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| Steve, Once again, not meant to be derogatory, just thought I reconized your name. I work quite often in the area that you had your encounter and I remember the amount of press that it generated among my clients and residents of the area. Thanks for taking the time to visit Walleyefirst and to write about VHS, I live 1/2 mile from Lake Winnebago and have witnessed firsthand the large sheephead dieoff this last spring. I know someone else mentioned this, but if the die off had been Walleye or any other game fish, it would have brought a much larger response than it did. Most people could care less about rough fish and for the last 25 years that I have fished Bago, I have seen a die off in rough fish in the spring and summer. Everyone that I know in my area is concerned about the effect of VHS and we are all doing our best on every outing to inform anyone we meet at the landings about the possibility of transfering VHS. We are all waiting for the ice to melt to see what if anything will happen. Thanks once again for writing. Dominic |
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| I live right on the Winnebago and one of the boat launches is on my block. When the kill happened I called the DNR and reported it, there were about 150 sheephead right at the landing. You are correct that if the kill would have been walleye there would have been more of a ruckus. On the same note though, if the same amount of walleye would have died as sheephead, in the big scemes of things it would be a small fraction of the walleye population in the lake. I too am waiting for ice to leave to see what happens (it might be this month if this weather keeps up)
Another time frame to watch is right around Valintines day. There is always a warm spell then and the perch bite like made in the open waters by the river. I can sit on shore and pull perch up all day long. Never paid attention to the water temp in the past so the conditions may not even be right for anything to happen.
My opinion may change this spring after I see what happens. There has always been sheephead kill offs in spring but not as big as it was last year. No complaints here if it only affects the sheepheads in mass.
Steve K |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Wow, been away for a few days and you guys have went hog wild on this thread. Good luck in all you do to get the results that everyone here thinks are nesseccary to keep our fisheree healthy. I am a bit amazed, after reading all the posts, how some are very self serving. worring about there own side of the world instead of the whole picture. The old taking one for the team. I will do what the DNR tells me to do, but personnally dont believe this is any more than mother natures way of straighteneing out what man has screwed up.
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| "I will do what the DNR tells me to do, but personnally dont believe this is any more than mother natures way of straighteneing out what man has screwed up."
I agree with this 100%. History has demonstrated how mother nature will always win when man tries to control it. |
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| This has been my view point, don't know if I was trying to convey it in the correct manner though.
Steve K |
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| 1st thing in reply to the Golden Shiner showing signs of VHS... Golden Shiners have not been shown to be VHS susceptible.
2nd thing. Musky dieoff in the Detroit River... was it VHS? Yes Joel I copy and paste just like you do....
Muskellunge Die-Off in Southeast Michigan Being Monitored
Contact: Gary Towns 734-953-0241
Agency: Natural Resources
April 25, 2006
A significant number of muskellunge, the second largest game fish in Michigan, have been observed dead over the last month in Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair and Detroit rivers, according to Department of Natural Resources fisheries biologists. The die-off is being monitored by the DNR and volunteer groups in the area.
"Any time a significant number of fish die, we are concerned for the resource and monitor the situation closely to determine the factors behind it," said Gary Towns, DNR Lake Erie Management Unit supervisor. "We feel the current situation has likely been caused by a combination of factors which have impacted the muskies in the area."
Towns said the DNR has essentially ruled out pollution as a factor. He said species such as walleyes, emerald shiners and other minnows, which are more sensitive to pollution, do not seem to have been affected. Anglers are currently catching lots of walleye, bass and other species which appear to be very healthy, Towns added.
DNR fisheries officials feel the die-off of muskellunge could have been caused by several factors including a combination of spawning stress, a warmer winter which may have set the stage for a higher incidence of disease, and recent rapid warming of water over the past several weeks. It is unknown if the bacterial disease first detected in Lake St. Clair muskellunge in 2002, known as musky pox (Piscirickettsia sp.), is involved. Fish with visible signs of musky pox have red rashes and sunken eyes.
Towns said the muskies that are being found in Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River appear to have died about a month ago and were likely on the bottom of the lake and river system. As they have been decomposing, they have floated to the surface of the water, he said. Due to the decomposition, DNR pathologists cannot test the fish for musky pox or other diseases. Only live fish or fish that have been dead for less than a few hours can be tested for bacterial or viral diseases, Towns said.
The rapid warming of the water in the St. Clair River and Lake St. Clair area could be a major factor, Towns said. Normally in late April, the water temperatures are in the mid-40s. Towns said that presently the water temperatures are in the low to mid-50s, and some anglers have reported water temperatures in isolated bays in the 60 degree range. Rapid water temperature changes can put a lot of stress on fish, he said.
In terms of musky pox, Towns said while many muskies may be infected with it, the disease is usually only fatal to a few fish. Musky pox could cause the death of some fish when the fish are under stress, for example during the spring when water temperatures can warm rapidly.
The DNR has contacted Canadian fisheries officials to monitor their side of Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair River as well, and they have reported some dead muskellunge, too. While a musky die-off was observed in the spring of 2003, very few dead muskies were reported in 2004 and 2005.
"We want area anglers to know that we are aware of the problem and we appreciate their reports of dead muskies in the waters of the St. Clair River, the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair," Towns said. "We are actively monitoring the situation to determine the extent of the die-off, however; we feel at this time it is a combination of weather, spawning stress and perhaps some disease factors which have affected the fish."
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | OK before cash's post we heard how VHS was responsible for muskies dieing and other fish die offs. Now we know what the MIDNR thought of it. Thanks for the post cash. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Actually, that release was before the testing confirmed the 4000 plus dead muskies and thousands of other fish were indeed VHS infection related. Look at the date. The outbreak now is confirmed by State and Federal agencies as well, so it's a matter of record and is not debatable. TIMELINE!!!!
At the Tri Esox Show this weekend, I asked well known Muskie Historian and Researcher Larry Ramsell to send over a piece put together from interviews and conversations with Charter Captains, the Michigan DNR, and others describing the impact of that kill.
I completely fail to understand how anyone can honestly say a virus introduced by shipping imported from Europe or some other exotic location into waters it otherwise NEVER would have called home is Nature 'correcting' ANYTHING....Man INTRODUCED THE virus.
'Man' did nothing negative to the Muskie population on St Clair to cause the kill except introduce the virus, and the kill is hardly a plus. If you are encouraging your stellar walleye population on Winnebago, a result of Man's direct interference with Nature, to be 'corrected' by VHS, that would be a surprise to me. I sure can do without VHS 'correcting' any gamefish populations over here.
That said, it's obvious more study needs be done which is underway, and adjustments to the regs could be forthcoming as the results come in.
Redneck tech, I asked everyone at the Show this weekend about you, trying to find where you are published and what magazines asked you to use the VHS story in your work. Where can I see your work handling this issue? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | 2 questions that I am having a hard tiime finding the answers.
They say a dead fish cannot be tested for vhs. How do they know that is what killed them.
Also, I think man built that muskie fishery in lake st.claire.
The walleye have been in bago in varied amounts since 10,000 BC, or some where near there. Man cleaning marshes for better spawning success, well, thats not stocking.
I really am not trying to argue, just find the fact. |
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| sworall:
I would really be interested in seeing the data on 4000 Muskies killed by VHS. |
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| ‘Nothing wrong’ with St. Clair after die-off
Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:18 AM CDT
Another deadly fish virus found in lake
By Bill Parker Editor
Fair Haven, Mich. — “There’s nothing wrong with the muskies,” said muskie guide Bob Brunner from the shore of Lake St. Clair on a recent wind-swept, sunny afternoon. He’d just returned from a fishing trip on the lake with clients Mark and Elaine Diehl and their nephew Adam Piot. Although they didn’t catch a muskie this day, they did encounter a couple strikes and watched two big muskies come up to the surface and roll in the mayfly carcasses littering the lake.
A spring muskie die-off on Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River has many anglers concerned about the world-class fishery in the 420-square-mile lake. But according to recent reports there has been no noticeable impact on the fishery.
A few days after his trip with the Diehl’s, Brunner and crew had “a dozen follows or hits” during the course of a six-hour trip and caught a pair of big tiger muskies, including one “a tad over 50 inches.”
“The first couple days of the season we didn’t see too many fish,” said Brunner, who was enshrined as a legendary guide into the Fresh Water Fishing Hall of Fame last year. “I was a little bit concerned at first, but it’s back on track, now. There are plenty of fish out there and they’re all healthy. I haven’t seen a sick fish, yet.”
Capt. Steve Kunnath also takes clients out muskie fishing on Lake St Clair and said he’s having the best year in his five years on the lake.
“It usually starts slowly and peaks in midsummer, but every trip I’ve gone on so far we’ve gotten into muskies,” Kunnath said. “A lot of people get on my boat and start freaking out and asking all kinds of questions about the die-off, but I haven’t noticed any difference.“
Bob Haas, a research biologist at the Lake St. Clair Fisheries Research Station in Mount Clemens thinks the worst is probably over.
“We haven’t had any recent reports of unusual numbers of dead muskies floating around in the lake,” Haas said.
One note of concern, however, is another virus that has been detected in muskies and other fish in Lake St. Clair. Muskie pox (Piscirickettsia sp.), a viral infection, was first identified in Lake St. Clair’s muskie population in 2002, but is not thought to cause widespread mortality.
Since the die-off, several samples of different species of fish including muskie, northern pike, redhorse sucker, freshwater drum, and rock bass, were netted by biologists and sent to the MSU Aquatic Animal Health Lab in East Lansing for testing. The results have been disappointing.
“They tested a handful of fish and they all showed signs of viral hemorrhagic septicemia, or VHS,” Haas told Michigan Outdoor News. “There was quite a die-off of freshwater drum (sheepshead) recently in Lake Erie and those fish tested positive for VHS, too. We don’t like to see any new diseases, but at this point there is no evidence it will threaten any species of fish.”
Biologists are watching and waiting.
VHS is a fish virus commonly found in Europe. It has been around for the better part of 60 years and was first identified in the United States in salmon in the Pacific Northwest. It is the source of the recent die-off of thousands of gobies and 18 muskies in Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River, as well as die-offs last year of freshwater drum and round gobies in the Bay of Quinte in Lake Ontario,
Health officials say VHS poses no threat to public health, but could cause additional problems for fish species, especially if they are stressed this summer by warmer-than-normal or rapidly changing water temperatures. It causes lesions, hemorrhaging, and loss of blood in infected fish.
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| Home Hooked on muskies: Monster fish makes comeback
Dave Spratt / The Detroit News
Published / September 7, 2007 / Front Page
ST. CLAIR SHORES - Scott Johnson has caught his share of bass and walleye, but when he decided to treat his father and son to a truly memorable fishing excursion, only one species would do: muskie.
So Johnson did some research, found a charter boat and struck gold. He, his father, Larry, and 8-year-old son, Blake, caught four muskies in a half-day of fishing on Lake St. Clair.
"That's a great day for muskie fishing," said Johnson, 36, of Carleton. "Anybody would love to go out and boat four fish, and our total fishing day was just 4-5 hours. It's pulling in trophies that are tough fish."
Dale G. Young / The Detroit News
Kevin Backus shows off a muskie caught in Lake St. Clair. The fierce fish can approach
70 pounds and attracts anglers from across the U.S.
To generations of anglers, muskies were the stuff of legend for their size, ferocity and above all, elusiveness. Muskies -- muskellunge, officially -- are like northern pike on steroids, a slimy slab of muscle, teeth and attitude. They can approach 70 pounds and have been known to take down ducklings, muskrats and the occasional small dog. Yet the average angler so rarely hooked a muskie it became known as the fish of 10,000 casts.
But that's not the case on Lake St. Clair these days. The muskie population is so robust that it supports an entire sportfishing industry, attracting anglers from across North America who want to test their skill against the legendary gamefish. Muskies have withstood a couple of bouts of disease and a long history of catch-and-kill fishing. They've gotten bigger and more numerous, thanks to a combination of cleaner water, better habitat and perhaps most importantly, a concerted effort by anglers to put muskies back in the water and let them grow.
It's paying off: Where a 30-pound fish was considered a monster 30 years ago, it takes a 40-pounder to really get today's muskie catchers buzzing.
"Thanks to catch-and-release, they're growing not only in numbers, but also in size," said Capt. Kevin Backus, who runs Mr. Muskie Charters and is the grandson of legendary muskie fisherman Homer LeBlanc, who pioneered many of the muskie fishing techniques still in use today on Lake St. Clair. "Back then a 30-pounder was a huge bar to set. Now people are going for 40-pounders. I want to catch a 50-pounder."
Bob Houlihan / The Detroit News
The lures used to catch the hefty muskies
can be as big as a man's forearm. Years
ago, it was common practice to shoot or
club the fish.
More trophy muskies caught
Exhaustive records kept by the Michigan Ontario Muskie Club (MOMC) bear out Backus' observations. From 1960 to 1988, there were never more than five 30-pound muskies caught in a single year. Since 2000 there have never been fewer than 15 trophy-sized muskies caught in a year, and the number topped 20 in 2000, 2003 and 2005.
This year there have already been 15 big muskies registered, and the fall -- the best season for catching really big muskies -- is still ahead. The largest muskie ever recorded on Lake St. Clair, a 41.85-pounder, was caught in the club's tournament last month.
"That was the biggest (muskie) I've ever seen," said MOMC Secretary Joe Finazzo, who was the tournament weighmaster. "I was in awe weighing it."
Part of the muskie population's resurgence can be attributed to the overall health of Lake St. Clair, according to Michael Thomas, a fisheries biologist with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources.
Beginning with the Clean Water Act of 1977, Lake St. Clair began to rid itself of the pollutants that make their way up the food chain. Invasive and destructive zebra mussels had a beneficial effect on the fishery by filtering the water and making it clearer. That, in turn, allowed more sunlight to reach the lake bottom, which promoted the growth of plants that are necessary for spawning and cover for a variety of desirable fish species.
"I think it's a pretty balanced system right now and that's reflected in the fishery," Thomas said. "The fact that you have a muskie fishery that draws people from across the country, and a bass fishery that supports tournaments, and a walleye fishery that supports a charter industry and a perch fishery that's still very viable. We have a really diverse fishery and it's a really great mix."
Future's bright for fishing
Steve Kunnath, who leads casting and fly-fishing excursions for muskie and other fish on St. Clair, says the health of the lake could mean even better muskie fishing in the future.
"Remember that it takes a muskie 20 or 25 years to reach a huge size," he said. "The big fish we're catching right now were juveniles when the water cleared and the fishing got better. Who knows how big they can get? We might not have reached the full potential yet."
But it's the way humans interact with the resource that has made St. Clair the muskie mecca it is today. Michigan's size limit on muskies is 42 inches; in Ontario it's 44 inches. That means even when an angler decides to keep and kill a fish, it's likely that it already had a chance to spawn, Thomas said.
But more important is the break from the old days of muskie fishing, where monthly tournaments meant dozens of muskies were removed from the lake for good. The tournaments continue, but these days it's rare for more than one or two fish to die during a tournament. That's a completely sustainable percentage, Thomas said.
Backus, who takes upwards of 70 muskie trolling excursions a year, perfectly embodies the generational sea change that the practice of handling muskies has undergone. In his grandfather's day, it was common practice to shoot muskies or stun them with a billy club "to calm them down before bringing them into the boat." The fish were typically eaten or hung on a wall.
But Backus' 31-foot boat, "Mr. Muskie Too," is equipped with a muskie-sized live well. Once a fish is boated, it immediately goes into the live well to restore oxygen to its gills and rejuvenate its muscles. Anglers are given strict instructions on how to handle the fish quickly and efficiently for pictures, then the fish is replaced in the live well. Once Backus is convinced the fish is back to full strength, it's returned to the lake.
Backus said he once jumped in the lake and spent 30 minutes reviving a fish.
Finazzo said that's fairly standard procedure for club members. He estimates that 80 percent of them have done it.
"We have no hesitation about going in the water," he said. "That's what it's about."
'It's a thriving population'
Muskie anglers had a scare in 2003 and again in 2006, when large numbers of the big fish were found floating dead once the winter ice thawed. Thomas said the 2003 die-off was probably caused by a bacterial infection. In 2006 the culprit was thought to be viral hemorrhagic septicemia, or VHS, a disease thought to have entered the Great Lakes from ocean-going freighters. The long-term impact of VHS on all kinds of Great Lakes fish is still unknown.
But St. Clair's muskies appear to have withstood both attacks.
"In hindsight what we thought was a pretty major die-off appears to have not really affected the population," Thomas said.
The muskie captains say they're catching fish that range from 14 inches to more than 30 pounds, the best gauge that the population will remain healthy and balanced.
Thomas, the DNR biologist, agrees. "It looks like it's going to be a large part of the fishery for a long while," he said "It's safe to say it's a thriving population."
You can reach Dave Spratt at (248) 647-8307 or [email protected] e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it .
Interesting that an exotic is credited for improving a situation, where a second exotic is credited for wiping out a small portion of that "gain". I guess ya take the good with the bad. |
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| Virus ID'd as culprit in 2005 fish kills
Scientists say strain struck again in April
Dead fish litter the edge of Lake Erie on Port Clinton Beach.
( THE BLADE/AMY E. VOIGT )
Zoom | Photo Reprints
By JIM SIELICKI
BLADE STAFF WRITER
A virus strain responsible for the deaths of sheephead in Lake Ontario last year was as the cause of the massive die-off of freshwater drum, or sheephead, in western Lake Erie, a state biologist said yesterday.
Jeff Tyson, fisheries biology supervisor with Ohio's Sandusky Fish Research Unit, said investigators were able to identify relatively quickly the pathogen viral hemorrhagic septicemia because of an earlier experience with a fish kill in the Bay of Quinte in Lake Ontario in spring of 2005.
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service says viral hemorrhagic septicemia results in heavy fish mortality, a fact that was evident last month in Lake Erie when dead fish floated to the shores, creating a stink as the fish rotted on beaches.
Mr. Tyson said 2005 was the first time the virus was documented in fresh water.
The primary victims in the Lake Erie deaths were sheephead, a less-desirable type of fish. Other species were found dead as well, but the role of the virus may be limited, he said.
Separate strains of the North American virus have been identified in salmon and related saltwater species on the east and west coasts. A different strain has hurt the fish-farming industry in Europe.
"There may be other types we don't know yet," he said.
Viral hemorrhagic septicemia was found in a muskellunge caught from the Michigan side of Lake St. Clair in the spring of 2005, raising the possibility the strain is spreading, said Gary Whelan, fish production manager for the Michigan Department.
"We really don't know a lot about it," Mr. Whelan said from his office in Lansing. "It's pretty new, or it may have been here but we just have not detected it before."
He said learning the cause of death of a fish or other creatures can be difficult because the virus isn't always the primary cause.
Fish kills generally occur in spring and often are attributed to fluctuations in water temperatures. The fact that the winter was not particularly cold may have contributed to the increase of bacteria, which survived an extensive freeze, Mr. Tyson said.
The discovery of the infection in the muskie in Lake St. Clair may prompt state biologists who are raising game fish there for release in the wild may have to reconsider where they obtain their breed fish, and the source of water for the pens, Mr. Whelan said.
The virus has been found in the wild in fish such as mummichog, stickleback, striped bass, freshwater drum, and brown trout, researchers in Michigan said, saying there's no indication it constitutes a threat to public health at this point.
The North American VHS strain appears to be much less virulent to salmon and trout than the European VHS strain, Mr. Whelan said.
Finding the cause after a fish has died and decomposed presents quite a challenge in finding a cause of death, compared with examining a live, sick fish, biologists say.
"The disease does not express itself until something else attacks the immune system," Mr. Whelan said.
"Fish in the wild that are dead could have a lot of beasties in them. There's an awful lot of bacteria everywhere," he said.
Contact Jim Sielicki at:
[email protected]
or 419-724-6078
Attachments
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 Sheephead.bmp (112KB - 105 downloads)
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Fish virus could wreak havoc on local waters
Tuesday, November 07, 2006
By John Myers; Duluth News Tribune
mutating fish disease that experts believe came to the eastern Great lakes in the ballast of saltwater ships will affect how some Minnesota and Wisconsin bait dealers and fish farms sell their stock this year and could decimate wild fish populations for decades to come.
The disease, viral hemorrhagic septicemia, or VHS, has infected 27 species, killing fish this year from Lake St. Clair near Detroit into Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, the St. Lawrence River and a New York lake.
VHS has not been found in Lake Superior, said Dennis Pratt, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Lake Superior fisheries expert. But officials say it could be here within a year or two if it’s moving in the ballast of ships.
Unlike exotic species that have found their way to the Great Lakes and have been slow to show their potential harm, VHS has shown its impact swiftly.
VHS was believed to be just a cold-water, mostly saltwater disease, killing species such as trout and salmon in Europe. But it has spread to the U.S. and is killing warm-water species such as drum and perch. The variation found in the Great Lakes, with the first fish die-offs reported this spring, has never been seen before.
“We’ve been testing for this disease and watching it for 30 years, mostly worrying about hatchery fish because of what it did to rainbow trout in Europe,’’ said Darryl Bathel, who heads the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources cold-water hatchery at French River. “But, instead, it’s come in on wild fish and, for the first time, it’s affecting cool- and warm-water species like perch and walleye and emerald shiners.’’
The problem has been so severe at times in the lower Great Lakes that it’s caused “windrows of dead fish on the shore 10 feet deep and three feet high,’’ Bathel said.
“Mortality can happen and it can happen on a massive scale,’’ Bathel said, adding that it could take a couple of generations before Great Lakes wild fish populations develop an immunity to the virus. “We really don’t know how much of an impact it will have on overall populations of the affected fish. We don’t even know all of the fish it might affect yet.’’
So far, the Great Lakes die-offs have occurred in shallow water when fish are spawning, which means an outbreak in the Twin Ports harbor could hurt the St. Louis River estuary’s population of gamefish such as walleye, pike, muskie and more — if it gets this far.
The picture so far is that, while many fish die off quickly as the disease hits, “enough survive that it won’t wipe out entire populations or species in any large water body,’’ said Jeff Gunderson, Minnesota Sea Grant educator. “But this is a virulent strain of the virus that already has shown it can mutate. It’s going to be an issue out there in the lake.’’
VHS was first reported in 1988 in the U.S. in spawning salmon in the Pacific Northwest. It was reported in North American freshwater fish in 2005 in muskies in Lake St. Clair and in freshwater drum from the Bay of Quinte on Lake Ontario.
Little can be done to stop the disease from spreading among wild fish. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in August called a summit on the disease. Aquatic biologists decided they need to find out more but had little advice on how to stop it.
Federal officials have taken steps to stop humans from moving the disease to inland lakes in other states. The U.S. Department of Agriculture last month imposed an immediate ban on interstate movement of any of 37 species of live fish from a Great Lakes state — including Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, New York and Pennsylvania. The ban also prevents any live fish entering the U.S. from Ontario or Quebec.
So far, attention surrounding VHS has focused more on how the federal ban on moving fish will affect fish farms, hatcheries and bait wholesalers. While the ban won’t affect Northland anglers or most bait shops that get their bait in Minnesota, it has stopped bait wholesalers and fish farms from selling stock to other states at the time many were set to harvest and ship their stock.
“There’s a lot of hurt going on right now with people who can’t move their fish,’’ Bathel said.
Minnesota and Wisconsin fish farms, private hatcheries and bait wholesalers have been leaning on the federal government to relax the ban that could cost them big bucks. U.S. Rep. Dave Obey, D-Wis., asked the agency to rethink the outright ban.
That could happen as soon as this week, officials said, possibly allowing movement at least within the affected states. Within months, the federal government hopes to develop a verifiable method to test fish being transported.
Meetings were held last week in Washington to find a compromise, said Jim Rogers, spokesman for the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service division of the Agriculture Department.
“The ultimate goal is to reopen the market … with the movement of fish that still guarantees diseased fish aren’t moved out of one of the infected states,’’ Rogers said.
If the disease enters captive fish populations in Lake Superior, as expected, the entire French River hatchery stock might have to be destroyed. The future of the hatchery would be in question, Bathel said.
The disease doesn’t affect people, but so far it’s been found to cause internal bleeding and death in 27 freshwater species. Before a die-off of muskies in Lake St. Clair last spring, the disease was found only in saltwater species. But it has since killed perch in lakes Ontario and Erie and muskies in the St. Lawrence River.
Scientists believe the saltwater disease got into the Great Lakes the same way as most foreign invaders — the ballast water of saltwater ships that enter the St. Lawrence Seaway. The virus is the first disease to cause major concern, following larger invasive species such as zebra mussels, goby, spiny water fleas and ruffe.
A federal judge has given the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency two years to develop regulations to treat ballast water as water pollution and begin regulating its discharge under the Clean Water Act.
Industry and academic leaders are moving to develop the most effective ways to clean and treat ship ballast, but a cost-effective solution that would kill exotics as small as a virus hasn’t yet been found.
“It’s going to be a tough solution in the long run. In the short run we can try to get them to not exchange ballast at all in the (VHS) infected areas,’’ Bathel said.
'The problem has been so severe at times in the lower Great Lakes that it’s caused “windrows of dead fish on the shore 10 feet deep and three feet high,’’ Bathel said.' Great doom and gloom, published "facts". You would think Amy Voight would of took/found a better picture?  |
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| The committee will hold a public hearing on the following items at the time specified below: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:00 AM 417 North (GAR Hall) State Capitol
Assembly Bill 641 Relating to: requiring the Department of Natural Resources to grant easements over certain lands. By Representatives Friske, Gunderson, Gronemus, Mursau, Meyer, Nerison, M. Williams, Bies, Townsend, Hahn, Ballweg, LeMahieu, Musser and Montgomery; cosponsored by Senator Roessler. Assembly Bill 672 Relating to: the minimum age for hunting and possessing a firearm, age specific restrictions for hunting and on possessing a firearm while hunting, requirements for obtaining a hunting certificate of accomplishment, establishing a hunting mentorship program, and granting rule-making authority. By Representatives Gunderson, Suder, Kreuser, Albers, Ballweg, Bies, Friske, Hraychuck, F. Lasee, LeMahieu, Lothian, Mason, Meyer, Moulton, Mursau, Musser, A. Ott, Strachota, Vos and Vruwink; cosponsored by Senators Vinehout, S. Fitzgerald, Kanavas and Kapanke. Clearinghouse Rule 06-005 Relating to laboratory certification and registration. Clearinghouse Rule 07-074 Relating to control of fish diseases and invasive species. In addition, the Committee may hold an Executive Session on Assembly Bill 187, Assembly Bill 543, Assembly Bill 602, Clearinghouse Rule 06-005, or Clearinghouse Rule 07-074 upon the conclusion of the Public Hearing. Representative Scott Gunderson Chair
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Location: Rhinelander | As I said, I'll post the data collected by Larry Ramsell as soon as he gets it to me. Man did not 'create' the Muskie fishery in the Larry and Great lakes, on the contrary, we nearly ruined it with overharvest and pollution. When that was reversed, the fishery improved. As CPR became even more popular ( it is still not as popular on this water as many others) the size structure increased. The VHS infection over there was definitely the culprit for the 4000 plus fish dieoff. Keep in mind not all dead fish float, and the estimate came from floaters. Can you even imagine several thousand fish 44" average dead and floating? Are you trying to say you WANT VHS in our inland waterways and it was a GOOD thing to lose thousands of Muskies on St Clair? I sure haven't seen any biologist say that yet. or are you trying to say there were TOO MANY big muskies? That one would be a real stretch on the St no matter who you speak to.
I don't get the point of all the articles. Wrap it up for me, please.
Much the same happened on Bay of Green Bay up to the 'improved' part. Man nearly wiped out the native population of Great Lakes Strain muskies here, and a group of dedicated anglers from MI and the Muskie Alliance worked closely starting in 1989 with the WIDNR to re-introduce the fish. It's been a long and expensive process, but has, to this point, shown signs of success other than limited NR due perhaps to habitat destruction, water chemistry, or other issues yet unknown. I won't go into the rest, but a VHS infection in this population of Muskies would be a very bad occurrence no matter how small the losses of adult fish. Can we stop that in the Bay at this point? No. Can we slow the spread across the rest of the State? I hope so, but apparently some hope otherwise or are using the stance it's too annoying to even extend an effort so one can push the 'it's no big deal' platform.
The Detroit News articles are not white papers or scientific documents, nor do they address the actual effects on the effect of VHS on the population of muskies in the Larry and St.
If one chooses to post an article to make a point, I'd like to see us post the date it was published so it fits within the timeline of events.
Jayman, you may get a chance to go take the picture yourself and submit it to a followup article. I hope not, I really do.
To have the tremendous conservation efforts and tremendous results realized on the St and the Larry discounted to dismiss a disease here is pretty weak. I know what it took to get the overharvest, kill events, and size limits changed.
If we hadn't dirtied the waters there so severely with nitrogen rich pollutants and tons upon tons of run off particulate and factory pollution, sewage and other nice things, the Zebras would have not been looked upon in any favorable light at all.
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| sworrall:
"I don't get the point of all the articles. Wrap it up for me, please"
The point isn't that I don't care about the spreading of yet another invasive species, it's about the tactics that are being used to "slow down" the spread. My having to kill my VHS tested minnows after fishing a body of water that hasn't proven to be VHS positive or my having to kill my VHS tested minnows after fishing a body of water that has proven to be VHS positive and going back to that same body of water the next day or even the same day is what is being questioned. It's a blanket rule to make enforcement easy.
Trust in our Sportsmen!!! After all, the Sportsmen are not guilty of bringing in yet another invasive species.
It's a shame that because we question, you don't think we care.. |
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Member
Posts: 319
| Sworrall,
I never siad any cartoon involving VHS has been published yet. I am researching it because there were a few clients that would like it addressed. The cartoon is mainly a fun strip but more magazines and publications are starting to ask for more editorial type of material. Some of the magazines that it is published in are:
Great Lakes Angler
Bass Club Digest
American Bass Angler
Sticks and Stones Outdoor Adventures
Northwoods Sporting Journal
Outdoors Magazine
There are a lot smaller publications and a few newspapers. I am not at liberty to say which magazines want the VHS stuff until they give the ok to publish.
Agian, I am looking at this from a multi-state industry perspective and trying to get a bearing on VHS and believe it or not the greater share of shop owners, fisherman and even DNR personel, all of which is a lot that I have contact with, do not see this as the pressing, dooms day scenario that some do. I keep hearing the same thing, the fish kills involved to date have been a very small fraction of the overall fish populations and have not really affected the stability of the populations. In fact I keep hearing that all the fish have been recovering nicely.
Having all these DNR publications and letters counterdict each other doesn't help things either. I don't see the point that you have to take each document in context on who it was aimed at. If that was the case that in a statement directed at the general public stated one thing and another doucument directed towards scientist would state something different, that deffinatly would point to a cover-up. |
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Location: Rhinelander | RedNeck Tech,
Thanks, Sir. by the way, I'm Steve, too.
Cover up??? That's actually funny. You miss the point, please allow me to explain. Timeline the articles, in order and to date, then look at what the 'question' was, what was being addressed. look at who the article was written by, for whom it was written, and what the expectations might have been by the author. Scientific papers are written in a completely different manner than articles in a blog, newspaper or magazine, and frequently quotes or data created by scientists are taken out of context by us laymen to try to apply them to our point of view. That, when seeking what is real and fact, is a big problem.
Cash, it sure sounds like some don't care; read the posts.
It's just a case of a correction by Mother Nature...etc., no big deal, just another over reaction...let it take it's course, the damage wasn't a big deal...no controls are needed...hmm.
I was making the point you can't ( or at least shouldn't expect to) have it both ways; if you DO care you should abide by the rules as written as we are expected to. If you decide to complain in the public domain, it is incumbent upon you to do so as an informed sportsman, or you MIGHT influence some other uninformed fellow to do something that IS harmful instead of the opposite.
I also was trying hard to make the point that the folks who handle this sort of thing for a living might just know more about the whole process than us sportsmen. That's why you go to a Doctor when you are sick, and hire an expert repair person when your freaking main sewer line takes a poo.
I find it interesting we unquestioningly trust scientists who tell us what vitamins to take or what sunscreen to use, but call biologists who have just as much education and working experience and have our ecosystem's best interest at heart idiots because we don't want to have to change the way we behave. Show me I'm wrong here....
It isn't the guy who lives by the law for whom the penalties are determined and applied, it's those who choose NOT to. Age old argument, but 'trusting' sportsmen and women is fine until it comes to biding by the law; then I'll rely on how our democracy has been operated since it's inception....the rule of law.
I don't trust all sportsmen to strip their trailer of Eurasian Milfoil even though it's the law and they KNOW they have some on the axle. I've seen these folks get nailed by volunteer lake association folks standing at the line at the landings. We now have Eurasian milfoil in quite a few N WI lakes screwing things up because some damned fool couldn't take a moment to clean off his rig...to annoying to deal with.
For the same reasons, I trust the majority abiding by the law because HAVING the law at least gets the attention of enough of us to slow down the overall spread of all invasives.
In short, it's a case of: "Trust everyone, but brand your cattle."
Again, my opinion. All of our opinions together wouldn't buy a cup of coffee, but that's another subject. |
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Member
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| Just wanted to clear something up. I didn't mean to imply that there was a cover-up. But there are a lot of documents and or statements that are very close to each other as far as who they were intended for and still (at times) say two different things. |
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| sworrall:
If this virus (VHS) has the potential to be as deadly as you, the dept of ag and the dnr believe then they need to get radical in not only the category of bait, but in all aspects of control. Close down all boat and water craft use for two years. The burden of slowing down this deadly spread, if that is your belief, must be put upon all users. If you don't agree with this, then you must not believe VHS to be as big a problem as you make it out to be? This isn't practical you say? Then I say, dumping your minnows in situations where there is no chance of spreading VHS isn't practical either. |
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Member
Posts: 319
| Up date.
I recieved a call from the DNR today regarding the golden shiner that had VHS symptoms. The DNR is not going to test it for VHS because golden shiners are not on the federal list of fish... but he siad that does not mean that it couldn't have VHS and in the future the golden shiner could be added to the list if it is proven that a number of them get the virus.?? They are going to chalk it up to a different virus. He also told me that he was corrected, frozen and dead fish can be tested for VHS but they prefer live over dead.
My question is... if there is even a slite chance that a golden shiner could have VHS (and it is not out of the realm of possibilty) why take the chance and not test it? It is not even going to be determined what other virus it could be if it is something different. Not placing blame but this is a pretty good sized hole for such a deadly virus.
If VHS is as deadly as some say and has really harmed fish populations as some seem to think then why not stop fishing for those particular fish for a while and let the population recoup? I don't hear anything even close to that. When the perch population in Lake Michigan dropped like a rock the DNR, rightfuly so, drastically change the bag limits on perch on the lake. I have not heard of any drastic changes for this year (if I am wrong I apologize) so one can assume that the fish population had no adverse affect place upon it by VHS. I would assume that any fish population on any particular lake that had a VHS break out would have a big change in regulations if the population was remotely in any danger.
Steve |
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Location: Rhinelander | Redneck,
Sorry man, but you said it, clear as the font it was typed in.
Why are you taking it to the 'stop fishing for the species effected' edge? No one has said any one population has been damaged that much YET, right? If, however, enough of a kill happens in any one water body to threaten the population, you may just see that regulation as a temporary measure. Another kill in the thousands of adult muskies on the St, for example, could easily create new regs for Muskie harvest there.
The idea OBVIOUSLY is to stop transportation of bait contaminated by water from an infected water body to waters not yet contaminated. YOU may be conscientious enough to make sure that doesn't happen, but there's plenty of folks who just might not be. When you leave your house tomorrow, I bet you see a speed limit sign in your neighborhood, right? Now most folks KNOW it's stupid to speed around in a neighborhood where there are kids and folks in the streets, right? So why is there a sign? To hold the folks who would speed and cause damage to the law, let 'em know the obvious, and enforce same.
Not quite the same analogy, but I'm sure you get that point.
Also, I made the point several times and several ways that scientists across the effected range have expressed they are very concerned, but NO ONE has yet said they were 'positive' what the long term effects will be.
As study and the near future gives us all a better barometer where this infection is headed in the infected waters, and how much damage can and does occur over the next couple years, I'm betting the regulations will change one way or the other. I hope things go 'our' way on most of our lakes and rivers in general, but I'm one not willing to bet the farm on that outcome.
Cash, think about it, the regs in place basically, if followed to the letter, do what your suggestion does, just without the severe restrictions you describe. Fish have to be dead, bait has to be dead, and no water in the buckets of either. Can't dump bait anywhere in the water, must kill it and dispose of it ashore.
If the population of any of the panfish or gamefish in any infected waters is hurt badly enough, I bet Steve will see exactly what he offers up happen.
I sure hope that isn't in our future.
By the way, Cash, I don't KNOW what the effect of this virus will be long term. Do you?
I'd like to see us err on the side of caution. If everything is just ducky in a couple years and there are no outbreaks or spread of the disease, I'll be a happy guy.
It's going to suck if it goes the other way, no matter what you or I think.
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Member
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| Sworrall
You have constantly been saying to take all documents and DNR statement in the context for which they were written... now please do the same with comments such as mine. You are taking things out of context. I am pointing out absurdity in the law with absurdity. There is no fisherman that would say stop fishing, but on the same line if one is going to try to point out that a situation is very dire and at the same time is unwilling to lay his hobby on the table for a while then the situation can not be that bad.
You are right, IF a big enough musky kill happened on ST. Claire there could be reg. changes...as of right now there has been only one kill and nothing since and no regulation changes. You cannot base science on un-answered questions.
Science is supposed to be based on fact, and there are plenty of facts that show that VHS hasn't had that much of an impact on wild fish populations. Even on the musky, even with the knowlage that Musky populations anywhere are always much, much lower than any other fish but that is the nature of musky. Any population of any living organisim will brush off a 2% - 4% kill unless it is endanger of extintion.
You must also keep in context where the very harmful or total population kills in fish from VHS have all been...in fish farms, not the wild. Europe has had VHS for decades and it did not desimate the wild fish there. They still fish heavily.
Steve |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Maybe we should worry more about our own species than a few muskies????
Plague a growing but overlooked threat: study By Michael Kahn
Mon Jan 14, 8:06 PM ET
LONDON (Reuters) - Plague, the disease that devastated medieval Europe, is re-emerging worldwide and poses a growing but overlooked threat, researchers warned on Tuesday.
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While it has only killed some 100 to 200 people annually over the past 20 years, plague has appeared in new countries in recent decades and is now shifting into Africa, Michael Begon, an ecologist at the University of Liverpool and colleagues said.
A bacterium known as Yersinia pestis causes bubonic plague, known in medieval times as the Black Death when it was spread by infected fleas, and the more dangerous pneumonic plague, spread from one person to another through coughing or sneezing.
"Although the number of human cases of plague is relatively low, it would be a mistake to overlook its threat to humanity, because of the disease's inherent communicability, rapid spread, rapid clinical course, and high mortality if left untreated," they wrote in the journal Public Library of Science journal PloS Medicine.
Rodents carry plague, which is virtually impossible to wipe out and moves through the animal world as a constant threat to humans, Begon said. Both forms can kill within days if not treated with antibiotics.
"You can't realistically get rid of all the rodents in the world," he said in a telephone interview. "Plague appears to be on the increase, and for the first time there have been major outbreaks in Africa."
Globally the World Health Organization reports about 1,000 to 3,000 plague cases each year, with most in the last five years occurring in Madagascar, Tanzania, Mozambique, Malawi, Uganda and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The United States sees about 10 to 20 cases each year.
More worrying are outbreaks seem on the rise after years of relative inactivity in the 20th century, Begon said. The most recent large pneumonic outbreak comprised hundreds of suspected cases in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 2006.
Bubonic plague, called the Black Death because of black bumps that sometimes develop on victims' bodies, causes severe vomiting and high fever. Victims of pneumonic plague have similar symptoms but not the black bumps.
Begon and his colleagues called for more research into better ways to prevent plague from striking areas where people lack access to life-saving drugs and to defend against the disease if used as a weapon.
"We should not overlook the fact that plague has been weaponized throughout history, from catapulting corpses over city walls, to dropping infected fleas from airplanes, to refined modern aerosol formulation," the researchers wrote. (Reporting by Michael Kahn; Editing by Maggie Fox and Ibon Villelabeitia)
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