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| Probably not the right place for this but I wanted to discuss this in a civil manner, with people I am familiar with. It is a very touchy subject and a few family members are very concerned about hunting next year. Both of these guys had hunting licenses I'd like to know how they got them? One is a Fellon the other can't speak english. Do you think about it when you go in the woods now like I do? Does it affect the way you hunt?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | It's a real good system we have here, isn't it. Fortunately, I hunt on private land, if I had to hunt on public land, I don't think I would be hunting.
I don't understand how this happens. I bought my daughter a 20 guage shotgun for Christmas, next year will be her first year hunting, After filling out the paperwork and waiting for a background check, it was almost an hour later, don't get me wrong, i'm not against it, but then you have two guys, or I should say at least one guy that shouldn't be carrying a gun, because he is a felon, it's against the law, and another guy that can't speak english.
It's unfortunate that someone died, again. I better stop here, before I dig myself a big hole. We will never know exactly what happened.
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| we cannot blame the young guy for not speaking english. its a free country. i have to blame the gutless fool that lost his right to bear arms. there is no room for hatred in my family. then to go as far as trying to hide the body and shooting himself in the hand for a self defence claim. now he's going down for murder. what if it was you or a friend that crossed paths with this low life? |
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| "we cannot blame the young guy for not speaking english. its a free country."
Perhaps it's time we make it so, that people need to speak english. Official language. Then it can be law and not speaking english would not be an excuse in cut and dried cases. "Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law." |
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| No excuse for the felon in any way shape or form. However, I disagree with Guest regarding it being a free country and not speaking english. I would guess if he could not speak english then he probably can't read english either.
How did he read and understand the hunting regulations?
How are signs like "No Trespassing" and "Private Property" read by him?
It's a free country, absolutely, but there has to be an obligation to be able to understand and converse in the native tongue.
I am getting sick of the majority needing to conform to the minority. Not only in language barriers but other areas of society as well such as religion (ex: Christmas must be called a "Winter Holiday" so as to not upset a small group of people). Not going to go any further with this here.
It is sad that this has happened, but in light of the recent situations it is not a huge surprise. Very sad...
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Location: Darboy USA | I'd have to agree with concerned hunter as well. Hunting is a privelage, not a right because you live in the USA. Every single person in the wood should have hunters safety, be able to read and understand regulations, signs, etc.
However, I also agree with how the heck did a felon get a gun in the first place? He shouldn't have been there and it seems pretty obvious what his intent was if he hid the body, at this point speculation, but seems pretty far fetched that the other hunter fired first.
As far the the original post, I am not worried because I hunt private land, but if I was hunting public land, it would only be in certain parts of the state where things like this "usually" don't happen. Have seen some of these guys walking in the woods with a .22 rifle and am actually scared after seeing them fire off shot after shot at movement or something furry in the tree. |
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| Guest - 1/9/2007 5:20 AM
we cannot blame the young guy for not speaking english. its a free country.
Depends on how long he has been here. Also, it depends on if he is a resident, a citizen or a non-resident hunter?
If he is citizen, then I have a problem with it.
If he is a citizen enough to get a hunting license he should be citizen enough to have learned some english.
If he is a non-resident hunter, but a felon, then he slipped through the system, or the system is flawed.
IMHO.
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | shink - 1/8/2007 11:55 PM
It's a real good system we have here, isn't it. Fortunately, I hunt on private land, if I had to hunt on public land, I don't think I would be hunting.
shink.
Didn't that Vietnamese Mung Immigrant from Wisconsin shoot 5 people and kill 4 that were unarmed including one woman, from their own private tree stand on their own private land 2 years ago? Private don't seem to mean what it did 20 years ago. 
Edited by walleye express 1/9/2007 12:55 PM
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | yes Dan, they were on private land, but it butted up against public land. I do agree with you that it's not like it used to be. I was up last week, and there was snow on the ground, now I'm the only one that has permission tohunt this land, In two separate areas, I saw foot prints from other people.
I called the landowner, to see if he was up there. It wasn't him. It just blows me away, that people can trepass like that.
The reason I say I feel safe, is because, I know all the neighboring land owners, and there is no public land near the land I hunt.
I have spoken with a couple wardens here in WI. they do say the worst violators are the mungs, in both hunting and especially fishing. |
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Location: Manitowoc, WI | I hunt public land and I find my instincts I acquired during 8 years of Special Forces coming into play a lot more while in the woods. I didn't think it would come to this but I have a family and don't want to ruin their lives by getting shot by some lunatic. Now don't get me wrong, I am a peaceful and caring person. Just don't piss me off by shooting at me! |
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| lets let the story come out and then make judgement. does one not speaking english deserve to get shot and killed? if you think this way then lets organize and start a revolution and take back our country. |
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| According to the newspaper article, Vang came from Thailand 2 years ago and spoke little to no English. The paper also stated "Hunters are NOT required to speak English to receive a license in Wisconsin, although they must prove Wisconsin residency and have taken a certified hunter's safety course if they were born after Jan. 1, 1973."
I would think being able to communicate with other hunters would be a major part of "Hunter's Safety"....
Dave S |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | My sympathy goes out to any family that loses a father and husband because of a senseless murder regardless of his nationality and his ability to speak English. This type of senseless tragedy is very disgusting regardless of who is involved.
I agree, wait a little for the full report before you make a fool out of yourselves. Too many assumptions are starting to be made.
To answer the original question.
Tyee everyone should think about the idiots out there before entering the woods. I quit hunting years ago for various reasons but this type of scenario is one reason why I spend all my time in the boat. You give idiots guns and people die occasionally, accidentally or on purpose.
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Location: Menasha | "My sympathy goes out to any family that loses a father and husband because of a senseless murder regardless of his nationality and his ability to speak English. This type of senseless tragedy is very disgusting regardless of who is involved"
Well said Sunshine! |
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Location: Elgin, Illinois | Dennis,
As is usually the case I find myself in total agreement with you... Given the excellent history of what appears in the media of any kind I am of the opinion that when I read the newspaper I can count on the fact only that they had paper and ink... anything else is subject to being incorrect or incomplete... |
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Location: Rhinelander | I find it interesting that when someone commits a crime (especially murder) in the woods it's a huge surprise and a shock to so many, yet so many people are murdered in this country every day it's insane. People are killed for no reason whatsoever it seems some days, over as little as a parking space.
As sportsmen and women, we expect that somehow folks will be 'different' when on the water and in the field, and thankfully, most times they are. People will, however, be people, and generally do some pretty shocking things to each other. |
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Location: McFarland, WI | I agree with Sworrall on this one. Murder creates sadness whenever and wherever it occurs. My NRA cynicism makes me look for the agenda being promoted by making this such a big story. Media loves to use emotion to create and promote an agenda and I see gun control legislation all over this story. Sadly recent research has shown that our choices are influenced more by emotion than rational thought. (recent Scientific American if you want a reference) |
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Gun control shouldn't be an issue in this matter. The shooter was a felon, he would not have been able to purchase a firearm.
As Steve said in an earlier post, murders happen every day, do you think those killers go into a sporting goods store and purchase a firearm? The answer to that question, is NO.
All gun control does, is hurt the law abiding citizens.
We will never know the whole story on this, we will only hear one side.
From my point of view, it pisses me off, that this felon, was in the woods with a gun, which by law, he was not entitled to have. That has nothing to do with gun control, that has to do with some idiot giving this guy a gun. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Shink:
You say: "Gun control shouldn't be an issue in this matter. The shooter was a felon; he would not have been able to purchase a firearm. "
What media reporting or police reports have you been reading? Who has reported that he bought a gun? Who has reported that he had a gun in the woods? I'd like to read those articles.
All I've read was that he had a knife during the episode and that they confiscated a gun later from his home. Have you read different reports or are you making assumptions?
It would be interesting to see if other media sources are saying different things.
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| Please keep an open mind about this. Like Sunshine said I do not believe we know if he did have a gun on him while in the woods. I believe there is more to this than we know right now. |
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Location: Darboy USA | Dennis,
The AP and Appleton Post Crescent today are saying his girlfriend said he was out squirrel hunting with a 12 gauge when he was shot in both hands by the other hunter. Allegedly, he then stabbed the man after he felt his life was in danger.
Kind of an interesting twist now that the girlfriend steps in. Sounds fishy to me though as his story changed 3-4 times when questioned at the hospital.
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Dennis, Darboy answered your question. And I mentioned Gun control, because Larrys mentioned it in his post.
We will never know what really happened out there.
A lot of hunters out there have a real hatred for what happened a few years ago, with the Chai Vang thing. Killing all those hunters in cold blood.
I"m not making excuses for this guy, or saying what happened in right, but if you remember the hmong communitee was making Chai Vang out to be a hero, and that is why there is such hatred out there. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | hmmmmmmm............
Interesting, Milwaukee Journal never mentions a fire arm. Now before you jump all over me. I know it says that he was hunting. But they never say or mention that he had a fire arm. Why? Who knows what this guy was doing or thinking?
As my good friend Greg Meyer will agree with............ You do not bring a knife to a gun fight! ............ Right Greg?
Here is the MJ article in it's entirety...............................
Marinette - The fiancée of a squirrel hunter arrested after the weekend death of a Green Bay hunter said Tuesday that he told her he was shot in both hands by the other man during a confrontation and ended up stabbing the man.
"Jim got shot once in his right hand and then he got shot once in his left hand and then they fought," James said Tuesday night from her Marinette home. "All Jim told me was that he stabbed the guy and he didn't know if he killed the guy."
Nichols, 28, was arrested after he showed up at Bay Area Medical Center in Marinette shortly before 7 p.m. for treatment of the wounds. James, who met Nichols several years ago, said Nichols was afraid for his life during the confrontation.
"He was terrified. He didn't know what to do or what was going to happen," James said.
Nichols told her he was walking through the area looking up at the trees for squirrels when he met up with Cha Vang, 30, of Green Bay, a Hmong father of five who emigrated from a Thai refugee camp two years ago.
James said Nichols told her, "I had this guy come up behind me and I told him he was molesting my hunt and scaring the squirrels away, go find someplace else to hunt. He couldn't speak English, and he started yelling."
On Monday, Vang's family said that Cha Vang was a kind person who helped others. They said he didn't speak English and that it's unlikely he could provoke anyone.
Nichols was remorseful about Vang's death, James said.
"He was really upset about that. He was terrified for himself and he was terrified for the other guy."
Nichols remained in the Marinette County Jail on Tuesday on a probation hold pending charges in the slaying of Vang, whose hunting party reported him missing Friday. His body was discovered Saturday.
Authorities have declined to reveal a motive in the case and would say only that Vang and Nichols were both hunting small game on public land in the town of Peshtigo.
Earlier, Marinette County Sheriff James Kanikula said that Nichols' story to investigators "changed three or four times."
Nichols is on probation after serving a prison term for a string of cabin burglaries more than a decade ago. In one of the Marinette County cabins he burglarized, Nichols spray painted "KKK" and a derogatory term toward African-Americans, according to court records.
Whether racial overtones will play a part in the homicide charges is unknown. Marinette County District Attorney Brent DeBord, who was sworn in last week, was not talking to reporters Tuesday.
Nichols' fiancée said he's not racist and that Friday's events had nothing to do with the killings of six hunters in Sawyer County in 2004 by a Hmong man from Minnesota.
"He didn't harbor animosities toward anyone, and I think I would know. I'm his fiancée," James said. "Jim's not racist. He's not. He's got friends in just about any ethnic group he's come across."
Nichols was sentenced to 10 years in prison for a burglary spree in the summer of 1996 in which he and a 15-year-old boy broke into half a dozen cabins in the towns of Amberg and Athelstane in central Marinette County. In most of the burglaries, a fire extinguisher was sprayed throughout the cabins. Other criminal damage included plugging a sink drain and turning on a faucet to flood a cabin, filling a toilet with toothpaste and pretzels, smashing a TV, shooting windows with a BB gun and filling a bathtub with gasoline, oil, detergent and other liquids.
One of the cabin owners reported that someone used red spray paint on his kitchen counter, living room, ceiling and bedroom door. The letters "KKK" and a racial slur were painted on the bedroom door and kitchen counter, according to the criminal complaint.
Nichols, who was born in Iron Mountain, Mich., and dropped out of Wausaukee High School after his sophomore year, was arrested after his car struck a deer and overturned. A deputy sent to the accident noticed stolen items in Nichols' car.
A man who answered the door Tuesday morning at the Amberg address where Nichols lived at the time of the burglaries said "we don't want to talk right now."
At his sentencing in 1997, Nichols apologized to his victims. He told authorities he committed the burglaries to get money. Among the stolen goods was beer, liquor, fishing equipment, electronics, tools and compound bows.
After pleading no contest to three counts of burglary and one count of criminal damage, Nichols was sentenced to prison followed by 10 years of probation and ordered to pay more than $30,000 in restitution. While in prison, Nichols earned his GED.
He was released in February 2002, said state Department of Corrections spokesman John Dipko. Nichols moved to Marinette and then Peshtigo after his release.
James, who met Nichols through mutual friends, said her fiancé has tried to lead an exemplary life since getting out. He has a job and was considering going to school. They planned to get married in a few years.
"He's trying so hard to prove to everybody that even though he did something bad when he was younger that he's not a bad guy," James said.
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Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | I got it from cnn.com, at the bottom is says both were small game hunting with firearms. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | hmmmmmmm............
Aaron, I did a search and found www.postcrescent.com
Toda’s article says James Nichols is in custody on an unrelated probation hold. No charges have been filed in connection to Vang’s death.
I also found the article about the fiancee report. She never mentioned a fire arm in the article. I have included that article for your review.
In a press release issued today, Marinette County Dist. Atty. Brent DeBord said the initial investigation into the death of Cha Vang, 30, is completed and the information gathered by investigators is being reviewed.
Vang, Green Bay, went missing while hunting with friends in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area late Friday. His body was found Saturday and a person of interest — James Nichols, 28, of Peshtigo — is in custody on an unrelated probation hold. No charges have been filed in connection to Vang’s death, which has been deemed a homicide.
This statement was included in the release issued today:
“While the preliminary investigation of the Vang homicide has been completed by law enforcement, my office, in coordination with the Office of the Attorney General, is still compiling reports and reviewing the results of the preliminary investigation,” said DeBord. “To release information at this time could hinder the investigation. The person of interest in this matter is currently being held on other matters. This provides us with the opportunity to more thoroughly investigate the matter prior to a final charging decision.”
DeBord continued, “Wisconsin State Supreme Court Rule 20:3.6 governs the ethical obligations attorneys — including District Attorneys — have when dealing with pre-trial and trial publicity. Because of this rule, the District Attorney’s office cannot discuss details of the case prior to charging. These rules also require that a District Attorney ensures that law enforcement agencies also comply with these restrictions. Even after charging, the District Attorney cannot discuss matters not described in the public record.”
“I understand the public’s right to know and their desire for information. I cannot state with any certainty when charges will be filed. My office is working closely with Sheriff’s Department investigators and reviewing all information generated from the investigation as quickly as possible. This is a very serious matter and needs to be handled correctly from the beginning. I would ask for the public’s continued patience and understanding.”
“Marinette County is a rural county with limited resources. The men and women of the various law enforcement agencies involved in this investigation are to be commended for compiling as much information as they have in such a short period of time. I would also like to thank Sheriff Jim Kanikula for his efforts in educating the public in this matter.”
Man stabbed hunter after confrontation, fiancee reports
The Associated Press
WAUSAU — A man jailed in the death of another hunter was shot once in each hand before he stabbed the victim with a knife, the suspect's fiancee said Tuesday.
Dacia James said she was the first person that James Nichols of Peshtigo talked to after the incident that killed Cha Vang, 30, of Green Bay, late Friday afternoon in a public hunting area just south of Peshtigo.
James, 20, said Nichols, 28, indicated to her that he acted in self-defense after being shot in the hands.
"There was a verbal confrontation first," James said in a telephone interview from her home in Marinette. "Jim told me that he had stabbed the guy. That is all I know."
Marinette County Sheriff Jim Kanikula has released few details of the investigation into Vang's death, other than it occurred after an "accidental meeting" between Vang and another hunter.
The sheriff did not immediately return a telephone message Tuesday seeking comment on what James said.
Nichols didn't immediately report the incident to police because he panicked and was frightened because he was on probation for burglary, James said. But Nichols, after seeking medical care with James at his side, helped investigators try to locate Vang's body within hours after the incident, James said.
Vang's body was found Saturday partially concealed in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area.
His wife has said he spoke no English and could not have provoked an attack.
Nichols has not been charged in the slaying but was jailed Saturday on a probation violation as a felon in possession of a firearm related to the punishment for 1997 burglary convictions.
Kanikula has said Vang was slain but has not revealed the cause of the death on the advice of the state attorney general's office, which is involved in the investigation.
The incident involving Vang, who is Hmong, has threatened to re-expose racial tensions in the northwoods.
His death came a little more than two years after Hmong immigrant Chai Soua Vang, 38, of St. Paul, Minn., killed six white hunters and injured two in northwestern Wisconsin.
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