Walleye Discussion Forums
| ||
| View previous thread :: View next thread | |
| Jump to page : < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... > Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> 'Teams' in Pro Walleye Angling..Opinions? |
| Message Subject: 'Teams' in Pro Walleye Angling..Opinions? | |||
stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Steve Fellegy - 5/27/2010 4:49 PM Closed practice was in place for at least a couple whole seasons on the PWT. Various lengths of 4 days or 5 days of practice was used. All it did was increase the use of local info and made for more crowding of tourney anglers on community spots. The anglers decided, by majority vote, to end closed practice periods. I think that was about 12-14 years ago. Times have changed and the teams have become more agressive than they were back then. They have morphed into bad animal. | ||
| |||
| Tommy Kemos |
| ||
| This is a subject that has been painted with a broad brush. First of all, this is absolutely not a reason to sit on the sidelines of tournament fishing. I started competitive angling because I loved fishing and I loved competition. That is still one of the main reasons I am in the sport today. Besides my family and God it is one of the most important things in my life. I worked my way up through team circuits, exchanging a piece of knowledge here and there. When I thought I was ready to fish with the big dogs, I through my hat in the ring. I fished my 2002 year as a PWT rookie and solo angler. Fishing alone, eating alone, rooming alone. I was fortunate enough to make the Championship that year. Let me tell it was a pretty lonely season. That being said it was the greatest year of tournament fishing I have had. YOU HAVE TO PLAY TO WIN! This is a, "if you cannot beat them join them", deal. There is no way to stop it, so it is kind of silly to even talk about it. What am I doing I should be packing for Brimley! Tommy Kemos | |||
| |||
| Mark O. |
| ||
Member Posts: 192 | While I will never agree with the team thing, I understand why guys do it. When my Dad fished tournaments, very, very few people worked in teams. Thats what I grew up knowing and learning. Times changed and people had to adjust to stay competitive. I just wish it could be different. I don't make a living fishing, so I can approach a tournament any way I like. For those that do it for a living, it's different. Like Tommy said, its definitely a "if you can't beat them, join them" deal. | ||
| |||
| tyee |
| ||
Member Posts: 1406 | You all seem to be saying the same thing.....you will never grow because of teams, and teams are here to stay, Well I don't think we can have it both ways....and as a FAN I think this remains a rich mans sport only to be comapred to Golf as an individual sport, not Nascar where Teams with lots of money win every time. There are many teams that share expenses and winnings, been that way a long time. Is that really right? I and many that I know will NEVER jump in that game. Give me 5 or 10 boats one night a week and 10 or 20 guys that love to fish, the biggest fish takes home the gas money. Your not allowed to prefish and your not allowed to share information and you don't know your partner till you get to the launch, thats my kind of tournament! Bass has it right and everyone needs to look closer at that model, we have enough tourney directors trying to make the big bucks, we need the clubs first. Denny can you imagine only 1 200 or 300 boat tourney on the wolf in the spring with no prefishing for 7 days before? and 20 or 30 club events before that trying to qualify for the big one?.......your "team" is your club, thats it.....share what you want while "learning/teaching the sport but when you make it to the big show it's all up to you and you alone. Good Luck Tyee | ||
| |||
| RNT |
| ||
| It is here to stay and there is no way to stop it…this is the only sport I know of where that could take place. The players dictate to the sport instead of the sport dictating to the players on this subject. If “teams” are going to be tolerated then at least develop the sport into a true “team” activity. Personally the sport would be more interesting to watch if it were a true “team” concept. | |||
| |||
| Sunshine |
| ||
Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | It is what it is………
Two closing thoughts…………
| ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Well, It kind of shows its face. When it all started the guys who were fishing were mostly guides and resort owners. They had good reasons to win a major new event. Since then they have morphed into tournament anglers getting in the game. You knew it was going to be thet way, thats what was built. That is when I believe the game changed. Wickedly large payouts started and everything was blowen out of proportion. What is funny is I play a game with some other avid walleye fans at every flw and aim event. When picking players, you better know what team they are on and what kind of fisherman they prefer to be I.E. Trolling, jigging, rigging....etc... Its here to stay? Hmmmm..... I would believe that SOME who are not playing the GAME any longer are making that choice based on how the game is being played. Edited by stacker 5/28/2010 11:39 AM | ||
| |||
| JohnnyV |
| ||
| Team or no team, you still have to find fish and figure out what thier liking for the hour. I personally don't by the whole people are locals at the lake so they have an advantage. Seems quite the opposite if you look at the history, as the pros put it, "I fished memories and it killed me". Look at Brett King at Green Bay last year, certainly not a local boy, but he and a couple of others figured out the bite, none of them were locals. I did fish with a well know local angler at Green Bay last year, we went in the first day with 5 fish instead of 7 at the AIM event. He has a pretty good size "team" too. Weather switched and it hurt hiim. Don't compare walleye fishing and bass fishing. They are two very different fish. Bass are not exactly known to be finicky. You have to remember, some of these guys do this for a living, they fish. Anyone that knows anything about walleye fishing knows, you can prefish for 14 days straight if you want, bottom line, water drops 10-15 degrees, or a wind switch the night before a tournament, you are starting over anyway. Team or no team, these guys know where the fish should be at most times of the year. Hey, I know maybe we should make sure they all have an HDS 10 too , only fair, not really fair to the guy who can only afford a 522. | |||
| |||
| Chad |
| ||
| I think a good idea would be to put the anglers on a body of water without know wich lake it is and without being able to pre fish. The night before they all get the same packet of info to review which includes lake maps, past fishing reports, etc. | |||
| |||
| Jim Ordway |
| ||
Member Posts: 538 | I do agree that those of us who fish might be at a disadvantage in tourneys but in the same vien, many of us do work information from other friendly sources and sometimes competitors that might throw us a bone when things are desperate during our prefishing trials and disasters. Those who have a lifetime of fishing a body of water with dads, uncles and freinds have a huge advantage over all of us in the game. Those who have fishing tourneys in given waters for years and years also have a jump on the game. Thats life. Through our lives we rely on relationships for jobs, love and survival. If the field is level with honorable competitors, may the best (and somewhat luckiest) team win. Take care, | ||
| |||
| KHedquist |
| ||
Member Posts: 1991 | Well after following this thread, I was little apprehensive about stepping into AIM due to competing against the "Teams". I asked a couple of guys that I know, but they where already in established groups not looking at taking anyone on. But what the heck I will just have to work a little harder dig a little deeper to be competive, my work background is similar to this. So I could see how having to compete against Teams with the Big Guns could keep folks away. | ||
| |||
| Shep |
| ||
Member Posts: 3899 | KHedquist - 6/3/2010 6:49 AM Well after following this thread, I was little apprehensive about stepping into AIM due to competing against the "Teams". I asked a couple of guys that I know, but they where already in established groups not looking at taking anyone on. But what the heck I will just have to work a little harder dig a little deeper to be competive, my work background is similar to this. Do your homework, study your maps, look for past tourney winning information(some people give up the spot, some give up the presentation, some don't say anything, some just flat out lie, hehehe), get some prefishing help from your local contacts, visit bait shops, ask questions at the ramps, and then do your best using that info in the tourney. Be quick to adapt, keep your ears and eyes open, and analyze it all. Also, remember to thank those who gave you help and information. When you start placing, and finishing higher without the advantage of the team, other anglers will take notice, and pretty soon, you'll start getting feelers. Teams will start to investigate you, and interview you for a position. You gotta be good, and you gotta be confident, and show you will work just as hard as they do. Do all that, and you will be invited in eventually. But again, TRUST is an absolute. If you don't trust them, or they don't trust you, then you will not make a good team. You must tell all, and work just as hard as the hardest working member of the team. Take your asignments, and work hard to validate, or eliminate water. Anything less, and you'll be on the outside again. Good teams stay together for a year or two, and then turn over. Great teams have a core that has been together for years, and have little turnover. They trust each other explicitly, and they all share equally in the work and expenses, and ultimately, in the rewards. If you are not sharing in all aspects, you are not part of a team. There are informal teams out there, that kind of share info. And they kind of trust each other. And they kind of keep some info to themselves. And that's as far as the sharing goes. Not the ideal team situation. | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Shep - 6/3/2010 10:15 AM KHedquist - 6/3/2010 6:49 AM Well after following this thread, I was little apprehensive about stepping into AIM due to competing against the "Teams". I asked a couple of guys that I know, but they where already in established groups not looking at taking anyone on. But what the heck I will just have to work a little harder dig a little deeper to be competive, my work background is similar to this. Do your homework, study your maps, look for past tourney winning information(some people give up the spot, some give up the presentation, some don't say anything, some just flat out lie, hehehe), get some prefishing help from your local contacts, visit bait shops, ask questions at the ramps, and then do your best using that info in the tourney. Be quick to adapt, keep your ears and eyes open, and analyze it all. Also, remember to thank those who gave you help and information. When you start placing, and finishing higher without the advantage of the team, other anglers will take notice, and pretty soon, you'll start getting feelers. Teams will start to investigate you, and interview you for a position. You gotta be good, and you gotta be confident, and show you will work just as hard as they do. Do all that, and you will be invited in eventually. But again, TRUST is an absolute. If you don't trust them, or they don't trust you, then you will not make a good team. You must tell all, and work just as hard as the hardest working member of the team. Take your asignments, and work hard to validate, or eliminate water. Anything less, and you'll be on the outside again. Good teams stay together for a year or two, and then turn over. Great teams have a core that has been together for years, and have little turnover. They trust each other explicitly, and they all share equally in the work and expenses, and ultimately, in the rewards. If you are not sharing in all aspects, you are not part of a team. There are informal teams out there, that kind of share info. And they kind of trust each other. And they kind of keep some info to themselves. And that's as far as the sharing goes. Not the ideal team situation. Hehehehehe Shep.... I sit and wonder...."SElf, I am doing this on my own and placing and doing well, and the teams "Probe" me.....hmmmm......why the hell would I want to join them?" | ||
| |||
| Guest |
| ||
| and I say "self" if I have to share all my information with other team members...it sounds too much like "work" and fishing is not supposed to be like work! OR IS IT? | |||
| |||
| GNWC Rookie |
| ||
Member Posts: 625 Location: LaCrosse, WI | Saying things like just do your homework, or get in and prove yourself are fine on a smaller level. Most of us don't have $3000 to $4000 per event to test ourselves in this economy. If things were better maybe. Like I said in an earlier post, competing against teams is just one more thing to factor when thinking about making a jump to the big leagues. If you're talking a $100 local tourney then by all means jump in and fish. My fear is that there are 3 kinds of top level tourney guys left today. Here's the breakdown I have in my head. 1. The team members (elite teams and not so elite teams) 50-60% 2. The rogue old pros/new guys who want to make it on their own 10-20% 3. Dead money who can afford to pay their way to pro status. 10-25% There will always be that 10-25% of the field that never or rarely ever cash a check in any event. The rogues and new guys are becoming more and more scarce, which leaves us with a high percentage of the anglers being team members. I didn't mind competing against some of these teams on the FLW League level because I felt fairly comfortable with the waters they fished. I would not however feel as comfortable traveling somewhere that I've never been, especially big water. While I feel that I could go someplace like Devils Lake and catch fish, I don't honestly feel that I could be competitive on year one. The teams are here to stay, I see no way around it, and I can deal with it. The biggest issue is that there's no mid level circuits out there any more that let you build up to the top level. That's where a lot of those connections are made. Now if you want to fish any pro-am event, you're pretty much limited to the big leagues. Anybody else remember how fun the FLW League events were for the $150 as a boater or even the $300 as a boater? | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | GNWC Rookie - 6/3/2010 2:22 PM I didn't mind competing against some of these teams on the FLW League level because I felt fairly comfortable with the waters they fished. I would not however feel as comfortable traveling somewhere that I've never been, especially big water. While I feel that I could go someplace like Devils Lake and catch fish, I don't honestly feel that I could be competitive on year one. The teams are here to stay, I see no way around it, and I can deal with it. The biggest issue is that there's no mid level circuits out there any more that let you build up to the top level. That's where a lot of those connections are made. Now if you want to fish any pro-am event, you're pretty much limited to the big leagues. Anybody else remember how fun the FLW League events were for the $150 as a boater or even the $300 as a boater? marshall, you were not competitive the first years you started tourney fishing either. with anything there is a learning curve. If you honestly think that you cannot compete with them, then you cannot. If you think you can....welllllll..... you can. | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | JohnnyV - 5/28/2010 12:54 PM Team or no team, you still have to find fish and figure out what thier liking for the hour. I personally don't by the whole people are locals at the lake so they have an advantage. Seems quite the opposite if you look at the history, as the pros put it, "I fished memories and it killed me". Look at Brett King at Green Bay last year, certainly not a local boy, but he and a couple of others figured out the bite, none of them were locals. I did fish with a well know local angler at Green Bay last year, we went in the first day with 5 fish instead of 7 at the AIM event. He has a pretty good size "team" too. Weather switched and it hurt hiim. I hafta say that the win by Brett at green bay was a good win and I will tell you why. He made the right decisions. No competitor in the event missed the fish that he used to win, Brett just made the right decision to fish them due to the conditions that were present at game time. That, there, is a decision made that would and did not have anything to do with a team. The guys who win have the 6th sense. The good sized team you speak of knew they were there, they just rolled the dice hoping on the better fish to pop somewhere else and they did not. | ||
| |||
| GNWC Rookie |
| ||
Member Posts: 625 Location: LaCrosse, WI | Denny, I never said I was awesome. My point is that I was willing to take the risk because the risk/reward was more balanced for me for $150 than it would be for $1500. I think I have as much say about this because I have traveled all over the country for almost every event I've fished. It's pretty easy for all the homewater heroes to sit back and talk about how you should just go out and do it. Funny that most of the same people that won't fish tourneys on the Mississippi because it's too tough (not an open water trolling bite) are the same ones that want to say how you can compete on new water elsewhere by just believing in yourself. Yes you can, but do not expect great results for a few years. Fact is, I won't spend the money top circuits want unless I either have the same support network or am comfortable where the event is being held. You'd be hard pressed to convince me to travel 600 miles to fish somewhere new for $1500 entry plus another $1500 expenses with never seeing the lake before. | ||
| |||
| thumper |
| ||
Member Posts: 744 | Stacker, I know you're not saying it is just as easy to place well in a tournament solo as it is with a team, are you? | ||
| |||
| Shep |
| ||
Member Posts: 3899 | stacker - 6/3/2010 10:19 AM Shep - 6/3/2010 10:15 AM KHedquist - 6/3/2010 6:49 AM Well after following this thread, I was little apprehensive about stepping into AIM due to competing against the "Teams". I asked a couple of guys that I know, but they where already in established groups not looking at taking anyone on. But what the heck I will just have to work a little harder dig a little deeper to be competive, my work background is similar to this. Do your homework, study your maps, look for past tourney winning information(some people give up the spot, some give up the presentation, some don't say anything, some just flat out lie, hehehe), get some prefishing help from your local contacts, visit bait shops, ask questions at the ramps, and then do your best using that info in the tourney. Be quick to adapt, keep your ears and eyes open, and analyze it all. Also, remember to thank those who gave you help and information. When you start placing, and finishing higher without the advantage of the team, other anglers will take notice, and pretty soon, you'll start getting feelers. Teams will start to investigate you, and interview you for a position. You gotta be good, and you gotta be confident, and show you will work just as hard as they do. Do all that, and you will be invited in eventually. But again, TRUST is an absolute. If you don't trust them, or they don't trust you, then you will not make a good team. You must tell all, and work just as hard as the hardest working member of the team. Take your asignments, and work hard to validate, or eliminate water. Anything less, and you'll be on the outside again. Good teams stay together for a year or two, and then turn over. Great teams have a core that has been together for years, and have little turnover. They trust each other explicitly, and they all share equally in the work and expenses, and ultimately, in the rewards. If you are not sharing in all aspects, you are not part of a team. There are informal teams out there, that kind of share info. And they kind of trust each other. And they kind of keep some info to themselves. And that's as far as the sharing goes. Not the ideal team situation. Hehehehehe Shep.... I sit and wonder...."SElf, I am doing this on my own and placing and doing well, and the teams "Probe" me.....hmmmm......why the hell would I want to join them?" Denny, I'm pretty sure I didn't say a word about actually making money. Sure, you might cash a check here or there, but unless you're the winner in the FLW, or in the top 10 in AIM, you're not close to paying your expenses. And I surely didn't imply the teams were going to come running to you for information, although some might. So..... Yep, dong well enough to get someone's attention is exactly what I meant. Marshall, you are over simplifying the point I am trying to get across. You won't fish Bago, or Green Bay, because you don't know the water. Yet, did you ever consider asking Stacker, or me, or any number of others you know for information and help? Kirt had exactly zero days on Wissota last year. He called me and asked for some help. I gave him what I knew, and I'm sure he talked and maybe prefished with others. I'm sure he "did his homework", studied maps, prefished many days and patterns, etc, and ended up winning the stupid thing! He has maybe 4 days on Green Bay, and yet he has entered the AIM tourney here. I know he's asked at least one person for some info and prefish help. My guess is he has asked others, too. The point is, IF you truly want to big in the big show, you going to have to "WORK" hard, place high enough to get noticed, and ultimately become part of a team. As for the Mississippi? The largest check ever won there was won trolling. I think the field was 225+, and I know not all were in teams, and probably half the field had relatively little time on that body of water. Edited by Shep 6/3/2010 4:39 PM | ||
| |||
| Shep |
| ||
Member Posts: 3899 | That should read, IF you truly want to be in the big show. | ||
| |||
| Johnny V |
| ||
| Stacker, Yes Brett did make the right decision, but if you do not think there was someone else involved you are dead wrong. I was in a boat with someone on day two that gave Brett key information and yes they are teammates | |||
| |||
| oxy-moron |
| ||
| For all the bragging that has gone on in the past where tournament fishermen are better at fishing than the average joe, if teams are here to stay then they obviously are not better than anyone else since help is needed from others to find and catch the fish. | |||
| |||
| tyee |
| ||
Member Posts: 1406 | Ok, I'm starting to understand some different points of view on the "team". If they are truely here to stay what can be done to encourage new people to join and be attracted to a team? Some of the points others have made about team members requirements such as loyalty honesty, integrity and down right nice guy but more importantly you need to be qualified to join a team! How many guys like this do you really know? How long would it take to earn those stripes? How many people are really going to be fishing similar waters to Jim Carrol today or how many are going to head his direction swinging for the fence because of the 2 fish he caught? All that information prefishing the thousands of dollars spent looking for and sharing information with your team only to be thrown out the window after day 1. Is that really the best method to compete in this sport, did any "TEAM" have an advantage on those waters yesterday or did the "TEAM" change the game plan? If we expect new commers to earn their way and climb the ladder wont we need to have a method that encourages and rewards these people and truely educates them on creating their team, they may have to be drafted and paid appropriately because although he may be the better fisherman he may not be the best person for the sport. Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 6/4/2010 1:38 PM | ||
| |||
| stacker |
| ||
Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Are you talking a nascar system type thing? Lets say we have the abc team and they have two levels they play in, busch and nascar. and we draft guys on there ability to produce, support and or win. we get the main sponsors and these guys get the chance to run free boats that are returned at the end of the year? Hmmmmm...... | ||
| |||
| Jump to page : < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... > Now viewing page 2 [25 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
Copyright © 2025 OutdoorsFIRST Media | About Us | Contact Us | Advertise
News | Video | Audio | Chat | Forums | Rankings | Big Fish | Sponsors | Classified Boat Ads | Tournaments | FAQ's
News | Video | Audio | Chat | Forums | Rankings | Big Fish | Sponsors | Classified Boat Ads | Tournaments | FAQ's