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Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> mercury union vote
 
Message Subject: mercury union vote
Rich S
Posted 8/25/2009 8:18 PM (#84550 - in reply to #84549)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 2300

Location: Berlin
Sam - 8/25/2009 8:12 PM

China, Stillwater, what's the difference?

They will all be SCAB motors soon...


Stillwater is in the USA and China is not. Still american workers wether they are union or not. The workers in Stillwater had nothing to do with this. Big difference and that comment is extremely offensive.
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Sam
Posted 8/25/2009 8:40 PM (#84552 - in reply to #84550)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


So is Mercury Marine.

How could they do this to their own that made them who/what they are today, or should I say what they were.

Those men and women gave them their life.
Mercury gave them a death sentence to their dreams.

Never owed a Yamaha but will.
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guest
Posted 8/25/2009 9:48 PM (#84554 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


They won't be made by scabs they will be made by smart, reasonable people who understand that in todays world you don't vote down an offer so that you can retire early and say the hell with anybody else.

Again typical union mentality that thinks that because you worked at a factory (most likely being overpaid and taking advantage of the company any chance you got) that they owe you something. Like they owe you a job and a pension. Nobody gave there lifes to MErcury, they worked there and got paid real good for there effort.
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cranky
Posted 8/30/2009 7:19 AM (#84712 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


stacker how am I supposed to buy that $40000 tuffy with the merc motor on it if I don't make a good wage. U forgot to think of that..now did ya!! Oh ya maybe the CEO's or upper management ppl can with there 240 acres of hunting land an lake lot an what not....it works both ways....maybe fiberdome can build there boats for less an merc can there motors....u truly need to be in the shoes of the ppl voting on this contract. or hopefully the revote goes throug....I for one am union an would vote yes to keep my job. With the hope of the economy coming around and things getting better.....could say more but to know avail don't want to get blasted too hard....
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fisher 1
Posted 8/30/2009 11:17 AM (#84714 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


I guess its easy to put the blame on the union workers,but I can see why they are looking out for their pensions so close to retirement, I don't blame them.Its hard when you see CEO'S walking away with millions of dollars in bonuses. When their companys are failing now you want these guys to give up their pensions and take a 7 year pay freeze, what a joke. I bet the CEO is not taking a pay freeze. I guess thats okay because they deserve it.If Mercury really wanted to keep the jobs here they would have gave them the one day exstension.I guess its easy cast to blame when your not the one loosing your pension.Think about what you would do so close to retirement.
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Sunshine
Posted 8/30/2009 11:53 AM (#84716 - in reply to #84714)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
fisher 1:

Please help me to understand (really) How does voting no save their pensions? How would they loose the pensions if they voted yes?

Anyone know how the vote turned out? Is it binding? No news about any of this around my area.
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fisher1
Posted 8/30/2009 1:44 PM (#84718 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


You retire under the pension that is in place under the contract .They cannot change the pension until the contract is up.So if you can retire before the closing you get what was in the contract.If they would have voted yes the contract changes now,and so does the pension.Don't get me wrong I'm not happy with the outcome.But I think its two sided not just the workers.
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Sunshine
Posted 8/30/2009 2:08 PM (#84719 - in reply to #84718)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin
Thanks for the explanation fisher1. I didn't know that there was contractual language changes in the proposed new contract dealing with the pension. That was something I did not see reported in the newspaper. Ss you stated , more to the story than an outsider like myself knowes about I guess.
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TJM
Posted 8/30/2009 3:10 PM (#84720 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


From a Business owners standpoint, if you are producing a product that is NOT SELLING the management of Brunswick has no choice but to make drastic changes.
So first and foremost they are going to restructure the way these engines were made. 1) With cheaper labor. 2) Stream-ling all plants that are making the products.
3) Take advantage of the tax brakes that some states offer.

So the sooner we all realize how much financial trouble the marine industry is in. The easier it will be to understand what Brunswick is doing.

TJM
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guest
Posted 8/30/2009 6:53 PM (#84724 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


The contract proposed by Mercury would have changed the pension to a 401k based plan instead of the conventional plan. The 401k plan is dependant on the stock market.(WOW!) The conventional plan is based on years of service and average wages over a given time period. The company presented a contract they knew would never pass and therefore had no intention to stay in FDL. Some jobs will be transfered to Oklahoma, maybe the Verado line. The rest will be sent to China.
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fishn4him
Posted 8/30/2009 7:15 PM (#84725 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


I was wondering if the older employee's gave any thought about the next generation? Just some thought I only hope that they weren't to greedy.
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guest
Posted 8/30/2009 7:33 PM (#84726 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


Given the current state of the economy and Mercury's declining share of the outboard business, those employees that are currently laid off have very little if any chance of ever being called back to work. It's a very unfortunate situation. Those jobs were headed to Oklahoma and China a long time ago.
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fisher1
Posted 8/31/2009 4:02 AM (#84729 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


If you want to hear what really happened at mercury there is a article on www.onmilwaukee.com by Steve Jagler.
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Sunshine
Posted 8/31/2009 7:03 AM (#84732 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin

I'm sure ther will be lots of finger pointing.............

 

Balloting began just before offer expired

Fond du Lac — In the end, it came down to timing and a deadline.

And time was not on the side of the union of Mercury Marine Inc. after the company rejected the union's attempt at a second vote on a proposed labor contract aimed at saving hundreds of jobs.

The vote Saturday night came too late, and further delays wouldn't be fair to an Oklahoma community that's been waiting for the outboard-engine maker to move additional work there, Mercury executives said Sunday.

The company said the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Lodge 1947 should not have waited until 10 p.m. Saturday to launch a second vote on a contract proposal that expired at midnight.

"There was an entire week in which the union should have allowed its members to have a second vote, rather than wait until two hours prior to the deadline," company spokesman Steve Fleming said.

On Aug. 23, union members turned down the seven-year contract proposal that would have resulted in a wage freeze for current workers and a 30% pay cut for new hires and for employees called back to work from layoff. As a result of the vote, Mercury stepped up plans to move hundreds of jobs to its nonunion plant in Stillwater, Okla., where the company has done manufacturing for decades.

Union officials said the contract proposal was rejected by a wide margin. But some employees circulated petitions calling for a second look at the agreement before it expired, resulting in the last-minute decision for the second vote.

Voting began at the union hall in Fond du Lac about 10 p.m. Saturday, lasted until midnight, and continued on Sunday from roughly noon to 6 p.m. Then it was extended until Monday at 6 p.m., according to the union.

Mercury said it would not accept the results of ballots cast after midnight Saturday.

"People should be reminded that there was another town, that we are very compatible with, in Oklahoma anxiously awaiting the results" of the vote, Fleming said.

"Frankly, it would be unethical to tell Stillwater that there was a schedule and a set of conditions for negotiations and then throw it all out the window because the union in Fond du Lac chose not to allow its members to vote" in a timely fashion.

Union members said they were told that Mercury would allow them to take a second vote starting late Saturday night and continuing until the 850 eligible members could cast their ballots.

Union officials said that deal was arranged by public officials who acted as intermediaries between the union and the company.

"Then we were double-crossed. I feel like I have been thrown under the bus," said Dan Longsine, chief negotiator for Lodge 1947.

Union officials were reluctant to allow the second vote, saying it should not have taken place unless there were substantial changes in the contract proposal.

But under pressure from members circulating petitions, union leaders agreed to the action.

"Now I am disgusted," Longsine said. "I put my heart and soul on the line for this, and I feel as if I have been betrayed" by the company because it would not accept the results of the second vote - which might not come until Monday night or Tuesday.

"But we are fighting on," said Fred Toth Jr., one of the petition circulators. "The union has told us to keep getting more signatures on petitions, although I don't know why."

Meanwhile, Fond du Lac County officials are considering a 0.5% county sales tax to help pay for incentives meant to persuade Mercury to keep manufacturing and its world headquarters in Fond du Lac.

A total of 1,900 jobs would be lost if Mercury moved all its manufacturing and administration elsewhere.

The local sales tax would raise about $6.5 million per year for 12 years, county officials said, adding that Mercury could receive the money in the form of loans in which the amount repaid would depend on the number of jobs the company retains or creates.

The Fond du Lac County Board may take action on the proposal in the next 10 days.

"I have always said that I would save a sales tax for when it was critical. This is the time," County Executive Allen Buechel said.

At least some involved in the drama believe the final outcome is still to be decided.

"This is an end game where the goodwill will be gained or lost. There's an opportunity for both Mercury Marine and the union to gain a lot of goodwill," Fond du Lac City Manager Tom Herre said. "I remain hopeful that, at the conclusion of this, there will be an outcome that will be satisfying to all parties involved."

Herre was non-committal when asked if he would support the move to add 0.5% to the sales tax in the county to entice Mercury Marine to stay in Fond du Lac.

Mercury may have lost some community support for not accepting the results of the union's second vote.

"Some people are saying the company could have showed more flexibility," said Brenda Hicks-Sorensen, executive director of the Fond du Lac County Economic Development Corp.

But the union missed the deadline for completing the vote.

"It's like one team playing nine innings of a baseball game, and their opponent staying on the field for 12 innings," Fleming said.

Mark Johnson of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.

 

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Sunshine
Posted 8/31/2009 7:12 AM (#84733 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 2393

Location: Waukesha Wisconsin

Thanks for sharing fisher1. Here is the commentary he references.........

 

The real story behind Mercury Marine's labor collapse

Why would those union workers at Mercury Marine's Fond du Lac plant vote against the company's last contract proposal?  
By Steve Jagler RSS Feed
Special to OnMilwaukee.com



Published Aug. 26, 2009 at 2:22 p.m.

The question is being asked at dinner tables and water coolers throughout Wisconsin: Why would those union workers at Mercury Marine's Fond du Lac plant vote against the company's last contract proposal?

Why, indeed. At first glance, the consensus rejection by members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local 1947 on Sunday makes no sense. The company had flat-out threatened to leave Wisconsin for Stillwater, Okla., unless the Fond du Lac workers bent over and took substantial cuts in pay and benefits.

So, why would the Fondy workers cut their own throats? Isn't a job with reduced wages and benefits better than no job at all?

Why, indeed.

I will not try to justify the workers' vote. But I am happy to try to shed some light upon the mindset and the events that led to it.

The first thing to understand is the history that brought the Mercury Fond du Lac contract dispute to this point.

The company signed a contract extension through 2012 for the workers in Fond du Lac only last year.

"Now, they turn around and say, 'We need a complete rewrite, from cover to cover, of the contract THEY negotiated. It's union busting," said Mike King of the IAMAW. "When it's told to you across the table by a union-busting consultant (hired by the company), it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth."

In recent years, Mercury Marine had laid off about 600 people from the Fond du Lac plant and shifted production to China. The laid off employees could not participate in Sunday's contract vote.

The layoffs left the Fond du Lac plant with a senior-laden workforce. Most of the employees who still have jobs there have 25 to 30 years of experience at the plant. For many of them, retirement is on the near horizon.

Put yourself in their shoes. You are very near retirement. You are making a fine living wage. You have negotiated health care and pension benefits. The company is proposing a new contract that will slash your pay and eliminate most of your benefits, including severance pay for outgoing workers. The contract will cut benefits for retirees and will cut wages for new hires.

Even if the contract is rejected by the union, the company will need two to three years to move all of its production out of Fond du Lac to Oklahoma. If you can ride that time out, you'll walk away with the severance pay from the current contract. And then you can retire.

Or, you could take the figurative kick in the teeth -- a pay cut and loss of benefits, including severance -- and retire with less.

Union officials say the company's latest proposal is a "suicide offer."

Which option would you take?

"Mercury Marine never intended for this offer to be accepted," said IAMAW Midwest territory vice president Philip Gruber. "Despite progress on every major issue and a commitment by the IAM to continue bargaining, the company balked in the final hours and added terms and conditions that assured members would reject the offer ... Mercury Marine has been threatening these workers and this community for weeks. Some companies may hint at dire consequences as a bargaining tactic, but rarely do we see such extortion in plain view. It's unethical, it's un-American and I respect any worker who stands up and refuses to be bullied."

"They (company officials) knew these were deal-breakers. It's gut-wrenching. We really, really tried to work with them," King said.

Company officials say they already have begun the process of shifting the headquarters and production from Fond du Lac to Stillwater. Company officials said they will continue to abide by the terms of the contract they negotiated with the union last year.

The company says it is doing what it needs to do to survive in a global marketplace. The company says it must reduce its labor costs.

The company said it expects the full transition to Oklahoma to take between 24 and 36 months.

"We appreciate the patient support of our employees and communities as we've gone through this process," said Mark Schwabero, president of Mercury Marine. "This has been a very difficult and stressful process for all involved. We will work closely with our team in Fond du Lac to develop and communicate a transition plan for this 24-36 month process."

The company has said it will stand by its offer to the union until Saturday, Aug. 29. It's possible that an 11th-hour solution could emerge. But you best not hold your breath.

In the end, the company is doing what it believes it needs to do. So is the union. Unfortunately, that doesn't make the pain any less severe in Wisconsin.

 

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guest
Posted 8/31/2009 7:32 AM (#84734 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


Too bad even a reporter doesnt have the facts straight................ there is no pay cut for the long term employees but rather a freeze on raises. Thats not a paycut!
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thumper
Posted 8/31/2009 7:39 AM (#84735 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 744

What a mess.
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hgmeyer
Posted 8/31/2009 8:12 AM (#84737 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 794

Location: Elgin, Illinois
The more of this I have read, here and on other boards, blogs and artuicles; I get a sense of inevitability to the end game. Brunswick/Mercury needed an immediate cost cutting, but more importantly a long term cost cutting. In addition, apparently, Stillwater, OK was offering some incentives. In the end the "corporate" decision was to move to Oklahoma unless the Wisconsin circumstances could be made to match. The older, long time, close to retirement workers were being asked to bear a very large portion of the cost reduction.

I don't think the workers would have rejected a proposal that would have been significantly less burdensome to these workers close to retirement.

In better times Mercury/Brunswick might have had the flexibility to be more generous and offer buyouts and other incentives to older workers and move to a situation where future labor costs were less. But, no responsible management can afford to be generous when the wolf is at the door. So, maybe they, justifiably or just cautiously or even callously felt the wolf was either at the door or soon to be there (maybe even only maybe coming). My pointy here is that somewhere a "corporate" decision was made that either it was going to become immediately cheaper to be in Wisconsin or they would be in Wisconsin only as long as it takes to pack and move.

When Mercury was a family owned/managed business there would have been other factors considered. My own community has the same "problem"; the lerger employers are no long owned by those two generations back "families". And, as a result, the Easter Seal Association is no more, the Community Crisis Center is hanging by a thread, etc. It is a different world and one in which adjustments are going to have to be made. Community is not a factor in decisions made by companies competing across the globe. The view from the window of management is bigger than just the local scene. That is just a fact, not good or bad. Just reality.

Forty years ago the Elgin Watch company closed its factory here in my community and the town "almost" withered away to dust. Today, the community is twice as big and has many more, but very different, jobs. No one person or group was responsible for what happened here and I am very confident in my guess that the same holds true for the Mercury Marine circumstance.

Some guy buying an outboard motor in the Western Pacific is looking at how much it will cost to get a quality dependable outboard. He will not care that it is not being manufactured in one place or another.

We need to make drastic adjustments on how we compete in the world. Our trade policies and terms are not in tune with reality. It no longer takes years to train a machinist. Today, the replacement for experience is the CNC machine. Close tolerances are more the result of programming rather than a staedy, experienced trained, hand and eyes. In the past we could be cavalier because we had the skills to dominate, now we don't. Today, we need to reflect on how we can work the American worker into the global economy on a level playing field.

I don't know that Mercury is going to all that successful in saving enough money moving to Oklahoma. What is needed is the ability to guarantee that Oklahoma or Wisconsin can compete fairly and successfully with products produced anywhere else in the world. The cost of doing business here is very high. Safety, pollution, real estate taxes (supporting fantastic schools and social services), etc. are all cost factors not as costly in other parts of the world. Mercury/Brunswick could probably pay more in wages and benefits to their employees if those costs were the same here as in other countries. But, try to get those costs cut... no contract negotiations there... So, where can they get costs cut, immediately...labor.

Good luck to everybody involved...

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Rich S
Posted 8/31/2009 8:25 AM (#84738 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 2300

Location: Berlin
JUst had a Brad moment

Edited by Rich S 8/31/2009 8:30 AM
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Guest
Posted 8/31/2009 9:43 AM (#84744 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


Typical union line from the Milwaukee urinal. The union knew the deadline was August 29 at midnight. Mercury extended the deadline to that date after the original vote. Union did what it needed to delay a vote. This was all about the union saving face and making Mercury (corporate America) look like the bad guy. Now Mercury looks like the bad guy and everybody from the union to the politicians did their good deeds. Would like to see what the vote was.
I have been trying to make sense of this whole deal.
What does the union workers have to gain by voting down the new contract?
What does the union gain by perusing and achieving a no vote? Stillwater is non-union.
Is Mercury better off in OK no matter what?
I know that right now Fond du Lac will loss a longtime presence and employer in Mercury. Many people that work at, with and for Mercury will loss their income and by no fault of theirs.
To quote a past fighter,
I will fight no more forever.
Good luck to everybody
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thumper
Posted 8/31/2009 11:17 AM (#84753 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 744

Right or wrong, Mercury's strategy to cut costs has worked. I would be willing to bet some other companies, perhaps in similar stiuations, were watching these proceedings with a keen eye.

Would it be unreasonable to think that FDL could lure a (presumably union) company in to take Merc's place by providing (non-union) workers and an incentive plan similar to the one it offered Merc?
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Shep
Posted 8/31/2009 12:01 PM (#84756 - in reply to #84753)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote



Member

Posts: 3899

"Now I am disgusted," Longsine said. "I put my heart and soul on the line for this, and I feel as if I have been betrayed" by the company because it would not accept the results of the second vote - which might not come until Monday night or Tuesday."

Put heart and soul on the line? Was this before or after he lied to his union brethern about the "bylaws" preventing a second vote?

That second vote should have happened by Wednesday. I am dismayed the Merc would not recognize the vote after all, but this whole deal was mishandled by the union. From Merc is bluffing, to not presenting the facts of the contract to it's members and stirring up emotions, to the "we can swim to shore from here" quote, to lying about a revote.

Hopefully, but not likely, the HQ will stay in Fondy.
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Rich S
Posted 8/31/2009 12:13 PM (#84757 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 2300

Location: Berlin
What do you think the atmosphere is like there today? Hopefully nobody lets their anger get the best of them.
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bradley894
Posted 8/31/2009 1:11 PM (#84759 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: Re: mercury union vote


Member

Posts: 591

Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere
I just had a BRAD MoMENT ALSO BUT PUSHED THE submit key anyway.... still bitter! the headqarters staying in fondy? say byby.., Say hello to a new sales tax in the aria sold to the public to prevent these kinds of things from happening. im sure it will be used to get into the pockets of the people for there own future good. expect the move to be done this fall yet. word on the street is 3 new southbound Ramps will be built to hwy 41 starting next week. Press realease , great news! a new Megga Monster wallmart will be built in Fon du lac wisocnsin And will replace all the jobs lost!, using a 7 square mile plot of land starting with the abandond merc marine building and stretching to the (now ghost town)Fond du lac mall facility over to the Fairgrounds officials say offers on all homes and buisnesses will be 50 cents on the dollar. this new massive endever will include a 3 story 7 square mile walmart complete with living quarters above for all employes and anyone else remaining in town. this is great news for fondy as it will save our city. look forward to everything at your fingertips as the state university system will be houses inside the massive retail facility, also a free clynic sponsored by the wisconsin health care system and much more. the expansion icludes plenty of bike and walking paths as the rest of the city will be transformed into the origional wet lands and goose refuge it once was. this will be a massive endever that will include solar , wind , and thermal equiped living shopping and entertainment options. other key players under the same roof will be a casino and a reality TV production studio. When asked about the plan officials state that this is the first stage of a plan to insure the wisconsin population has a place to work , healthcare, public transportation, entertainment and everything else they need in the future. threw payroll deduct all of ones living expenses can be collected and all needs can be addressed. Lets face it roads cost money! if everyone had everything under one roof we woulnt need cars, one representive mentiond. just think of the cutbacks in ozone if this template was used in all the strugling citys of the united states. oh and there will be free cable also! Other plans include drainage of lake winnibaggo and transforming it back to the Wetlands it once was with hwy151 north from Madison to the lock and dam system in the valley bing expanded into a massive water way for use by pleasure boaters from our states capital to there favorite locations in door county or anywhere else that can be reached via the great lakes and old non esential shipping cannals... another representive mention that that if anyone living in this state of the art comunity paricipates in the world sponsored medical reasearch program they will recieve all the the free medical care they request as long as the take advantage of the WWODP ( world wide organ donation program) in an effort to help out with the increasing demand for vital organs world wide by the greedy..eeeeerr Needy this program will be highly recomended for emplyee's. We would also like to add that the Megga bucks jackpot will increase to a min grand prize jackpot of 1 bazillion dollars if you match the correct 8 noumbers. the second place pot of 7-8 noumber will also be increased to $1,000 dollars. though a bit tuffer odds a free ticket will be awarded to all employes in this new 7 square mile facility and icluded as a weekley service, the future growth of this program depends on private companies that employ a high percentage of there comunities. We just want to be prepared when and if the day come that these vital parts of the comunity decide to re-locate or close there doors. If we just had one windmill for every smoke stack in this world we would all live in a world that is more kid freindly , thats what its all about isnt ? the future of our children's dreams?
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Guest
Posted 8/31/2009 1:38 PM (#84760 - in reply to #84203)
Subject: RE: mercury union vote


One problem with your vision is that Oshkosk Trucks will be purchasing the Merc facilities. They will in turn be hiring nothing but temps with temp type wages and no bennys. Was talking to a few people in Fondy this past weekend. The type of people that hire people. In no uncertain terms will they ever hire any current or past Merc union employees. Too much attitude to deal with.
Mercury has had plenty of incentives all along to leave, Stillwater and OK helping out, someone willing to purchase facilities in Fondy and non-union employment in Stillwater. Yet, they still attempted to make it work in Fondy.
Go figure
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