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Member
Posts: 625
Location: LaCrosse, WI | To CT,
I just want to clarify since you brought me up. If you come on to a forum like this and spew unwarranted accusations without any fact you will probably be questioned. I don't blindly defend tournaments just because, but will not stand for someone with a personal vendetta making accusations that could affect people’s livelihoods just because they didn't like something.
Tournament anglers and organizations rely heavily on sponsors and their dollars. Public bashes of specific people or organizations without fact to back it up are just irresponsible. You want to be respected and listened to like an adult, then act like one.
We live in the world of political correctness, and sites like WalleyeFirst and any others that you may frequent pretty much have their hands tied. If they want to work with any tournament organizations, they can not publish hearsay as fact. Show me a website where everybody can say whatever they please without anybody else defending it and I'll be glad to take a look.
Over the last month we've seen some imaginary numbers thrown out without any evidence to their validity. Now another user is telling us that every tournament angler is a cheater. If a person actually cared about tournament fishing, they would never make a public statement like that. I know for a fact that I've never kept an illegally hooked fish just because I was in a tournament. I do take offense to being called a cheater when I've worked so hard to make sure that I do not do those types of things.
I have had my arguments with a few regulars on this site, but I can see those guys at an event and go up and talk to them. The reason for that is I know who they are and even though we disagree on some things, we have the same overall goals in mind. Level headed debate is one thing, but blatant personal attacks are un-necessary. |
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| Rich, I may have to re-visit that post, I do recall lots of chat about it and many negative opinions with regards to conditions and so forth.
What I don't get is why you and others always have to throw shots out there like "unsuccessful tournament angler" or getting bullied as I sat alone on a tetter totter.
Why not actually read the post and answer my question rather than taking shots at me. Why does spring valley get locked in and none of the others ? Simple question, I mean if it's supposed to change around then why not that one? Very simple question.
BY the way I only did one tourney last year, it was a very popular large one and I cashed a nice check, so I think that is somewhat successful. |
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Member
Posts: 1656
| Whoa, whoa whoa....let me get this right first, CT.
You throw the first stone and then tell me I'm the immature one since you disagree with my opinion? It's all making sense now. hahaha Thanks, that was funny and I needed some laughter.
For the record, I'm not a controller, or moderator or whatever you think it is. Probably the furthest thing from the truth. Also this isn't the first time you've "called me out", so perhaps you have a bone to pick? I'm all ears.
Back to the thread at hand.
I agree with Rich I believe the economy will take it's toll on more tournament anglers, I see numbers as a whole being down. Sure some circuits will be up while others will be down, but less players as a whole.
From a traveling aspect, I like the schedule. I like that the MWC has expended to add the West. I'm sure the people out West that have traveled to fish the Central will appreciate it too. For the Central, there seems to be some complaint about the dates, but really it's semantics at best, fish will be caught will it be a great bite vs a good bite? Who knows, it's different every year. But one thing I've learned over the years, put tournament anglers in a place where the bite is not a traditonal time and people still seem to unlock new secrets.
BNB, I have one question for you also, If it is so wrong for a tournament circuit to make money and collect sponsor dollars or venue dollars. Why don't you run a 100% pay out circuit and do it for "free" on your own time, not collect a penny and give the rest to the anglers?
Edited by Jayman 10/7/2008 10:34 AM
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| CT - 10/7/2008 10:30 AM
Rich, I may have to re-visit that post, I do recall lots of chat about it and many negative opinions with regards to conditions and so forth.
What I don't get is why you and others always have to throw shots out there like "unsuccessful tournament angler" or getting bullied as I sat alone on a tetter totter.
Why not actually read the post and answer my question rather than taking shots at me. Why does spring valley get locked in and none of the others ? Simple question, I mean if it's supposed to change around then why not that one? Very simple question.
BY the way I only did one tourney last year, it was a very popular large one and I cashed a nice check, so I think that is somewhat successful.
Congrats on the check!
I surely did not mean that as a shot to anyone. It is very unfortunate things are the way they are right now and I feel horrible for everyone affected.
I am a positive person. I can't comprehend why some people chime in and rant nothing but negativity. All that does is make matters worse and puts everyone in a foul mood. If we turned that focus and intensity to the positive we might be able to make things better. As for the initial question, I did answer it in my first response. Good luck next year! |
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| thanks Rich |
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| Hey BAD NEWS BOB....You are quoted in the previous heated debate saying the MWC is gonna be dead in the water!!! Well the schedule is out... they have increased there events haven't they. Just wanted to remind you of some of your gospel so others are aware. Good Luck |
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Member
Posts: 40
| Guys, the schedule is out, it's done. Regardless of how much is paid or not paid, how many years in a row it's been at Spring Valley, etc., etc.
Let's keep a couple of things in mind:
First, while at times temperamental, or even outright hazardous, the Illinois River has also had some phenomenal bites. Jigging, pulling floaters, handlining, it's all been successful.
Secondly, even if the town of Spring Valley didn't pay a cent to host the MWC, the facilities and volunteers would MORE than make up for it. The Spring Valley Boat Club, as well as the Spring Valley Walleye Club, have ALWAYS made sure that everyone has been treated exceptionally well, and provided an outstanding tournament experience. Give them a little credit. Why wouldn't you want to hold a tournament there when they make it so easy and trouble free year after year?
If you don't like the Spring Valley tournament, don't fish it. If you don't like the MWC, don't fish it. But, to read the hearsay and bashing that's going on in these posts, it's just sad.
I'm out. |
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| Well said Mike. That sums it up pretty good. |
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| I see, so never question anything, lay down and accept everything we are told, and if someone/place is unfairly given more than others well that is just too bad.
As I said before, never say anything questioning any tourney, director, circuit , or boat make cause on here that means you get bashed. Thanks for reinforcing my point!! |
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Location: Rhinelander | ct,
I'm not a 'controller', far from it.
Folks can and do say plenty any one of us might not agree with; what would be the point of a discussion or debate if that didn't happen? What's being missed here is Dan said he READ that one of the fish caught and entered in that event was snagged. If I read what was originally posted correctly, and I think I did, his point was that the Illinois River is a time bomb for a tournament trail in the early spring that WILL (and in fact did) go off, creating the atmosphere where posts like the one Dan remembers reading are not uncommon. The event was without question a PR disaster, and from most perspectives with 20/20 hindsight vision, perhaps should have been rescheduled.
I believe that was his point, that there may indeed be a better choice of location out there somewhere for an early MWC.
I read that comment too, in fact it was posted here a couple times and was removed, and for good reason. Now...look at the result. Someone posts a nasty, mean spirited comment as fact. Someone ELSE posted they read that comment.
Someone read it, referenced it, and then was accused of authoring the comment, completely out of the intended context. It's really too bad anyone read that stuff at all.
BNB, the original, not the other guy who made a point by using your moniker:
Fluff? Wow what a revelation, tournament organizations hold events where it economically beneficial to do so! Oh my GOD!!! Tournaments are about the MONEY?? Companies and communities want PROMOTION and will PAY for it??
what?
I think it's a testament to the MWC IF the Spring Valley area pays them at all.
You overstate the obvious over and over, adding sensationalistic rhetoric, and then expect we will all gasp in revelation...your point about Muskegon isn't really relevant, because the catch on the Illinois River is usually REALLY good. I see the Illinois River issue being a couple events out of all held there, one which was discussed above.
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Posts: 744
| CT- Do you also question Kellogg's on their cereal production choices? Or Mattel on Barbie's outfits? Or maybe you've sent emails to Blue Bunny complaining of their ice cream flavors?
No? Then why do it here. The product is offered to you. Buy or don't. You have no say in the matter.
Edited by thumper 10/7/2008 2:12 PM
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Posts: 1656
| Playing favorites, eh, Steve?
Why let Capt Dan READ and take out of context, and imply the Stuefen Brothers cheated by snagging a fish in the MWC tournament they won? you're all about facts, Where's Dan's facts? Huh?
Nice double standard. |
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Posts: 40
| CT, I never bashed anyone, please don't accuse me of it.
I simply said, and I quote, "If you don't like the Spring Valley tournament, don't fish it. If you don't like the MWC, don't fish it."
I'll stand by that. There are a lot of other tournaments to fish.
Edited by walleyedmike 10/7/2008 2:28 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | I don't have any 'favorites', Jayman, and have met Dan a couple times and talked to him a total of maybe 2 minutes.
Uhhh, no. I believe I stated exactly what was said before some editing took place and how I personally interpreted same. I didn't see any direct accusations, just an argument (including what WAS posted at the time) between a Juls and DAN that got heated, IMHO because they have a past history of arguing. He said he read that comment. So did I. He said fish get snagged in rivers AFTER he had been accused as you just accused...semantics aside, I honestly don't think he was accusing anyone directly from what I read. You missed my point, and missed what was gong on under current in that exchange, too.
The posts accusing the winners of snagging that single fish WERE here and didn't require anyone to change the context---the posts were pretty direct. I deleted them myself. There was plenty of support for that nasty post, too, I might add, but because the entire argument was pure speculation, it wasn't left up. Face it, some folks who may not know the winners and are not familiar with their personal ethics might believe that it is possible the fish was snagged. Answer this question...why would one unfortunately believe that? it has nothing to DO with who won, it has to do with the fact they caught only ONE fish, and there were only 4 caught...and some folks freely admitted to releasing snagged fish...the event was a PR nightmare. I think that was Dan's point, he can correct me if I am wrong. My point was the event should perhaps have been rescheduled when fish might actually be caught by the bulk of good anglers in that field, and more than 4 would come in to the scales under conditions that bred widespread discontent amongst anglers and fans.
Since when is encouraging fair play ALL THE WAY AROUND a double standard?
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| and if I don't like it I can say so
and actually I can call any company and complain about their products, actually most companies have a specific office and personnel for consumer complaints satisfaction. I wouls think MWC directors actually would like to hear what fishermen like or dislike about locations
oh, and sorry you still play w/Barbie Dolls (ok, I ad,mit that was my first personal shot) |
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| sworrall - 10/7/2008 2:36 PM
Uhhh, no. I believe I stated exactly what was said before some editing took place. I didn't see any direct accusations, just an argument including what WAS posted at the time between a WC moderator and DAN that got heated because of past disagreements . He said he read that comment. So did I. he said fish get snagged in rivers AFTER he had been accused as you just accused...semantics aside, I honestly don't think he was accusing anyone directly from what I read. You missed my point, and missed what was gong on under current in that exchange, too.
The posts accusing the winners of snagging that single fish WERE here, I deleted them myself.
Since when is encouraging fair play ALL THE WAY AROUND a double standard?
Hey, Dan and I weren't arguing! He saw something you deleted that some of us didn't see.
He brought it up again, which if it was deleted the first time, should be a good indicator that it shouldn't be brought to life again...right?
That's all I was saying, and he GOT that. I thanked him for making his thoughts more clear in that, it wasn't his intention to accuse the winners of cheating (which is the way it came across initially). We weren't arguing or slamming each other like others are doing here. LOL Sheesh....
Now, tell me, why do I have to be referenced as a "WC Moderator" instead of by the name I use here?
That's what I call an "under current" if I ever read one...and, for that, I'm going to kick you in the shin when I see you next week, just so ya know. lol;)
Juls |
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Member
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| Why can he say the fish were snagged then? True or not there are no facts to back his statement.
It's a cheap shot from somebody pounding their chest that doesn't even play the game. I only suggested that person step-up and play before they mis-quote what they read on some internet website. It's called showing a little respect for the winners. Instead of tarnishing a great job that the winning team did. Weather they like it or not, there is a set of rules that the game is played by and every player knew it. Every player probably prefished it and every player probably knew it was coming. And every player had the right to contest it. Those are the facts.
You editing/deleting posts is no more than taking things out context also. It changes the "story". |
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Location: Rhinelander | I sees what's I sees, Juls. You two were exchanging words, punctuated by desriptives. He actually tried to clarify what he meant as a result. I'll post your name instead, edit completed. Don't you dare kick me, or I'll have to complain to Rick!
And no, just because something is removed from a message board here or on WC doesn't make it less the poster's opinion, and it's a shame (point made again) that the situation bred that sort of malcontent.
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| "You overstate the obvious over and over, adding sensationalistic rhetoric, and then expect we will all gasp in revelation"-Steve W to BNB
Steve, can I use this as my signature? It is like poetry to me:) |
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Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
I didn't edit any posts here. Look at the posts, if it says 'edited by' there you have it. I will not remove any, either, unless they contain a vendetta or personal attack. Hmmm...well, against someone else, anyway. 
I'll stand with my original interpretation of what was said; you interpret it any way you want, but I'd ask you to look at the entire exchange again. Knowing what WAS said ( and not just once) at the time of the event, it's easy to see how that rumor got started and how the question might be asked again, and Dan posted it in the form of a question, did he not? If it was a question, is it not reasonable to say that those who have created in ther own words an accusation out of what was a question are furthering the very rumor they seek to squelch?
if you read the exchange carefully, the question may be construed to NOT even be about the team you mentioned, as it was, and I quote, 'one winning fish' mentioned. Juls pointed out 4 were caught. All 4 won a position and a considerable amount of money, as was published by the PR after the event.
Perspective.
Juls straightened him out on that question, too, a bit over zealously, but that's OK, she read the question as you do, not as a general statement of what some of the commentary was at the time. Correct? Then he tried to clarify what point he was attempting to make. Correct? Is this not how 'facts' are arrived at in a conversation or debate?
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| Steve, I see one of my posts missing, correct? See how the story gets changed...
I understood exactly what Dan and Juls were discussing I also pulled out one simple statement which I've stated before and contested, obviously.
Now if CT is that upset about a "personal attack" for saying he played on the teeter totter by himself, well then he should think about the check he cashed and think about the check the MWC winners cashed and then think how he'd feel to be called a cheater by someone that doesn't play the game. Deleted or not.
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Location: Rhinelander | You again missed or choose to ignore my entire point. |
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Member
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| CT - 10/7/2008 2:38 PM
and if I don't like it I can say so
and actually I can call any company and complain about their products, actually most companies have a specific office and personnel for consumer complaints satisfaction. I wouls think MWC directors actually would like to hear what fishermen like or dislike about locations
And I would think that if no one fished in the Spring Valley tournament, they would realize a change needed to be made. Guess what? That's never happened in all of the years it's been there. Many years even had a waiting list.
Actions speak louder than words. Don't fish it. |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | I will stay out of the fight some of you have going, but I just read the thread from the start and Dans statement:
Not trying to start any crap here. But isn't that first one the one that gets flooded out every year? And didn't one fish win it last year and everybody figured that one winning fish was snagged?
If it was me that won, well, I would be less than thrilled at this point. And sorry, from a guy who does start alot of crap, Dan, by saying "Not trying to start crap", well, I take it like you are trying to start some. If your point was to tell us we need a change of playing fields because the unpredictability of spring valley water levels, Why did you need to throw in the snagging thing?
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| sworrall - 10/7/2008 4:11 PM
Juls straightened him out on that question, too, a bit over zealously, but that's OK, she read the question as you do, not as a general statement of what some of the commentary was at the time. Correct? Then he tried to clarify what point he was attempting to make. Correct? Is this not how 'facts' are arrived at in a conversation or debate?
Really? Ya think that was over zealous? Hmmmm...didn't feel that way when I was typing it, or reading it.
If that's the case, then I sincerely apologize to Capt Dan for my over zealousness.
Either way, he cleared it up and is off the hook in my book. I have no more issues in this thread, so I'm gone.
Buh-bye!
Juls
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