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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | You are a spineless fool...... And that' a fact Jackoff.
Basically same boats fool.
.....and having fished ALL of these tournaments I can say that FLW does not take better care of heir fish. You have no clue fool. |
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Location: Badgerland | Thats a fact jack - 12/10/2011 11:58 AM
does help with mws,swc,mwc bangin the fish around and moving them out of there natural movements it surely screw them up so its just not flw. infact flw participates certainly take better care of the fish then mws and swc lil boats do!
With only 21 days left in 2011, I'd say your odds on favorite for DUMBEST POST OF THE YEAR. |
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| Spineless? ok so lets get vindictive here. I have fished all of them except swc but been to there weight in, i didnt say all of them in those tourny rather some. sunshine you certaintly would know spinless since your one of them protester and bringing all your union thugs costing this state millions . Why dont you ask a DNR specialist if you dont think moving fish around prior to spawning does effect those fish? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | who has a event prior to spawning? I agree, them guys sure did not leave you much room to squirm..... Just want to ask, you do know that 95 outa 100 on the mws are 20fters and swc are averaging about the same? |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Yes, spineless because you come on here trying to rattle the cage without the balls of signing your name. No credibility.
You choose to avoid the facts that others present. Instead you call a retired teacher a thug and a protester. Yes sir, you are a spineless idiot. You prove it every time your write. The amusing part is that you are so clueless that you have no idea how stupid you sound.
Answer Stacker's question. Which one of the tournaments that you mention has a tournament prior tothe spawn? It already seems that you have backed away from your stupid boat size statement.
What's next! You gonna suggest outlawing graphs?
I agree Troy, dumbest post of the year. A least we all get a good laugh. |
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| I'm not trying to stir anything up from my prospective there are many things that influence the walleye population and health of the fisherie and this is one small part.
Stacker my bad, The use of the word "prior" isnt what i meant to say but i did . I meant during the tail end of spawn during the first weekand of may, There has been a handfull or more tournys the first weekand of may in the past out of gb and they travelled to oconto and north as far as they could go or out of marinette doing the same thing just the opposite traveling all the way to fox river and then going back to weight in and fished released. The"water temp can be much as 10degree difference". SOME fish that havnt spawned were caught in both times.
Bangin the fish around happens to any boat on the bay when its ruff out there but travel long distance with fish in any boat and near spawning time cant help. There has been many small boats in tourny in the past but your right but past 3-4 years seems like everyone owns big rigs. |
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| AIM tourneys treat the fish the best by releasing them minutes after photo/recording. All other tourney styles have significant increase in stress levels on the fish while riding and bouncing in the live well for up to multiple hours at a time. All tourneys should have the photo/record style so they stay in the system fresh and alive. Nothing worse than fish turning belly up in the lake hours or days after being displayed and becoming floating seagull food. What a waste and that's the fact, Jack! |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Here are some facts that you can consider while continuing this discussion. The DNR estimates that in 2010, 87,228 walleye were harvested from Lake Michigan/Green Bay. Here are the number of walleyed caught from tournaments mentioned: 212 walleye caught at Green Bay in July at MWS. 131 walleye caught at Menominee in August at MWS 33 walleye caught at MWS Championship in September at Menominee. 792 walleye caught at 2 day tournament in August at NTC Bay de Noc tournament. 76 walleye caught at Battle of the Bay. The Michigan DNR estimate that in 1996 there were 484,525 legal walleye in Little Bay de Noc. They go on to say that there is a 4.6% exploitation rate in LBDN. Other exploitation rates include: 1.6% in BBDN, 3% at the Cedar River and 5.8% in the Menominee River. My conclusion, even if all of the 1,244 walleye caught in the above tournaments were harvested, this is a very acceptable number that does no damage to the resource. Even with an exagerated kill rate of 25%, the released fish mortality is about 311 fish. Again, very acceptable in my opinion. And I won't get into the financial impacts that these tournaments provide to the local communities and to the natural resources through fishing licenses and taxes. |
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Location: Lincolnshire, IL | LurePresentation - 12/10/2011 7:02 PM
AIM tourneys treat the fish the best by releasing them minutes after photo/recording. All other tourney styles have significant increase in stress levels on the fish while riding and bouncing in the live well for up to multiple hours at a time. All tourneys should have the photo/record style so they stay in the system fresh and alive. Nothing worse than fish turning belly up in the lake hours or days after being displayed and becoming floating seagull food. What a waste and that's the fact, Jack!
I'm not completely sold on the AIM format being so great for the fish...Catch as many fish as possible and let them all go, no dead fish at the weigh in, sounds great and even looks better from a PR standpoint, but what about delayed mortality rates? I might argue that if the tournament anglers were only allowed 7 fish in the livewell, they may be doing less harm to the resource(even in a kill tournament), than catching and handling 20 - 30 if not more fish per day. High delayed mortality rates have been documented in trout when using barbed hooks with live bait.
After reading Dennis' post regarding the number of fish caught during tournaments on Green Bay and the estimated harvest, what is wrong with just having a limited number of fish in the livewell and holding kill tournaments and donating the fish?
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| I think having an AIM style format for ALL events is a great way to go. I have been to AIM events and find them to have great showings from the fans. And to answer the guide problem, just let your clients know that you will only harvest fish under the 22" size and one over 28". If they don't want to do it, then just say sorry. I know its money lost short term but most people I talk to are usually looking for one trophy anyways. The bay is NOT like Erie.
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| Off topic I know.
I don't run many trips in the bay, less than a dozen last year, but every one I do run I talk conservation with the clients when they call to book not once we get in the boat. I don't advertise and do it because I enjoy it; everything is usually word of mouth so it's usually not an issue. Most are more then happy just to catch the fish and take a couple smaller ones home but I did turn down two trips last year because one of the first questions asked was "how many coolers do we have to bring to get the fish home?"
That being said we do everything we can while fishing the MWS and other tournements to keep our fish alive as well. I run an older boat (2002) but have an Oxygenator installed, have a floating thermometer and ice as needed, plug overflows and overflow water into the bilge while running to prevent fish slopping and do everything we can to help the fish stay alive and well. We have lost one fish in the last three years and that's because it was hooked badly. We didn't have to weigh it but we still gave it to the weighmaster to be donated to the good cause supported by the tournement. We caught one fish in last years MWS championship and came back 31 miles in some pretty rough water and the fish was alive and kicking when we got back.
As Sunshine posted with his numbers, tournement anglers are not hurting the fishery.
Edited by Fish Hound 12/12/2011 1:09 PM
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Location: Berlin | Well, I have been hesitant to chime in on this subject. As many of you know I have been working diligently with the DNR on a game plan for continued fish management on the Bay of Green Bay. There have been countless studies done on this matter and we are finally making some progress. The studies have included tournament impacts, fish migrations, fishing pressure etc. In my studies it was discovered that the number of fish per square mile is down considerably from 5 years ago and the overall size average is also down. We have monitored the draws as well as the spawns and this should not be happening. There have been good spawning conditions the last 3 out of 5 years. Upon further study I stumbled upon the reason. It actually came as an anynomous tip called in on the hot line. It is a poucher. This SOB has taken hundreds of thousands of female walleyes in the 25-30" range over the last 5 years. He is selling them on the black market and even using the carcasses to traffic drugs. We know what he looks like and are getting closer every day to nailing him. If any of you have any info reguarding this guy please call the DNR hot line immediately. He is very dangerous so do NOT approach!!!!! Here is a pic
Edited by Rich S 12/12/2011 2:52 PM
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| i love his fish to smoke , its perfect way to sell to, cause i see coolers full of them every time i go fishing |
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| I became an owner in AIM and truly believe in the CRR formula. I don't understand why it hasn't caught on in other circuits. It would allow everyone to fish the full time period, no decisions and no cheating in regards to culling. I realize that they want the fish on the stage but truthfully how many spectators are really there to watch weigh in. Seems like most of them are there supporting the anglers... John Schneider |
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| Wisconsin Wade - 12/11/2011 7:53 PM
LurePresentation - 12/10/2011 7:02 PM
AIM tourneys treat the fish the best by releasing them minutes after photo/recording. All other tourney styles have significant increase in stress levels on the fish while riding and bouncing in the live well for up to multiple hours at a time. All tourneys should have the photo/record style so they stay in the system fresh and alive. Nothing worse than fish turning belly up in the lake hours or days after being displayed and becoming floating seagull food. What a waste and that's the fact, Jack!
I'm not completely sold on the AIM format being so great for the fish...Catch as many fish as possible and let them all go, no dead fish at the weigh in, sounds great and even looks better from a PR standpoint, but what about delayed mortality rates? I might argue that if the tournament anglers were only allowed 7 fish in the livewell, they may be doing less harm to the resource (even in a kill tournament ), than catching and handling 20 - 30 if not more fish per day. High delayed mortality rates have been documented in trout when using barbed hooks with live bait.
After reading Dennis' post regarding the number of fish caught during tournaments on Green Bay and the estimated harvest, what is wrong with just having a limited number of fish in the livewell and holding kill tournaments and donating the fish?
You think the transport tourney guys only catch the 6 or 7 fish they put in the livewell?
Or maybe they catch the same 20-30 fish, and just pick the biggest 6 or 7 to put in the livewell?
So other than the 6 or 7 fish that have to take the rough ride in those little Rangers, is there any more delayed mortality in the AIM format?
Sheesh! |
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Location: Lincolnshire, IL | You think the transport tourney guys only catch the 6 or 7 fish they put in the livewell?
-NO
Or maybe they catch the same 20-30 fish, and just pick the biggest 6 or 7 to put in the livewell?
-Possibly, but I would guess the livewell limit fish hits the box well before that many fish are handled….for most tournament situations. I am applying this argument to a body of water that prohibits culling. i.e. Green Bay.
So other than the 6 or 7 fish that have to take the rough ride in those little Rangers, is there any more delayed mortality in the AIM format?
-Not sure what it has to do with the type of boat the fish take a ride in BUT, show me the walleye study that supports the AIM rhetoric that it is the format best suited to protecting the resource and I will become a believer in the rhetoric. Even if that happens, it doesn’t mean that I think it makes one bit of difference regarding the small insignificant impact tournament anglers directly have on the resource.
I have no problems with the AIM format, nor do I have any issues with transport tournaments and/or kill tournaments in regards to walleyes. But, saying it is the best for the resource….well I think it is simply a PR move and nothing more…. So, if the walleye catch rate is 5 fish per hour on live bait and angler A catches his five and puts them in the livewell and calls it a day we know for a fact that 5 fish are no longer a living part of the system. If angler B fishes for 10 hours and catches 50 walleyes and releases them all....what do we know? We know that 50 fish went back in the lake but that is all I can tell you for sure...
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Hey guys, just want to clarify things. I did not mean the FLW killed fish or any other tournament for that matter. The reason green bay is now getting hammered is 2 fold.
1- The tournaments showed the general public where the fish were and exactly how to catch them. Thats the damage they have done to the fishery. Back in the days when john and pat and dean and jerry were out there, they did not go on TV shows to put you "On Location". Every guy back in the 90's that learned it did it the old fashion way, they went looking. I know this is a double edged sword we are swinging, but when you have maps on a video and ted takasaki hoisting 40#'s on stage and you live 20 mins from the launch, you just know whats going to happen.
2- The state changed the limit from 3 fish to 5 over 15. I believe that tourism pushed this change in rules. The general public has a hard time controlling themselfs. A percentage of them feel they need to take the big ones home to show off to their neighbors. They also feel that if they dont have a limit it was a wasted day. Thats the way it is. They will also go back many times to fill the freezer till there is no more to take. Its not all of them, just a good percentage. Lower it back to 3 and it "Wont be worth the time" to go. |
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| All I'm getting at is there are probably just as many fish caught and handled in the non-AIM events as the AIM events. So the point of more fish being handled and more delayed mortality in the AIM events is just simply a unfounded statement.
The boat comment was just a dig at you! hehehe |
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Location: Lincolnshire, IL | Shep - 12/13/2011 10:22 AM
All I'm getting at is there are probably just as many fish caught and handled in the non-AIM events as the AIM events. So the point of more fish being handled and more delayed mortality in the AIM events is just simply a unfounded statement.
The boat comment was just a dig at you! hehehe
I think that AIM Fishing would disagree with you that a relatively equal number of fish are caught in non-Aim events...go to their website and read the second "huge" advantage of the 3 "huge" advantages to participate in the series.
I would copy and paste it here but not sure of the copyright, etc...
So I interpret that as fish all day, catch as many as possible..I have no problem with that..but more fish are being handled....right?
Look at some of the FLW tournaments this year and the number of anglers ready to weigh in early...if it were a CRR format they would still have been fishing...in turn handling more fish...
Again, no matter the tournament format, CRR, C&R, Kill...the DIRECT impact on the walleye resource is insignificant...but I feel the "NO" dead fish rhetoric of the CRR format can negatively effect(or is it affect?) the C&R tournaments.
Remember, I am a Pro-Walleye Tourney Fan, and I'll admit that I like to see the fish brought on the stage..to me it is part of the show. Look at the current Walleyefirst cover story. It is a photo of Gary Parsons holding 2 walleyes, not a photo of Gary Parsons standing in front of a picture of Gary Parsons holding a walleye...Why is that? |
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| It's the same reason your holding 2 walleyes in your avatar picture.
Larry |
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Location: Lincolnshire, IL | LurePresentation - 12/13/2011 11:06 AM
It's the same reason your holding 2 walleyes in your avatar picture.
Larry
Exactly! To show them off! It's part of the experience! Other than he caught his during a tournament and those in the avatar were caught fun fishing. The two there were a double header and immediately CPR'ed.
They swam away fine, but I don't know what happened after that LOL!
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | As for bringing fish to the scales, I think it is to each his own. I watch 100 teams cross a stage, dragging a basket with something in it, get weighed and hustled off. 2-5 may actually reach in and show off the fish. you know this to be a fact. I went to aim weigh ins and found it refreshing to see quality shots of the days catch. But that is my druthers.
Also, I think you guys are splitting hairs when you are now worring about how many fish get caught in a day and what their mortality may be. I know you stout FLW Supporters need a platform to stand on but its shakey and I would get down before it falls. Simply put, livewelled fish will have WAY WAY WAY higher mortality then a caught, photo, and released fish. Common sense says that. |
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| If our catch and release program didn't work where would our Muskie populations be today. As a kid growing up and fishing with my Dad we didn't have the huge musky population to enjoy, as everything back then was catch and kill. Times have changed in that sport and it shows, same way with bass angling today, but we haven't quite reached that point in walleye fishing yet. I have said it before that the Bay has sustained a heavy pressure on the big fish base and it will take a long time to come back. We as fisherman need to do everything possible to allow this to happen. John Schneider |
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Location: Lincolnshire, IL | How come so much gets lost in the discussion...
John - I agree, C&R works...
Stacker - While I have a hard time quantifying WAY, WAY, WAY...I never said that one immediately C&R'ed fish had as much chance of dying as one that was put in the livewell to be released after the tournament weighing and releasing procedure. I agree that if we are comparing 1 to 1, you are correct there is a much better chance that the immediately released fish will survive.
I argue that there may be a diminishing point of return dependent on the total number of fish that are handled. If I handle more fish..greater chance I will eventually hook one in the gullet, gill, eye, etc....which will give that fish, even though immediatley released a greater chance at delayed mortality.
Will anyone agree that the possibility of delayed mortality exists on an immediately released walleye? Other than me?
Getting back to the Musky thing...not that long ago it was also deemed "common sense" that if the musky swam away, the single hook sucker rig will dissolve and all will be OK.
Now before anyone takes that out of context...I know that the released walleyes in the CRR format do not have a big hook in their stomach OK?
And I will reiterate that IMO Tournament Walleye Anglers have an insignificant direct impact on walleye populations no matter the format. |
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| Hey guys,
Interesting debate. Green Bay is a Walleye factory. One thing that you are all forgetting about is the forage base. The Great Lakes have been changing dramatically. Ask any of the guides up in Sturgeon Bay. Those Whitefish never used to be stacked up there like that. Ask yourself why? |
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