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Location: McFarland, WI | Two agencies are involved in the VHS regulations. The Department of Ag Trade and Consumer Protection is propsing new animal health rules including VHS regulations that will impact the live bait industry. There is a public hearing at Fox Valley Tech College on Monday January 7, 2008 6-7 pm. New rules can be viewed at https://apps4.dhfs.state.wi.us/admrules/public/Home |
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| Again, opinion is one thing but here is some more information from an accredited source.
What is VHS and where is it from?
Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia, known as VHS, is an infectious disease of fish that was diagnosed for the first time ever in 2005 in fish in the Great Lakes, and was confirmed as the cause of fish kills in lakes Huron, St. Clair, Erie, and Ontario and the St. Lawrence River in 2005 and 2006. VHS was detected for the first time this spring in fish from Wisconsin waters of the Lake Winnebago System and Lake Michigan. Fish biologists believe the virus may soon be in fish from Lake Superior and the Mississippi River and their tributaries if it's not already there.
Historically, VHS was known as a very serious disease of farm raised rainbow trout in Europe. The Great Lakes strain of VHS is genetically different than the strains from Europe and the Pacific Northwest, in that the Great Lakes strain seems to affect a wider range of freshwater species over a broader range of water temperatures.
How did VHS get into our lakes?
VHS virus is considered an invasive species (not native to the Great Lakes), but scientists are not sure how the virus arrived. The virus may have come in with migrating fish from the Atlantic Coast. It may have hitch-hiked in ballast water from ships or it may have been brought in with frozen Pacific herring imported for use as bait. Fish may also have carried the virus to Lake Superior and ballast discharged from ships may have moved the virus to port cities there. A likely way the disease is spread is through moving live fish or water from one water body to another. The disease has been found in three inland lakes, one each in New York, Michigan and Wisconsin, and could have hitchhiked in a live well, bilge water, on a boat or in minnows or other live fish.
How does VHS spread to fish and to new lakes?
Infected fish shed the virus into a lake or river through their urine and reproductive fluids. The VHS virus is absorbed into the gills of healthy fish and can remain infective up to 14 days in water. Healthy fish can also be infected when they eat an infected fish. Infected fish and water can easily spread the virus if they are released into a new water body. That’s why emergency rules prohibit anglers, boaters and other water users from moving live fish and water from one waterbody to another.
Why do fish biologists consider VHS a serious threat to Wisconsin fish?
Fish biologists consider the virus a serious threat to Wisconsin fish for several reasons: it can spread easily between fish of all ages, it affects a broad range of our native game fish, panfish and bait fish as well as "rough" fish, and it often kills fish. The strain that has shown up in the Great Lakes is new and fish here have had no exposure to the virus, meaning their immune systems have no defense and are "highly susceptible". This is the first time a virus has affected so many different fish species from so many fish families in the Great Lakes.
Continue to enjoy Wisconsin's great fishing experience!
What is the long-term outlook for VHS?
Fish that survive the infection will develop antibodies to the virus which will protect the fish against new VHS virus infections for some time. However, the concentration of antibodies in the fish will drop over time and the fish may start shedding the virus again, creating a cycle of fish kills that occurs on a regular basis. Nonetheless, experiences from other states indicate that fisheries can and have bounced back.
What are the chances we can stop this disease?
We stand a good chance of slowing the spread of VHS, and we must focus efforts on those pathways that present the greatest risk because they involve the virus at high enough concentrations to infect fish. While a little water left in a bilge, on fishing equipment or carried by a bird all carry a very low risk of transmission, moving infected fish or large amounts of water that contain the virus to new locations are high risk activities. That's why DNR's emergency rules require draining all water from boats and do not allow live fish to leave boat landings. In the Great Lakes, efforts need to be directed to the movement of large amounts of ballast water by cargo ships, especially in cases where ballast water is taken on board when active VHS outbreaks are occurring.
Can VHS be spread by birds?
VHS cannot be transmitted through the feces of birds that eat infected fish. The virus is inactivated in the birds' gastrointestinal track and does not survive the birds' high internal body temperature. The European strain of VHS can survive on the feathers or feet of birds feeding on a pile of infected fish or sitting in water containing the virus, so theoretically, a bird could move the virus to nearby waters but practically, it would take repeated trips of birds from an infected lake to another waterbody to transfer enough virus to create the concentrations of the virus needed in the water to infect fish.
What can provoke a VHS outbreak and will fishing restrictions be greater during these times?
There are two important factors that can influence the severity of a VHS outbreak: water temperature and stress. The European strain of the virus grows best in fish when water temperatures are 37-54°F and most infected fish will die when water temperatures are between 37- 41°F. We do not yet know the temperature ranges for the Great Lakes strain of VHS. Freshwater drum and walleye have died when water temperature ranged from 66-70 F.
Any stressors, including poor water quality or lack of food, release the stress hormone, cortisol, which suppresses the fish immune system. Additionally, other hormones related to spawning can also suppress the immune system. This may be why so many of the fish kills in the Great Lakes have occurred just before, during, or right after the spawning period. If VHS is detected in a particular waterbody and a fish population appears to be in jeopardy, fisheries management actions may be taken as appropriate to protect the fish populations.
LOTS to think about in the above fact based information including the potential to limit or even end fishing during the spawn. Face it gentlemen, this has the potential to go WAY beyond worrying about spending more money on minnows. |
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| Here is a fresh article from about ice angling and VHS from the WIDNR.
Ice anglers adjusting to VHS rules
Strategies to comply but still fish with minnows and dead bait
MADISON – Buy only the minnows you need to fish that day or leave the bulk of them in a container in your vehicle in the parking lot or another location away from the water, bank or shore and return to the vehicle to resupply if the fishing action heats up.
These are some of the strategies that Wisconsin ice anglers are using this winter to comply with new emergency rules aimed at preventing the spread of a new fish disease, viral hemorrhagic septicemia, or VHS for short, according to Conservation Warden Tom Van Haren, policy officer for the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
“People are starting to figure out ways to deal with the new rules,” he says. “Their minds are starting to click: if I can’t do what I have always done in the past, what can I do?
“Some of these strategies can save a few trips back to the bait store when the fish are biting good, and not require you to drain the water from all the minnows you purchased when the fishing is slow.”
VHS spreads fish to fish, or when infected fish or infected water are transported by people to a new water, so the emergency rules prohibit anglers from taking away water or live fish, including bait fish, from the shore or bank of any lake or river in Wisconsin.
The emergency rules also limit the use of dead fish as bait, which can harbor the VHS virus. Dead fish can be used as bait only on the water it originated from, or on Lake Michigan or Green Bay, (waters where VHS has already been found) or if the bait was preserved by means that do not require refrigeration or freezing.
Here are other strategies for fishing with minnows or other bait fish that comply with the rules:
Waterfront property owners or those staying at accommodations with shoreline frontage can keep their minnows in a bait container attached to a dock or boat on that waterbody, with their name and address clearly marked on the container when left unattended. As long as the minnows are not being transported away from the water, bank or shore they may be kept live for later use on that waterbody. This option will not always be available in winter when the waters are covered with ice.
Ice anglers can submerge a bait container under the ice of a permanent ice shanty and can then use those minnows at a later date on that waterbody. Remember, however, that ice fishing holes can be no more than 12 inches in diameter or square.
Anglers who don’t use the previous strategies and who have leftover minnows must drain all water out of all containers, including those holding their minnows, before they leave the bank or shore and may not attempt to revive the fish later. If there is a trash can at the boat landing or access point, they may be able to dispose of the minnows there. Otherwise, they can take the minnows home and dispose of them in the trash or compost them or use them in a garden. Another option: water-free, dead minnows can be taken home and chemically treated and then used at a later date.
Anglers can still trap their own minnows for use as bait, but may not transport any such live minnows away from the water where caught. All minnow traps must bear the owner’s name and address and must be checked and the contents removed at least once every 48 hours. The possession limit for minnows is 600 unless you are a licensed bait dealer.
Bait dealers can apply for a wild bait harvesters permit, which allows them to transport live minnows away from a water body. However, anglers tempted by this option should understand that they will need to file paperwork describing exactly where and when they will be harvesting to get the permit, keep records of where the bait ends up, and have a qualified veterinarian perform a health inspection of the minnows before any of them can be used. No minnows possessed by fishing with hook and line equipment may be transported away from the water where used live.
A brochure that answers more of the questions anglers have asked about the new rules is now available online. http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/documents/vhs_baitanglers1107legal.pdf
VHS is not a threat to people or pets but it’s a significant health fish health disease and can cause fish to bleed to death. VHS has demonstrated in other countries and Great Lakes states the potential to cause large fish kills, long-term reductions in wild fish populations, and severe economic impacts.
FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT: Tom Van Haren (608) 266-3244
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| "In the Great Lakes, efforts need to be directed to the movement of large amounts of ballast water by cargo ships, especially in cases where ballast water is taken on board when active VHS outbreaks are occurring."
One of the largest players in the expanding horizon of exotic invasive species has been Salty going vessels on the Great Lakes. The DNR has been saying this for years. Yet, here we are 2007, still have saltys dumping ballast water in the Great Lakes.
Minnows...I've heard so many guys say they're not gointg to kill their minnows at X amount of money. This is a capitalistic society, we operate on money, pure and simple. Much like a cow is to food.
Kind a like the speed limit, it's illegal to do 60 mph in a 55mph speed zone...but hey everybodies doing it, right? |
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Location: Rhinelander | Gander Mountain Guide brought a topic of interest here, and makes a good point; if you get caught transporting bait off the lake live and in a bucket or livewell of water, it will cost you about $600.00 in fines. It's the law, agree with it or not, and I'll not take the chance for several reasons, not the least of which is financial.
Here's a flyer by the DNR my son Keith is distributing in his work.
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | From top to bottom, this might be one of the toughest to abide by and enforce fish and game rules/laws to come along in a long time. Used to be pretty easy for the majority of years I've been fishing. Don't keep fish to short or any over your limit. And if the gradual spread of the Zebra Mussel taught us anything, it was that it is indeed almost impossible to keep these kinds of things from spreading. And all of you who have read other threads on this board concerning VHS, know I have a small grasp and a major concern about the final prognosis of this VHS problem.
But the bottom line is this. I never liked going 55 MPH back in the late 70's. Never liked stopping at those stop signs out in the middle of nowhere, where I never seen another vehicle coming from any direction. Really hated putting on my seat belt every time I got in the truck. All these rules/laws were supposedly enacted to either save me from myself or save a resource we all use. My personal view of each one and how often I broke these rules/laws was indeed my own choice and responsibility. And I could/would always site just how silly I thought each one of these rules/laws were when I was handed the citation.
I still think some of the these things on the books are silly. But since I've aged, I at least see the value of trying to change the perseved course of a train wreck if I possibly can. And if my example (rather seen when with others, observed from a distence, heard or written about in even the smallest forums) helps others make their own responsible decisions to help out, then I at least tried contributing to the solution and not the problem.
Edited by walleye express 12/20/2007 8:55 AM
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| DNR Warden: Hey hold it right there... where did you get those minnows from? Fisherman: I purchased them from the guy in the bait shop at the boat landing 10 feet behind you. DNR Warden: I saw you approach your boat with a bucket and then turn back and walk 5 feet to the cab of your truck.. what are you trying to hide? Fisherman: Nothing officer, I just forgot my cigarettes in the cab. DNR Warden: Don't talk smart to me young man, I saw you clearly trying to transport minnows away from the shoreline, now turn around and put your hands on your head and don't try anything funny like dumping your minnows on the shoreline. "Waterfront property owners or those staying at accommodations with shoreline frontage can keep their minnows in a bait container attached to a dock or boat on that waterbody, with their name and address clearly marked on the container when left unattended. As long as the minnows are not being transported away from the water, bank or shore they may be kept live for later use on that waterbody. " PLeeeease..... Have I just stepped into a parallel universe?? Have we seriously lost all common sense? After reading the links Larry attached, I now realize that anytime you step near the water, you are now breaking the law in some way and we will all have to have an environmental Attorney accompany us any time we venture near the water. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Purple.
Your going to have to do something even I still have trouble doing. That's trusting that the C.O. will consider that these new laws are very confusing, and will use some common sense and the discretion he's allowed in his assessment of the facts and determining your true intent of the violation as he sees them. Nit picking or entrapment in the fashion you described, would be very bad press for DNR law enforcement and wouldn't look so good on or in the paper. I reasonably cannot see it getting that bad. Or at least lest I hope not.
Edited by walleye express 12/20/2007 12:15 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | It's not going to be easy to enforce, but abiding by the law will be pretty simple. Keith explained that the wardens here will be strictly enforcing the laws, and the 'line of demarcation' so to speak will be the edge of the water; at least here in Northern Wisconsin.
If you keep extra bait in the truck, it's be obvious where it is and what you are doing. Some latitude will have to be allowed because of the proximity of parking to the water on some lakes and rivers.
Simply put, after you cross the line at water's edge with your bait, before you cross that line back to land, your bait buckets need to have dead bait and no water in them. Same with livewells and fish, fish in buckets, etc. Most anglers will simply want to dump the bait on the ice, which is also not acceptable and one of the biggest sticking points in the law, IMHO.
So it's not hard to abide by the law. Buy fewer minnows at once. If you think you might need more bait later in the day, keep some in a cooler in the truck; at least in the cooler weather periods. Make sure you empty your bait containers of water and kill any remaining bait before you leave the lake. it's easy for the enforcement folks to determine if you are going out on the water, or returning form fishing to load up. If you are pulling the boat out, your bait needs to be dead. All fish harvested that day, too. I'll be going to iced coolers for my fish next summer, I guess, just to avoid the hassle of using and emptying COMPLETELY the livewell.
Is it a silly law? Depends on what you know about VHS and what your perspective is on the cost of bait VS your personal commitment to the health of the fishery. 40% of the available adult population of Muskies were killed by VHS on St Clair last year. If I can assist in avoiding that sort of kill on walleyes, muskies, and other gamefish by abiding by the law, I guess I will do that even if it seems silly 'out of the box'.
I can guarantee one thing; if VHS shows up and smacks the population of gamefish in any lake in Wisconsin, the howling from the public that the LOCAL DNR DID NOT do enough to protect them from disaster will be just as loud or louder than the indignation at the new laws. Hard to win, if you know what I mean.
PS has a point that the law as written seems to invite accidental or at least unintentional infractions, especially by shore fishermen. Complicated is way too simple a term.
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| Don't forget the third bait bucket to transport your minnows from the truck to your group on the water. |
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Location: Rhinelander | All you need to do is make sure when you hit shore to go get more bait is that your bucket in the boat is empty. No need for a third bucket if you're out of bait.
How about a little Devil's advocacy here:
What would you have the DNR do to slow the spread of this disease? Should livewell water and fish, bait and bilge water be allowed to transfer from Bay of Green Bay, for example, to Lake George down the road from my house? Especially if VHS is known to be a problem in the Great Lakes? I know of several folks who fished Bay of Green Bay this fall and then fished lakes around my house and transported bait and water between the two. Should nothing be done at all, or should all possible measures be taken to protect the fishery from VHS piggybacking in on fishing boats?
Admittedly, there is not yet even consensus how transfer of the virus takes place. Maybe this will change as the scientists dealing with the issue learn more about the disease and transmission.
Keep in mind the bilge, cooler/baitwell, and other compartment draining regs apply to ALL boats, even jetskis. Will power boaters be as conscious as we are? No. But I'll make darned sure they are aware of the law I have to abide by as an angler, just because I will want to spread the word, and the 'misery'. The Lake Association Invasive Species folks will also be active, and can and will report violators who openly flaunt the new regs. Try backing in to Pelican Lake with Eurasian Milfoil on your axle, and tell the volunteer checking for exotics to buzz off. The warden will be visiting, and soon. |
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| I'm trying to relate how this will affect the average guy who fishes the Wolf or Fox river in Spring.... keep in mind, I don't ice fish and I have a 5 year supply of flies I'ved tied so I have a lot of time to think.
I still don't understand why you have to regulate the end user of minnows if you already have stringent regulations on the bait dealers.
Isn't the water in the bait bucket we are worried about and not the bait... and if so, how does dumping the water from your bucket which came from an unknow source help the situation.
They better not start messing with crawlers or they will have an army of guys from the NCA protesting in Madison and things could get ugly.... |
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Location: Rhinelander | Here's the scenario, PS:
I buy suckers in Rhinelander from a VHS free certified source. I then go fish the Winnebago system, adding that water to the suckers in my livewell or bucket to 'keep them alive'. Then I leave Winnebago, and go to Pewaukee, and in the process of 'keeping my suckers alive' I dump most of the Winnebago water into Pewaukee exchanging fresh for not fresh water in the bucket or livewell/baitwell. Then, I dump the remaining suckers in Silver on day two, and they are infected by the virus in Winnebago...I've infected Pewaukee and Silver in two days.
Bank fishing can present a similar scenario.
You are dead on about the Crawlers... |
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| Shame on you, Steve. infecting two places in two days  .....but yes, it's that easy.
"I know of several folks who fished Bay of Green Bay this fall and then fished lakes around my house and transported bait and water between the two. Should nothing be done at all, or should all possible measures be taken to protect the fishery from VHS piggybacking in on fishing boats? "
The knowing somebody else is doing it part is just like knowing someone that double dips and takes two limits. It happens, people know people who do it, but nohting gets done about it. I dont know a simple solution, wish I did. But it's here and it's going to spread and we'll have to learn to adapt. |
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Location: Rhinelander | True enough sir. by the way, the folks I was taking about fished both bodies of water before the emergency regs went into effect. At as much as $5 a pop, suckers are going to be in premium demand next year since we have to kill them before moving to another lake, and buy a new supply every day. Oh well, I enjoyed the sport for a couple years, back to gliders until ice-up. |
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Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | This is going to sound a little childish, but I always liked the idea of dumping my living unused portion of minnows back in the drink. Most (if not all) were/are native to and taken from the same waters I fish anyway's. I always figured the ones that were left in the pale after a days fishing earned the right to be set free. Kinda like winning the lottery if you will. They would at least stand an even chance of living, feeding hungry predator fish species in those same waters or maybe even reproduce in their new surroundings. I'm still kinda glad we in Michigan don't have to start crushing heads of unused bait yet. |
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| Ah, now it's crystal clear.....I know where VHS came from, Saginaw bay and Dan's bucket! |
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| Dan, what you said is not to far from the truth, Dumping live bait back in the lake has been illegal for many years in WI, hardly enforced but still illegal. There are plenty of guys out there that continue to dump live bait in the lake when they are done. and some double dippers for sure.
Maybe some don't know the rules but more importantly knowing why that rule was created for in the first place might give insight to those that refuse to follow this new rule.
Simply put the DNR creates these rules not to earn revenue or piss off anglers but rather to educate and assist us in becoming more concientious about our own behaviors so we can be stewards of our sport! Disobeying them is just silly, when really the glass is half full, not empty.
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "40% of the available adult population of Muskies were killed by VHS on St Clair last year."
Do you have a link for an article that talks about that? I had heard an estimate of around 5000 fish but I would have guessed that number to be far less than 40% of the population. I'm not saying your wrong, just that I want to learn more.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jayman, hardly doubt that VHS started in saginaw Bay, there pollutants are like no other. VHS cannot get a start there, hahahahahaaa |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Here's an interesting Read.
Jayman you'll find it very interesting:
http://www.stopvhsfishvirus.com/GeneralInfo.html |
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Location: Rhinelander | Brad B,
That estimate came from Larry Ramsell's fisheries biologist source over there, and has been widely quoted this year. I think there's a reference to the totals and the source information on MuskieFIRST.
5000 muskies represents a massive number when considering Muskie year class survival and average population densities, even on LSC.
A strong trophy muskie population is frequently less than one fish per acre, and the upper portion of the population represents a small fraction of that number. |
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| Thanks Dennis that is a VERY compelling article to dispose of bait, If MN is considering eliminating live bait I am even more compeled to understand if we could have done the same thing or better yet why didn't we do that?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Thanks Steve. Much appreciated. |
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Location: Menasha, WI | tyee - 12/20/2007 8:33 PM Thanks Dennis that is a VERY compelling article to dispose of bait, If MN is considering eliminating live bait I am even more compeled to understand if we could have done the same thing or better yet why didn't we do that? Good Luck Tyee Maybe I missed something but Dennis' link doesn't mention anything about a live bait ban in MN nor have I seen any other suggestions of that kind. Can you elaborate on your comments tyee? |
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