|
|
| "moms a cooking and cleaning class"
I bet you voted for Hillary too, huh Stacker? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | hahahahahahahahahahaa..........ok, let dad go, I guess you just dont get the point.hahahahahaaha it did sound funny. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 39
| Maybe its time for us to look at including "outdoor sciences" into the public education system at the middle school and high school levels?
Give all youths the chance to at least read and study a little about what is outside the big city limits. If something like that could prevent even 1% of the kids in the big city schools from becoming a life long criminal or "gang banger" it would be worth it. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 105
| Well, I am smack dab in the middle of this right now. My oldest daughter fished her first walleye tourney when she was 5, She loves going with me and so does the youngest. This year my oldest will be playing on a traveling fastpitch softball team, 5 weekend tourneys starting in late May and going through mid august. Her fishing time will decrease,and mine to, if your kids have any skill in any sport these days they must play on these teams,or they will never have the oppertunity to play at the High School level. My neibor has a son and I have taken them him out in the boat exactly 1 time, every weekend is filled with football,baseball and wrestling from april through October and practice twice a week to boot. They do ice fish alot manly because time of the year allows it. In my opinion this is where the kids have went instead of fishing, unless their parents or parent are avid outdoors folks most kids won't develop the love for our sport that we have. Kitch  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Is there really a problem? Maybe nationwide but not so much here in WI?
Resident annual License sold in WI
1999=600684
2000=616802
2001=626712
2002=637288
2003=657997
2004=649986
2005=652642
2006=657842
2007=668823
Combined to include Annual and husband and wife
1999 unavail.
2000=833548
2001=842702
2002=849123
2003=873257
2004=859996
2005=865860
2006=879532
2007=897361
Non-Resident
1999=101735
2000=105078
2001=104559
2002=106324
2003=107617
2004=101983
2005=101400
2006=92748
2007=93248
Non-Resident Family
1999=31016
2000=31305
2001=30636
2002=30502
2003=30414
2004=29632
2005=30249
2006=33109
2007=41380
Non-Resident 4 day declined but the NR 15 day has steadily increased with nearly 35000 sold in 2007.
When you add in Sturgeon, Great Lakes and Inland Trout you get a total of licenses sold:
2002=1281284
2003=1278145
2004=1271499
2005=1260351
2006=1256684
2007=1279407
No substantial gains or losses in my opinion! There are lots of ways to analyze data but the argument that fishing in WI is suffering because we are loosing license sales is wrong, now if you compile the ages of those purchasing these licenses it might paint a different picture, and it would be purely speculation so we have to take the plan as laid out and accept it.
Good Luck
Tyee |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | Funny stuff Denny! I wondered how long it would take to get a response from that post  |
|
| |
|
| kids under 16 dont need a license in wisc so the number are a reflection on adults not kids! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Rich S - 2/6/2009 8:21 AM
Funny stuff Denny! I wondered how long it would take to get a response from that post :)
Most have a hard time seeing beyond there scrutinizing nose, that for sure. Let me tell you a story.
Dad and son planned a first time ever fishing trip for saturday and dad ended up having to work. Mom seen son crying so she said she would take him. neither had ever fished so they went to the bait shop, got a pole and worms and found a spot on a lake with some shade. mom did not want to put the crawlers on but gaged and did it, they caught 3 little gills. took them home. she cooked them and she gaged them down. Just then dad came in and asked how the day went and she was thinking smelly fish, crawlers, hot and 3 little fish. The son answered it was great. he said the lake was calm and the birds were singing and they sat on a flat rock and watched a duck go by and watched the ripples from it. they skipped stones and took a nap. They had a great day. He said nothing about the fishing.
Thats what I was getting at. Teach the family how to fish, not just a kid. They see things differently then adults. Thats what fishing is for, Memories and that is what we all have from our years. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | TYee, thanks for the numbers, it would be cool if they can a 10 year range on ages to further analyze what age groups are playing. Kind of like spawning years on walleyes, where is the recruitment coming from. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 39
| guest - 2/6/2009 9:48 AM
kids under 16 dont need a license in wisc so the number are a reflection on adults not kids!
Thats true, but if those numbers drop that tells us that more license aged people are dropping out of fishing than there are getting into it, hence the question....recruitment -vs- retention. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jack, the problem I can see with your retention vs. recruitment is you have no bench mark in which to follow the under age fisherman (recruitment). Only the license buyers have a bench mark. If they would or could do a 10 year split on the license buyers then you would have a better bench mark. Are older people getting in, or younger people getting out? Otherwise, the bench mark we have to follow is a very broad spectrum. |
|
| |
|
| im 22 years old and not to many of my freinds like to fish. My brothers do not like to fish other than if i make them go with me. i think fishing clubs should be put together in schools starting maybe in grade school. i like how they have the college fishing but that doesnt get kids into fishing. im young and i dont see to much hope for the fishing industry from kids my age and younger. Not just tournys.. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Here's more food for thought, Jack
In 2004 we sold 128k non resident 4 day licenses, in 2007 we sold 99k.
When I first saw this decline I thought to meself, Self, Our licenses are so cheap they must be buying annuals or 15 day but both of those have been consistantly declining as well (15 day has been between 32k and 35k for 9 years and the annual was 101k in 1999 and now is 93k) Then I thought well the Muskies are bigger in MN so those Vikings are staying home more and no longer come here, then I thought maybe the Bass tourney folk just gave up on our culling law and no longer come. Or maybe those to the south of us have spent so much money for recreational property up here they can't afford to fish any more. Either way non-resident anglers are declining.
In addition to the number of licenses sold above we also sold 67200 Resident Patron Licenses in 1999, it grew to 81,000 in 2003 and has diminished to 56,559 in 2007.
Although the most intriguing to me are the number of Winnebago Sturgeon Licenses sold, In 1999 there were 40271 and in 2007 there were 8897....seems that in 2003 there were changes as we lost 25000 in one year or theres atypo in my spreadsheet. Can any of you spearers enlighten me on this one?
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 2/9/2009 5:08 PM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 39
| Tom, Wisconsin is not the only state loosing non resident license sales. We all are, plus all the states have dropping resident license sales also.
Where are all the fishermen going, are they all just dropping out, or are they just never getting into the game? Has our emphasis on "tournaments" turned the potential casual fisherman away from the sport for fear of not fitting into the precieved niche associated with being an accomplished fisherman? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Jack, I do not think that we have the correct information to make a decision regarding where are all the fishermen going. We have a lot, but we do not have the final pieces. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1314
Location: Menasha, WI | Just a thought, but it seems that discussing the intersection of license sales and youth is really missing the point. Shouldn't we be teach young people to fish because it is a good thing in and of itself? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Viking, I think that would be another whole topic.
This one was brought up as a subject of falling license sales and the blame being fingered out as the youth are just not fishing. We do not have that proof as we speak. I think we need to know things before the problem can be fingered. I have thoughts but they are not documented. I believe the documentation can found.
As for it being the right thing to do, as with all community service work, I believe it to be what one feels in there own heart. |
|
| |
|
| "Although the most intriguing to me are the number of Winnebago Sturgeon Licenses sold, In 1999 there were 40271 and in 2007 there were 8897....seems that in 2003 there were changes as we lost 25000 in one year or theres atypo in my spreadsheet. Can any of you spearers enlighten me on this one?"
I believe that is the year DNR started charging CP applicants for the tags. Prior to that, if you purchased a CP license, the sturgeon tag was included. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| That is absolutely correct, Brad. The sturgeon tag became it's own license, for sturgeon harvest data and financial reasons. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Jack your incorrect, WI has gained 68,000 Resident License sales in the last 9 years. No decline here. I can understand the loss of non-resident as all tourism has declined. Your point of decreasing license sales is related to the total of license sales is it not? because that includes trout, sturgeon, non-resident and others but overall general resident license sales are increasing.
Here you go Stacker now you have all the information you need to form an opinion. The numbers tell us that the middle aged people are the concern not so much the elderly or the young IMO. I guess, as I am in this age bracket, I am like many others with my priorities in life where work becomes more or a priority. Once we get near retirement ages the numbers grow again. It also tells me that unless we create jobs in the fishing industry we won't ever see growth. and fishing is a recreation. If you make it like work fewer people will enjoy it. I think we could use a bail out stimulous package.
Thanks Brad for clarifying that it really tells the number of spearers better.
Age 2007 2005 2003
12yrs-20 79387 73431 82015
21-30 179419 177,407 180,555
31-40 185165 195408 219661
41-50 238537 244996 248428
51-60 183694 175477 164158
61-70 109914 103782 97487
71-80 46974 43502 34480
80+ 2837 85 88
Total 1025927 1014088 1026872
Age data is only compiled biannually so this is all the farther back I gan get.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 2/10/2009 12:02 PM
|
|
| |
|
| I think 99" was also the year DNR started cutting short the season due to kill quoto's. It use to be 10day spearing and alot of guys gave it up after the season were cut short .............  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Tyee, that is great work.
Now, if you look at the numbers, as you said, you would say that the middle age people are the ones that have been declining. Who are these people and why are they having such a effect on the numbers? Because they are baby boomers and there numbers are bigger than other generations. There kids have grown and they have been blessed with great jobs for most there lives and they are now going to do other things because they can afford it.
In wisconsin, we are looking good. I would think we need to do more prevention verses recruitment. Keep upping the quality of there experience. They will tell others.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 859
Location: Appleton wi | I'd like to see more jig fisherman on bago retire and stop clogging up the neenah reefs..............Hahaha ........ i remember the day before everyone had gps and a guy could troll them all he wanted and share them with the few jiggers who could find them! Good ol days!
Edited by eye Lunker 2/10/2009 2:11 PM
|
|
| |
|
| There are probably over one thousand reasons why kids are no longer as interested in angling as we may have been when we were young. If it would help to correct this perceived "problem" then perhaps some group should initiate a summit to document the plethora of changes.... Don't forget that there's really nobody to BLAME here as we all contribute to the changes of time. How many own electronic gadget advancements that most people like to BLAME. While placing BLAME might help some chest pounders feel good within themselves I don't think it moves this perceived "problem" one ounce in any direction.
How about talking about ways to get folks of ALL ages back on the waters? People of all ages seem to enjoy a nice day of fishing and hopefully the catching ain't too bad either..... Maybe followed up by a fish fry.....
For those that feel there isn't a MAJOR reduction in the numbers of young people fishing I really challenge your logic. For the past 10 years I've spent a solid 100 plus days fishing all over the midwest. Trust me I RARELY see any anglers under the age of 30. Gramps started putting a pole in my hand on Lake of the Woods in 1963 when I was 3. There were many, many kids my age that I could play with when we returned to shore...... I've been back to LOTW's many times since 1963 and I see very few kids hanging around on shore or floatin' in the boat...
Just my observations and thanks to Jack for this thought provoking thread!
Kurt |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Well, Kturner, I always say that numbers don't lie, and the numbers say that the 40-50 year olds are the ones dropping out. Fact is the 20-30 are the prime parents as there children are still young. They are also the years people have kids and take them fishing. If they are buying licenses I hafta' guess there kids are fishing also. We will see a insurgence when 2 licenses turn to 4 with the kids getting over 16.
I agree though, that it would be alot of fun if someone would have a "fish with a pro" day. The public brings there own boat, and someone like us volunteer time to go fishing with them for 6 hours. Just mom and dad. teach them technics and such without having to hire a guide. Catching is fun so the more catching they do, the more of a chance of little billy wanting to take his buddy bobby and then bobbys dad gets all fired up, it can happen quickly, not a time honored process either. Have a fish fry when done and talk about things.
Focus on the whole family thing. Just hope for a great day.
Edited by stacker 2/10/2009 3:12 PM
|
|
| |
