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| Message Subject: mercury union vote | |||
Self employed |
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| Everyone in America is given the same chance to succeed. We are all responsible to create our own security for ourselfs and our families. You can solve all your problems by becoming self employed. You can set your own hours (I worked 70 hours a week for the first 10 years), you can decide your own pay level, you can decide how much insurance you want, you can decide how much vacation you want to go fishing. But you must make sacrifices like: keeping your head up and continuing to ask for help when things get rough. Never giving up despite what everyone else tells you. Believing in yourself when everyone else tells you you’re crazy. The biggest reward, knowing you are 100% in control of your future and no one can tell you what, when, where, how much you get paid. People have forgotten this is the land of opportunity; they sit around and whine about everything when they have 90% of the opportunity given to them every day. Take a look around you, there are opportunities you pass by every day to fill a need. The question is, do you have the guts to trust yourself and go for it or are you going to let everyone else tell you it's impossible. We have become a society where everyone "expects" everything to be there every day just because it was there the day before, that's not reality, things change. Ever hear of a rainy day fund. Stop overspending and living your life like anyone owes you anything. It's not Mercury's fault the economy has fallen to historic lows. I know of 20 local businesses that have failed due to the economy. They never saw it coming and they are very smart people. Its life, pick yourself up, dust off your boots and get your ass off the couch and quit winning. It's a whole new ball game out there and just like everything else, change happens. If you want to control your own rate of pay and you build outboard motors, then find a group of investors, invest millions of dollars in a facility and then you can control everything. When the economy gets really bad, then you can decide how you want to handle your company, but until that happens, realize you play a very small part in a business that employs thousands of people and your are at the mercy of the company! | |||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | non-union - 8/22/2009 7:54 AM WOW, one plant is coming back. Whoopdee! That's offset by probably a dozen moved out of this country this month alone. THE BIG PICTURE Dennis, not isolated situations. Like I said, you're so out of touch.
Somehow I knew that I would get a response like this from you. One paper, one session of reading, I post excerpts from 4 articles that are somewhat positive. And all I get is "you're so out of touch". All I did was report what I read from today's paper and I get slammed for doing it. Argumentative aren't we? | ||
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| RedNeckTech |
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Member Posts: 319 | Don’t forget about this: MADISON - Governor Jim Doyle today announced an agreement with the Spanish train manufacturer Talgo to put two Talgo train sets into service in Wisconsin and to establish new assembly and maintenance facilities in the state. The rail car assembly plant will support the delivery of Talgo trains throughout the country. And this: Another biotech company is moving to Wisconsin from another state. Flex Biomedical, a Boston company developing treatments and diagnostic products for orthopedic diseases, says it has raised nearly $1 million in angel investments and will move to Madison. "Surprisingly, there's probably some more seed capital in Wisconsin than there is in quite a few other places," said Sal Braico, Flex Biomedical chief executive officer And this: Lured by the state's tax credits for investments in high-growth companies, a Minneapolis biotech start-up said Thursday it is moving to Wisconsin. And this: Exacto Inc. has announced that it would move to a 50,000-square-foot manufacturing facility on 30 acres in Sharon, Wis. Jobs are coming to Wisconsin, maybe not as fast as they are leaving right now, but they are coming. Don’t discount the companies that moved here in the past 8 years also. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | LOOK! pro union or not! there are people in the southern and middle lower part of this country that will do the same work at the same quality (arguable yet true for the most part) For Half the pay. a 27 dollar an hour machine shop job will bay half that down south. they will have plenty of aplications and even if they pay 17 and hour they shave ten bucks in labor cost. BUT WAIT they save that in matching payroll tax , social security and will not have a pension(that destroyed GM) and offer a 401 k instead. they can still offer a health and dental at half the cost with a higher deductable and save piles and piles on heating , tax breaks and other costs due to the states offering subsidies and tiffs . This is happening all over the country with all types of manufacturing and has been for years now! Merc will move and so will many many more. We are talking about too darn much money compared to doing buisness in wisoconsin. The unions have done a lot of good but they have no power left when it comes to labor jobs. As long as there are folks that will do the job for half the pay somewhere else IN OUR OWN COUNTRY the current employe's at merc Are i hate to say it.... Over paid (sad) but true. as far as teachers i wouldnt say they are over paid at all! waistfull spending and administration has made folks bitter about the issue allong with the failing of public education in erban america. The bitterness also comes from the fact that folks are tired of how hard the teacher have it! Teachers always seem to complain and cry and the union for the teachers is always laying it on thick! just gets old when though like in the machine shop many are overpaid for what they do or produce and many at the same time are underpaid. this statistic holds true for sales and most situations shop , teachers politicans and all!! 20% of the people employed will get 80% of your work done! or be responsible for80% of your productive workload sales or results. the 80%-20% rule is a factor in our country also as 80% of our country is living on the 20% getting things done and paying taxes. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | well its the thaught that counts but the little train program comes with some back scratching and with that im guessing our state is going to push a public transit program that will in return offer this company a good contract. im sure this new state funded program will run at a major loss as all public transit projects do and require major subsodization by wisconsin tax payers that will cost way more than it produces. This is not the answer at all and is part of the cause of the problem in my mind (nothing personal) i have no clue about bio program but im sure there is a story behind this also. though i could be wrong | ||
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| RedNeckTech |
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Member Posts: 319 | Bradley894 The post was to demonstrate that there are jobs coming into this state also. No matter what the industry there are stories behind the decisions and most of the time they include the government. The state has offered money for GM and is offering Merc. to stay put. It is just the way it is and taxpayers would pay for it. It is these smaller companies with small payrolls that will be absorbing a huge number of the un-employed people….will Merc. ex-employees take the jobs….probably not at first, it is easier for many to sit on un-employment and collect $380 a week than to work a $9.50/hr job to receive it. It is the new ideas and companies that will help bring this economy around. You had a great idea on another post and if you carefully implemented it you could be the one hiring a good number of people, but one must act. Could it totally flop…sure, but it could be something big. For shits-and-grins I wanted to see if a company or idea could be implemented with a total start-up cost of $25 and to my surprise I got the whole thing thought up, marketed and implemented in a total of two weeks. It has some great backers and has gained the attention of not only other companies but also an NBC producer and a film maker. All because of the way I did it….outside the box. Mercury will not be moving out of country, just out of state. Why is it bad when someone else is willing to perform a job at a lower cost than another? If people cannot adjust to reality then they deserve to loose whatever they are going to loose. As of right now the era of making a large living off of an un-skilled job is on hold until the economy gets better. Start asking for $30/hr to turn a bolt or place a component into place when the industry is back to where it was in better times. For now swallow the union pride and deal with it like everyone else or loose the job…they have no other choice. | ||
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| Guest |
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| Just a little info for all of you out there. Merc wants to strip the employees of everything they have worked for. Merc is sugar coating everything so well for the public eye it is sicking!! Forced overtime!! Yeah that is great... unstead of calling someone back to work, lets move people around from plant to plant to cover there jobs so they can continue to collect unemployment!! Thats a good one....NOT!!! Cut the wages in half so the people working there will also be unable to pay their bills with the rest of the people laid off!!! How about the nice buy out that would MAYBE get a person though half a year if lucky!! The company is all for itself bottom line. There is not one change that the company itself is making in cuts. Lord knows that all the six figure incomes that the higher ups make are not going to see a change. They will blow anyone to keep that coming!!! The bottom line Merc will not promise the employee anything on a yes vote!! Anybody out there that doesnt believe that Merc isn't going to China is out of the loop!! Stillwater is just a good cover up and everybody is buying into it!! The company has made their mind up already!! The outcome of the vote doesnt matter at all. If this is what Merc wants to do let them go!!! I have worked there for 38 years and am sick of hearing it. Leave the people in Stillwater fix all the screw ups from China or better yet let China figure it out on their own when Mercury isnt selling anymore motors!!! If any of you had worked there this long you would fully understand because you would have witnessed it though the years!! If Mercury needs help packing I will be more then glad to help!! Maybe they will force me to do that too!!! I just hope you people out there understand that it is not the unions fault. Mercury wanted this current 4 year contract and the employees didn't. Well merc got what it wanted and once again is not happy!! If they were any kind of company they would at least finish out the current contract that was agreed upon in good faith and then make their changes...I mean this is what they WANTED to begin with. I do know one thing. When Merc moves i will be buying yamaha along with a lot of other people that i know. | |||
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| Shellback |
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| If I was a union employee, I could understand the frustration. Merc is reneging on a previous contract. What faith could you have in a company who's trying to lure you into keeping your job, with what will most probably be, false promises. Unfortunatey alot of times older union employees are more financially stable and can hold out, rejecting the contract. Younger employees don't have that option, they have homes to pay for and mouths to feed. Many jobs besides those at Merc will be lost if the contract is rejected. I think if I was a Merc employee, I'd vote for the contract for the sake of others, and move on to another job asap. | |||
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| non-union |
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| I agree with the Merc employee guest. Like I said in my first post, there's probably writing on the wall that we don't see behind our keyboards. They're untimately going to China and doing their employees like American Axle did. If they won't give any promises of staying, even one year, they're gone. Just a matter of time and they're using the American employees short-term to get them through the transition, then drop them onto the American taxpayers on their way out the door to China. I see the writing now. Vote no and let them go! | |||
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| Dale |
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Member Posts: 874 Location: Neenah, WI | Just some random thoughts from a guy who belongs to a union. Forgive me if I ramble on. Belts have been tightened all across the board. Pensions are being replaced by 401K or other investment plans. Most have some kind of employer match. Health insurance is over the top. My employer pays 80% and I pay 20%. The Mercury union wants to retain insurance benefits for retirees. That's one of the things that led to the demise of the carmakers. I've been in the paper industry for many years and have seen so many changes it'll make your head spin. I'll be 62 next month and want to retire but don't know if I can due to current conditions. I make a good wage and we are very busy with orders that are backed up. That's a nice problem to have. We, the public, don't really know what Mercs offer is. At least I don't. If top execs are making millions and they ask me for a pay cut, this would be a hard pill to swallow. If the business were willing to cut wages from top to bottom with assurances that the money would be made up as the business improves, I would take a hard look at it. Like I said at the beginning, just random thoughts. I sure don't like seeing good paying jobs lost. The people at Mercury make a great product and deserve a good living for it. If this is corporate greed it will bite Merc in the butt big time. I wish my Union Brothers and Sisters at Mercury Marine the very best!!!!!!!!!!! Keep the faith!!!!!!! Dale Frank Local 482 United Steel Workers | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I hope that it turns out the beat it can for the people............... It's easy for me and others to down play the human effects of all of this. I and others have been very philosophical about the whole thing. It's easy to do when you are not personally effected. At the end of the day, we need to remember that it about human lives and quality of life. My thoughts are with you all today. Not sure what is best for you int he long run, but I hope it happens. Anyone know what time the vote is and when they will make an announcement of its outcome? | ||
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| steve b |
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| wow i guess there is a few non-union that visit this site,but thank god only a few. all you non-union people should of bought mercury motors ,but i guess you couldn't afford them on your non-union wages! | |||
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| Eyefish |
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Member Posts: 53 | Bradley, have you ever worked out of state to know that the people in the other states will do the same amount of quantity and quality for half the wages? I think not. I've been a member of steamfitters local 400 for over 19 years and been all around the country. I will tell you this, the workforce in wisconsin in my opinion is second to none!!!! The quality and craftsmanship is unequalled to anywhere else in this country. | ||
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| RNT |
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| The majority of the country is non-union and I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar that the majority of boats, motors and all other luxury items are bought by non-union people. That type of comment doesn't further the union cause at all. | |||
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| non-union |
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| steve b, I can afford a car on my non-union wages. Tell me what the all mighty union employees at Mercury are going to be able to afford when they don't have any job because of there great union? | |||
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| steve b |
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| hey non-union cash for clunkers ends today! | |||
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| Eddie |
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| Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer??? And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here. Union Busting, plain and simple. I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor... The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them. How can they trust their employer??? It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you. It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good. | |||
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| non-union |
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Eddie - 8/24/2009 8:29 PM Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer??? And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here. Union Busting, plain and simple. I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor... The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them. How can they trust their employer??? It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you. It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good. They're smiling in Oklahoma, for now. They're just the temporary plant until it does go to China. No different than the Japanese and the auto industry. The Big 3 and union tighten their belt, the Japanese tighten theirs. Back and forth. All while So-called Americans support the practice to save a few bucks, then cry when the bucks leave town with that Japanese motor hanging on their boat. Lets hope the belt is tight enough now that the Japanese have to sacrifice quality to tighten this time and start to lose customers. If not, either the Oklahoma boys are going to have to work for near minimum wage or those jobs are going to China. Oh yeah, mark my words, the south WILL unionize soon, just like Mexico is. | |||
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| Jake |
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| All the small motors are already made in CHINA. The Union gave them that years ago. 9.9 4 stroke comes on the BOAT. Only the big outboards are made in Wisconsin. Did you ever wonder why, at one time ALL of the major small motor companys were made with-in a 60 mile radius of Fond du Lac Wisconsin??? It's the work force my freinds. They all were in WI. OMC, Techumseh, Clinton, Chilton, Wisconsin, Deere, Briggs, Kohler, Chrysler, Force, Generac, etc. All the Bigs. | |||
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| Sid |
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| How can you trust the Mercury warranty now??? Who would buy one? | |||
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| thumper |
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Member Posts: 744 | Eddie - 8/24/2009 8:29 PM Mercury Marine Busted the Union. Renig on a current four year deal that was signed last summer??? And then put a gun to their head, and say take the new deal or were out of here. Union Busting, plain and simple. I'll buy a Japanese motor before I'd buy a SCAB motor... The Stillwater people got their work cut out for them. How can they trust their employer??? It's like trusting a wife that cheated on you. It's just a matter of time now and the company will be gone for good.
Perhaps they are going to try this brand new idea called: "You come and work for us, and we will pay you money. If either of us doesn't like the arrangement, either of us can end it at any time." This model seems to be working for about eleventy billion other businesses very well. When people are paid what they are worth, and worth what they are paid, everyone is happy. There is enough competition for quality workers nowdays, that we simply don't need unions to achieve that. | ||
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| guest |
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| Who would buy one now? Right now I wouldn't because I don't trust the union people who voted themself out of a job to make anything but junk just for the spite of it. After a couple years and after all FDL people are out of the picture I might consider buying my first black motor just because I respect Mercury for standing up to the union and letting them know that they don't run the company - MErcury runs the company! | |||
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| Rich S |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | guest - 8/24/2009 10:48 PM Who would buy one now? Right now I wouldn't because I don't trust the union people who voted themself out of a job to make anything but junk just for the spite of it. After a couple years and after all FDL people are out of the picture I might consider buying my first black motor just because I respect Mercury for standing up to the union and letting them know that they don't run the company - MErcury runs the company! Even if they started making the big motors in China? | ||
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| speculation |
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| All of this talk about Mercury eventually moving everything to overseas is nothing but pure speculation and a fear tactic from the union. Where's your proof? You're being given a bag of goods that smells funny. | |||
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| Sam |
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| China, Stillwater, what's the difference? They will all be SCAB motors soon... | |||
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