOTH catch and kill events, not set up for live release. Posts all over the Internet about jerk drivers with ribbons on their bow, I witnessed this myself, and pictures on web sites of big egg laden females destin for the gut bucket. ALL for the sake of selling more beer. SO, some small boat anglers swearing they'll never come back to the Wolf on a weekend just because some bar wants to have a good day at the till. So a bar in Fremont has a negative effect on the entire river. A slot limit would limit this in some ways.
Another scenario going on right now. Big Whopper Weekend approaches and there are locals keeping big females in tanks for the event. All for the sake of a trophy. It's well known that this cheating goes on but it's tolerated because it's only for a bragging rights trophy. Big Whopper has a 3 DAY STRINGER TROPHY. So they say the event is usually post spawn but if you've seem the carnage I've seen, it's disgusting. SO, more tournaments THIS weekend where more guys will drive like total jerks and more females will be killed in the good cause of selling beer and more anglers in small boats will be driven off the water, some never to return, so one or two establishments can make some extra money. THEN I get eye witness reports of a few tournament anglers going out after the event to catch more fish (double bagging)
Sorry folks but I for one am working hard to limit or end the pre-spawn events or add a slot limit to protect the females. Sure, it was only 100 of the 2000 boats out there, but there are ZERO positive effects for these events other then to sell more beer at the host bar.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 4/4/2006 10:50 AM
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| Doc,
I'm sorry but you are off the mark. You're anti-tournament sentiment is getting, quite frankly, tiring. I was one of those "jerks" that you so cited. I don't ever recall those tournaments being forced to catch and kill. In fact I released our fish along with some others that chose so. Why? Because maybe not all of us our meat hogs and must keep everything we catch. Perhaps some of us enjoy fishing just to be fishing. Now weather it be in a competitive situation or not, is really our perogative. Bragging rights is always fun to have. Similar to you posting pictures of big fish caught on the internet, what is the true intent? To show people you can catch fish or for bragging rights of the big fish your buddy/"client" caught? Let's call a spade a spade shall we?
Secondly, how does your "expert" opinion rate above others of this website? Do you have more expertise on the wolf river system because you have a "friend" on the DNR staff? If Kendall doesn't support a slot limit, why insist that we need this? Why does the winnebago system have to be a "trophy" fishery?
Good day, Sir.
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | I was gonna keep my mouth closed on this one, but I simply can't any longer.
Changed my mind... yes I can.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:38 AM
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Removed by me.
Edited by Brad B 4/7/2006 11:39 AM
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | The biggest issue between tourney anglers and "recreational fishermen" is that a few ego driven jerks ruin it for everybody. I fish a tournament trail and fish 3-5 times a week for fun. I've kept maybe 10 Walleyes in the last 2 years. I keep what I can eat, only when I want them. I don't see the point in freezing them, they're not as good frozen (plus it gives you a reason to go when you need some). There are bad eggs in tournament fishing, but go meet the anglers at the weigh-ins you'll be surprised how many of us honest hard working people there are. Some of us don't fish for money, we fish to be the best at our level. To me, that's what it's all about, not having the biggest boat, not having the best sponsors, not taking the most fish home, and certainly not to be an angling god.
The vast majority of anglers on the circuits I fish love live release tournaments. Nobody seems to raise a stink when we catch fish on the Wolf during a tourney and 30 locals pull up an anchor around you. I suppose that's OK because they're from the area. Everybody wants to complain about the tournament anglers, but nobody wants to say "Gee thanks for telling us at your weigh in where and how you got those fish, now I can go catch them like that tommorow". I think the worst thing that us tourney anglers do is show locals how to slaughter these fish. So yeah, maybe everything is our fault.
Sorry for bringing our money into your communities.
Sorry for bringing new lures and tactics to your water.
Sorry for thinking outside the box when on the water.
Sorry for taking the time to talk to the kids at the weigh-ins.
Sorry for writing the articles that bring tourists into your area.
Man, this makes us all look terrible doesn't it? |
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| "I think the worst thing that us tourney anglers do is show locals how to slaughter these fish."
Don't flatter yourself sir. Most tournament anglers learn or have learned
their tactics or techniques from local recreational anglers who usually
keep their mouths shut. Then the "Pro's" come along and lay claim to
these amazing new techniques, spreading the word far and wide.
Local anglers fished with Flies for a long time before the pros caught on.
Tournament anglers didn't invent fishing the cane beds.
The local recreational anglers have known how to "slaughter" the fish
for a long time, most choose not to share that knowledge knowing the
damage it can cause. You sir have taught them nothing.
Take your money elsewhere. I'll teach my kids how to fish, thanks.
I liked fishing the Winnebago system much better before all the
tournaments came to town.
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Location: LaCrosse, WI | I never said that I personally taught your kids anything Are you saying that spinner rigs,spoons, planer boards, crankbaits, snap weights, dipseys, jets, line counters, and all that other stuff was invented on Winnebago?
My whole argument here is that a few bad apples give the rest of us a bad rap. However, rude errogant locals are no better. Maybe what we need is to respect each other. I just get sick of everyone assuming I'm going to kill all of "THEIR" fish because I have a sponsor shirt on. This kind of steryotyping makes people no better than racists. The thought that I'm an inferior being because I fish tourneys is narrow minded and plain silly.
I've fished Bago many times and thrown back every fish I've caught, or released live after weigh in. I do this because I think those fish could be caught and enjoyed by a kid some day. If that's not enough, too bad. I do my part, I try to teach others to as well and I'm proud of it. Belittle me all you want, but I try hard to do the right thing. Sorry that you've had bad experiences in the past, but that wasn't me. |
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