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| Message Subject: Once was hidden.... | |||
Rich S |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | boat sales? :D | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Fishing in general. The sport has been losing participants steadily for years, and that is bad for this country. The out of doors are becoming a strange and dangerous appearing place for a large cross section of a couple generations, easy targets fr PETA and Finding Freaking Nemo. In order to grow the sport and keep it viable and supported by our state and federal tax dollars, we need to bring more folks into fishing, and I've seen the connection work for 30 years. Gotta comment: 'BUT until the field is level you won't find a single sponsor willing to invest those marketing dollars needed to Grow. ' What? There are multiple sponsors doing just that. Wal Mart re-upped with FLW...that's HUGE. Brunswick continues to support competitive angling, as does Ranger Boats, Evinrude, and many more companies. Toyota supports BASS and PAA big time. Maybe more potential promotional partners need to be properly introduced to the sport. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Hey Denny. We've talked about this many times...the inside story that really isn't, the gossip that's really nothing more than anonymous crap slinging...OFM can do what we have discussed and do it right; is that what you think the fans really will want? Will taking that step without eliminating what we do now 'add' fans? See the videos we shot at ICAST where some of the Final 12 talked about the hunt for the Angler of the Year and the chances of beating Skeet. Stronger? More of same, but Walleye? | ||
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| Guest |
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| Steve I'm sorry but those sponsors are investing in the wrong people...there justmaking tourney directors more money and giving the players a avenjue to do what they love at their own cost. And. Fyi fishing is not shrinking as you say at least in wisconsin anyway. We went through this last year Good luck tyee | |||
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| Guest |
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| Those videos are nice for existing fans that understood the hunt you speak of but did nothing to promote fishing and the joy of the sport much less be exciting or entertaining to those outside the sport. | |||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Guest - 8/28/2010 11:53 PM Those videos are nice for existing fans that understood the hunt you speak of but did nothing to promote fishing and the joy of the sport much less be exciting or entertaining to those outside the sport. EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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| Dale |
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Member Posts: 874 Location: Neenah, WI | I've sat around the fireplace at Fellegy's house and dicussed fishing in general and promoting the sport in particular. There were many great ideas and therories brought up. I'll leave it up to him to bring that stuff up because they're his ideas. I know that we not only need fishing industry sponsors to step up, but we need endemic sponsors to step up and join us that envision the possibilities that will sell their products. With more women fishing we also shoild look to products that appeal to them. I think the advertising dollars could be there if we could just get the message across that we have enough of a fan base who would buy and use their products. The more we market ourselves, the more the money gets spread around. If we keep fishing FOR OUR OWN MONEY the sport will never advance. I'll be 63 next month and can't really see putting myself through the grind of all the travel, etc. to compete much anymore. The spirit is willing but the body isn't always up to par. Close tournaments or bodies of water I already know would be a consideration. You can promote national sponsors locally as well as the national level. We have young anglers who are up to their bicuspids in debt just trying to compete. (don't let the fancy boats, clothes and trucks fool ya) When I can no longer fish and have to watch from my recliner or at weigh-ins, I would at least like to think that I played some small part in making the sport succeed. I'm out until tomorrow, going to the Brewers game. | ||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Dale meant "I know that we not only need fishing industry sponsors to step up, but we need NON-endemic sponsors to step up and join us that envision the possibilities that will sell their products...not "endemic". The likes of the two "Ginny's" (one being Dales wife) when they were a team in many tourneys, was a typical opportunity to grow the sport, missed by the old school marketing teams. Edited by Steve Fellegy 8/29/2010 8:30 AM | ||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Guest - 8/28/2010 11:53 PM Those videos are nice for existing fans that understood the hunt you speak of but did nothing to promote fishing and the joy of the sport much less be exciting or entertaining to those outside the sport. This quote above shows that marketing to PEOPLE, NOT fishermen, is the key to growing the audience. | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Ya Steve that quote is from a 19 year old in his first year of Marketing. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | What would the tournament coverage video content be that would be exciting and entertaining to those outside the sport? Notice the JK interview with Marianne Huskey. Read it. Then look at the interview with Joe Okada. The sport of fishing IS and has been losing participants every year. That's why the 'Take Me Fishing' program was started. License sales as a percentage of the overall population are very soft. From this year's ICAST RBFF report: “Although overall participation is down slightly from 2008, we’re delighted to see that freshwater fishing, which is by far the most popular type of fishing in the U.S., has been able to reverse a two-year downward trend into a one-year positive increase in participation,” said RBFF President and CEO Frank Peterson. “This Special Report is full of valuable information to help stakeholders shape their future marketing and education programs.” 2008 was down from 2006. I don't believe participation has attained 2006 levels yet this year, but sales ARE up over last year. There is a slight increase in fresh water angling, but not as a percentage of the overall population. That's troublesome. Wisconsin's license sales have 'held steady' since decreases between 2001 and 2006, and have not grown according to recent articles and press releases by the WIDNR. That means we are losing participants in the sport to attrition, and not gaining enough to grow the sport. Tyee, that's what 'holding steady' means. I don't think that's the goal. Are you looking for 'dirt' to be published? Rumors and slash and bash articles about personal lives? reality TV arguments and fighting? What...exactly...should we be focusing on with the teams and anglers SF brings up? Would not those interviews be pre-event and post-event, by a fairly wide timeframe? Are you looking for 'up close and personal' stuff done at the subject's home and work, the backgound 'why I fish and who I am' story? It's been donein the bass world where 1 of 4 anglers nationally participate. It's been done using ESPN's incredible reach and deep pockets. And yet, BASS is being sold because quite simply, it isn't making money. FLW did the Fantasy Fishing deal...a great concept to draw the fans to the FLW website and to the sport; a cool million given away, yet they went near bust in this downturn, and are fighting their way back right now. The walleye tournament circuits out there are not making big money, gents. They are not cash cows for the owners. Survival is the mode right now, and who...exactly...should the Sponsors invest in? If they do not invest in circuits, there will be no venue for them to get an ROI from their Pros who showcase the products they build, and if they do not invest in their promotional anglers, there will be too few Pros for a successful venue. If there's no venue, there is, by default, no fans because there is no competition. All this sounds really great until you try to apply it somewhere....I'd like to see change too, but if freaking ESPN can't grow the sport with the HUGE pageantry of the Classic, the drama of the final 12, the grass roots entries and weekly TV, how am I, as a Media guy, to help take the reigns and make it so? | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Assertions elsewhere that the press should make a big deal out of the recent DQ'd fish at an AIM event. Make a story out of the 'disagreement' between the angler and officials at the time of the decision, hoping to sensationalize it from what it was; a clear rules infraction that wasn't any more intentional than not paying attention to one's speed on the freeway...but if you have someone checking your speed and are 15 over...even if you don't check your speedometer and didn't intend to speed, you are gonna get a ticket. Other than sensationalistic 'reality TV' that isn't, please explain the 'story' there. That the rule is 'unfair'? Really? Then they all are, right? Are we to HOPE for a big blow up at a few events to grab the 'train wreck' fascination of those who otherwise would not be 'fans'? I think I'm seeing what the concept is at least in part and I'm not real comfortable with it I guess. Should I be? The Circuits CERTAINLY won't sensationalize that sort of thing, so it'd be up to us ( the press), and it seems it has been to a degree. Open bashing and attacks are OK some places, not OK in others, and it's obvious that bashing and fighting draws an audience, but what about the 'quality' of those page views? Is that the audience we are going to try to recruit as 'fans', and are there enough of them available to our media to make any real difference? That is the type of story a huge non endemic sponsor wants to see? Is it THAT big a deal that teams exist? If so, when JK and Ron Lindner ask Pros about their teams and get an answer, why doesn't anyone seem to give a hoot? Would a story on the practice make for more fans? Well, thinking about it, 'Pro' Wrestling is big...even though I find it absurd LOTS of 'fans' like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9s_Cantor New stage MC? | ||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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sworrall - 8/29/2010 8:42 PM Assertions elsewhere that the press should make a big deal out of the recent DQ'd fish at an AIM event. Make a story out of the 'disagreement' between the angler and officials at the time of the decision, hoping to sensationalize it from what it was; a clear rules infraction that wasn't any more intentional than not paying attention to one's speed on the freeway...but if you have someone checking your speed and are 15 over...even if you don't check your speedometer and didn't intend to speed, you are gonna get a ticket. Other than sensationalistic 'reality TV' that isn't, please explain the 'story' there. That the rule is 'unfair'? Really? Then they all are, right? Are we to HOPE for a big blow up at a few events to grab the 'train wreck' fascination of those who otherwise would not be 'fans'? I think I'm seeing what the concept is at least in part and I'm not real comfortable with it I guess. Should I be? The Circuits CERTAINLY won't sensationalize that sort of thing, so it'd be up to us ( the press), and it seems it has been to a degree. Open bashing and attacks are OK some places, not OK in others, and it's obvious that bashing and fighting draws an audience, but what about the 'quality' of those page views? Is that the audience we are going to try to recruit as 'fans', and are there enough of them available to our media to make any real difference? That is the type of story a huge non endemic sponsor wants to see? Is it THAT big a deal that teams exist? If so, when JK and Ron Lindner ask Pros about their teams and get an answer, why doesn't anyone seem to give a hoot? Would a story on the practice make for more fans? Well, thinking about it, 'Pro' Wrestling is big...even though I find it absurd LOTS of 'fans' like it. YES to all of your questions/thoughts. Old school is "not real comfortable with it." The new school sees the new school and runs with it. Why do the news anchors lead with bad, ugly type stories? And in the process, do "sponsors" of those newscasts run away? Done right, there will always be more good than bad stuff to cover. But just what leads most newscasts on sports and or general news channels? Are the bean counters just people that like to sensationalize the news? Or do they know something the marketing people in competitive fishing circles are not "comfortable" with? What sells to the 15 to 35 year olds? Now--is Riley married or not? Did he break his promise? Where's the year old headline? LOL Why did Seelhoff back out of the last AIM event at the last minute? Or did he......? Bedtime now and a day on the water early tomorrow. | |||
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| No one important |
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Now--is Riley married or not? Did he break his promise? She broke a promise. He is not married. | |||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | That's what I thought. What Steve wants is for us ( the 'press') to be paparazzi. He believes that will grow the sport. We do some of that already, but as he said, it needs to be 'done right'. Is the marriage deal with Todd that wasn't a big story for you? What do you think? | ||
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| Guest |
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| Mr. Fellegy, last time I looked I haven't seen your name in a well known pro-am tournament in at least two years. Funny how you think you have all the solutions and think by digging up dirt is worthy content to help grow the sport. As far as I know, BASS didn't get to the size they are by acting on rumors or digging dirt up for stories to draw in a crowd. Reporting dirt in a paparazzi fashion if you want to call it will only put tournament fishing in a bad light. As Mr. Worrall said, look at the stories he mentioned, stories like the Joe Okada and Marianne Huskey pieces, those were interesting and compelling. Those stories keep me coming back for more and keep me interested as they do for others I think. AIM would benefit a lot with stories like those on weekly basis or input from industry icons like Ron Lindner and Jim Kalkofen. | |||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Quote:As far as I know, BASS didn't get to the size they are by acting on rumors or digging dirt up for stories to draw in a crowd. Reporting dirt in a paparazzi fashion if you want to call it will only put tournament fishing in a bad light." BASS is not very big, relatively speaking, as MOST of the people attempting to compete in that venue are still going or have gone broke in the process. Hot dog eatings contests draw bigger numbers on ESPN than BASS. Me being in a boat competing the past 2 years, after being in the game for most of the past 27 years, surely wouldn't give me more basis for trying to improve how the future of the game is shaped and grows. If it would? Somebody better start paying me again to do so, and I will be back with bells on! LOL | ||
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| iceman35 |
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 Member Posts: 650 | hey Steve W... just got back from a USO tourney this weekend. have a report on the weekend soon at the tuffy board... lot of writing here... head hurts. tough to compare Walleye and bass... tourney wise... Walleye is seasonal where in parts of the country bass is year round. I think a big factor in bass tourneys is the federations of bass clubs. hold things together for the weekend guys... I don't see the walleye world with anything like that... I'm here in NY with some great walleye fishing. tourneys, next to none... might start a club for next year... | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | 'Hot dog eatings contests draw bigger numbers on ESPN than BASS. ' That, of course, isn't necessarily true, but point taken. No one answered the question yet as to exactly what some of the coverage video content might be to answer the objections posted above. | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Ok Steve as you are looking for what a production/marketing company really does to get the ball rolling (Not something "WF Should necessarily do") as you are a news and information venue, take a look at some of the simple trailer clips that an old friend of mine does now in Hollywood, he has won 3 emmys. He did it better than I in school and has become very successful at it. You are right about one thing....It ain't cheap. www.wunderfilm.com I think your confusing what Steve F is saying with what you would like to do. Unfortunately you are a news and information company not a marketing/production company. and the new is looking for a show to bite their teeth into. Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 8/30/2010 9:25 AM | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | sworrall - 8/28/2010 6:53 PM Hey Denny. We've talked about this many times...the inside story that really isn't, the gossip that's really nothing more than anonymous crap slinging...OFM can do what we have discussed and do it right; is that what you think the fans really will want? Will taking that step without eliminating what we do now 'add' fans? See the videos we shot at ICAST where some of the Final 12 talked about the hunt for the Angler of the Year and the chances of beating Skeet. Stronger? More of same, but Walleye? Steve I agree 110% with what you are saying regarding the media. If not for OFM the coverager of such events would be horrifying. My question regarding the reason to grow the sport was well answered by you. Tyee, fellegy, you guys need to explain to us how you will get it done. I have a wild imagination and it is clogged. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Younger age...Define how young? Then look at the economics of it. Last time I check most young folks out of school can't afford $50K boats, $40K trucks, and thousands more in tackle. The model is broke....financially also. | ||
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| Steve Fellegy |
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Member Posts: 150 Location: mille lacs, mn. | Jayman - 8/30/2010 10:26 AM Younger age...Define how young? Then look at the economics of it. Last time I check most young folks out of school can't afford $50K boats, $40K trucks, and thousands more in tackle. The model is broke....financially also. Back from fishing this morning.... Jayman, Fans don't need to buy boats and tackle. They don't need to fish!!! Do NFL fans play football? They know nothing about serious football!! NASCAR fans race? Buy race cars? None of them know about or care about what a restricted carb is. BUT!! They ALL add up to consumers in the real world. And THAT group is what we need to attract non-endemic sponsors. We already have the serious fishermen. Forget about fishermen! I want the gal that holds a Super Bowl party (every Sunday)and can't spell shoulder pads! If you get enough FANS, enough of them will become endemic consumers. More of them then you have now! Now--I am out of this thread.....over and out. If you can't understand what my weather-beaten mind is saying and envisioning....I can't help ya anymore here. LOL | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Steve, Again, that's a cop out. Your thoughts on this are pretty out of the box, and it isn't surprising that folks have trouble 'getting' what you are trying to say. if you are truly interested in making a change, why would you bail out the minute someone challenges a concept? | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Steve Fellegy knows, and I agree with him, that I want that gal that cannot spell shoulder pads, yet has super bowl parties for sure, have you seen her? Them are the fan base you want to create. HOWEVER, I believe he bailed on this conversation because he doesn't know how to get them either. He wants more monies spent, he wants more people that don't fish to follow fishing and he wants serious kids programs, but if he knows how to get that, he aint tellin or he doesnot know. He also knows that what OFM is doing will not grow the sport, what he doesnot seem to understand is what OFM does is KEEP the existing customer base. What he knows is there are plenty of players in the game so there is no reason to attract new ones. Steve F. If I am wrong then go ahead and tell me, but that is what I read. Who will be the one who cracks this and makes the next million being the walleye promo king, the last was the lindners. | ||
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