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| From my understanding of the Manitowac situation, anyone asks for and receives gas money, breakfest or any other compenstion for the use of their boat would be in violation of this law and subject to the fine. I don't like to ask for gas money myself but with launch fees and the cost of gas and equipment if someone offers is does help. |
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| Hafe, Please don't take offense to my post. I did'nt aim it at you! There are a number of people on bago that "guide" and don't have the proper insurance and requirements. I'm sure you know of some as you have been out there for years yourself right? What makes it safer for a person to take a 4 hour charter on the great lakes vs. Winnebago(The Coast Guard is doing more than chasing guides around). Winnebago does its fair share of taking lives every year. Why should a winnebago guide or any other guide for that mater not be required to follow similar rules and be as knowledgeable? Maybe the people that aren't making it as a guide and possibly taking money out of your pocket such as those who take people out and require some sort of compensation, (hence riff raff) will be removed from the system therefore making your services and experience more valuable. I would think you would favor this.
Rick, No one complained! this is a law being enforced around our national security. and I highly doubt one individual was behind it! If your looking for a scapegoat use your voting power in November. I of course will be behind Mr. Bush 100% on this issue! Is it bogus? Maybe, Is it worth calling your legislature and complaining, definately! If your looking for an individual to fault might you find it easier to waste less energy and place that blame on OSAMA?
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 7/5/2004 6:02 PM
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Pffft! National security and Osama is an easy out!
A friend told me this was going to happen this last winter. He had a discussion with a Charter Captain at a show in Madison, who told him (my friend) that he had complained. So your a bit off on this matter.
And it's not a scapegoat I'm after, just the truth (you can't handle the truth! Hehehe).
Tyee, I agree with the rules, just feel bad for those who are forced out of business.
Edited by Rick Larson 7/5/2004 7:52 PM
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| I was told by both the Sturgeon Bay and Toledo Ohio office that a couple of people complaned. So that along with the Homeland sucurity act has brought them here. Also you guys are all right and a law is a law and should be followed. I'm not saying I agree with this, I have been guiding on this system for 18 years with all the correct insurance and licencing. So if you guys think some of us are laying in the weeds and taking money from some people with out delivering a just service I will have to say you are wrong. I have enough clients that I don't advertize anymore, most of which live right here in the valley area!! Could there be some bad guides, sure, but don't group us all together. If anyone is interested in obtaining the correct Coast Guard licencing, I have info. Give me a call at 426-2973 or 379-4965 or e-mail me at [email protected]
Dan Rubin |
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| I was told by both the Sturgeon Bay and Toledo Ohio office that a couple of people complaned. So that along with the Homeland sucurity act has brought them here. Also you guys are all right and a law is a law and should be followed. I'm not saying I agree with this, I have been guiding on this system for 18 years with all the correct insurance and licencing. So if you guys think some of us are laying in the weeds and taking money from some people with out delivering a just service I will have to say you are wrong. I have enough clients that I don't advertize anymore, most of which live right here in the valley area!! Could there be some bad guides, sure, but don't group us all together. If anyone is interested in obtaining the correct Coast Guard licencing, I have info. Give me a call at 426-2973 or 379-4965 or e-mail me at [email protected]
Dan Rubin |
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| I was told by both the Sturgeon Bay and Toledo Ohio office that a couple of people complaned. So that along with the Homeland sucurity act has brought them here. Also you guys are all right and a law is a law and should be followed. I'm not saying I agree with this, I have been guiding on this system for 18 years with all the correct insurance and licencing. So if you guys think some of us are laying in the weeds and taking money from some people with out delivering a just service I will have to say you are wrong. I have enough clients that I don't advertize anymore, most of which live right here in the valley area!! Could there be some bad guides, sure, but don't group us all together. If anyone is interested in obtaining the correct Coast Guard licencing, I have info. Give me a call at 426-2973 or 379-4965 or e-mail me at [email protected]
Dan Rubin |
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| Tyee, your statement >> Rules are rules and even if out dated they should be followed. Personally I would rather pay a "professional guide" (one who is held to higher standards) than the local guy who pays the state a 40 dollar fee for a license. There are many good guys out there that know how to fish the system and don't have the necessary requirements. I would feel more comfortable as a client if the guy I was fishing with had all the qualifications. This may weed out alot of riff raff! << is wrong. Because this has been considered an inland water way by the people enforcing the rules for a long time, this is all about a mindset of "I got my license and those are the rules no matter what. Like the guy who got out of jail and found an old law on the books stating he got a horse and a six shooter and sued the county or fat people sueing McDonald's. This isn't about what's RIGHT and FAIR to a bunch of local businesses and tourism in general. This is about greed or someone getting their jollies out of creating such a stink. If you, tyee, thinks it's fair on the entire Winnebago system and don't feel that anglers such as myself, Larry Smith, Bill Stoeger, Paul Olsen, Randy Williams and others who were guiding the Wolf River have enough (in your words) "requirements" or have all the "qualifications" to earn YOUR money, then you are sadly mistaken. There are plenty of guys on Winnebago that have earned their stripes and I don't think it's fair for you to be so trivial in your statements. |
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| Doc, How am I being so trivial in my statements? And I NEVER grouped all guides into one category. Where did I ever say that You, Larry, Bill Paul or Randy wern't qualified guides?
Wow.... don't take it so personal and keep doing what your doing to meet the requirements! Or band together and fight it! My comment was about the many people I know that are "guiding" on the system without the skills and requirements! As you may know the internet has opened up a flurry of activity to people looking to learn how to catch fish and there are many people out there taking these people out for mearly gas money! Therefore they are "guiding". Call it friends making friends but quite honestly those people are taping into your client base and I think you would applaud the fact that those guys are going to be watched!
I have the highest respect for the guys out there that do this for a living or even to supplement their income but lets be real here! There are now two CG boats on the system. Do you think they shouldn't be there? Do you think that their enforcing the rules is a bad thing? Have you or do you know of anyone that has been busted for this?
Get the necessary requirement and don't worry about it! It'll make you a better person and possibly allow you to earn more!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Tyee, I didn't take it personal and was making point of not putting everyone in to one basket. As far as friends taking friends and your concerns over taping in to my client base, here are a few things that should clear the air for you. I have not been taking any guide work for two years due to health reasons, too much physical work and a very arthritic hip and wrist. Second, A room full of guys taking people fishing off of Lake-Link wouldn't have an effect on my business. When I was guiding even 2 guys in Fremont charging 1/3 of my rates didn't affect ONE day of my schedule. All it did was open a new window of opportunity to people who couldn't afford to fish with me. It's not about the money for many, it's about fishing with guides like myself with some "credentials". Third, do those credentials include the need for a Captains License (limited scope or not) on the Wolf River and Winnebago, F-NO ESPECIALLY if the rule is for water ways that are NAVIGABLE to the Ocean. You are being trivial in your statements as to the importance of lost income to many and the 100's of dollars needed to get the required license, like it's no big deal. How about you "get real" for a moment and quit pretending like you know what it's like to be in some of these guys position. |
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| Doc, No problem here with you credentials from me and your successful business (unfortunately there are many other guides that aren't as successful......... just maybe, the guy that started to complain.....hummmm..... now put yourself in his shoes Doc.). If your point was to not put everyone into one basket thats fine by me, but please don't direct your post to me for doing that because I never did.
If I made it sound trivial in your eyes and you thought I made light of YOUR situation than I appologize but the 100's of dollars it will cost and the lost income to others IS no big deal to me! I feel sorry for the guys that aren't as succesfull for others this could be a good thing.
It is what it is and doing whatever you can is fine by me. The system has been this way since before the cows came home and no one spoke up before, we had plenty of chances to do something about it over the years but we chose to ignore it.
Please don't think I am defending the need for a Captains license on the system because I am not. All I have said really is,,,,is it such a bad thing? This of course for sake of discussion not argument. And by the way, I know EXACTLY what this means to many guides and how it is affecting them. (most good ones not at all right now because they continue to guide with their trusted client base).
As for the CG being present on the system I think it's GREAT! Is it all about busting guides? Heck NO. So do what you have to do and with your succesfull business you should be able to recoup the $700 in a mater of weeks don't you think?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Neenah, WI | I'm not a guide and don't have any interest in becoming one, therefore, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I do, however, have a point I want to raise. If the USCG wants to enforce this guide thing on the system, shouldn't they also be placing buoys? If they are so concerned about the system they should bring the whole package. We've gotten along without them for years and now they come along with selective enforcement of laws. I remember the USCG station in Menasha quite well. A neighbor of mine even served part of his hitch there in the early 60's. Pretty good duty for him, he was able to live at home!! It just seems to me that the USCG has bigger fish to fry and they shouldn't be here being a pain in the butt to some guys trying to make an honest buck by taking folks out fishing. I can see the need for a guide license from the DNR and proper insurance etc. and that should be enough. We've gotten along without them for about 30 years and I honestly don't think we need them now. |
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| Doc:
I understand you fish the river a fair amount up there but grouping yourself with those guys is pushing a little far. From my understanding the only boat you have had for years is a jon boat. Some of the people that you are mentioning guide on a daily basis. I would understand why it wouldn't be to your advantage to get a cap. license. You don't guide. |
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| Pushing a little far?? I laugh in your general direction!! I get published more and have done more to help educate people on fishing the Wolf River then all of them combined. As far as Jon boats, my last two were 20 foot all welded center consoles, plenty of boat for guiding the river had I chosen to, I am now running Tritons all welded Deep-V's - I must be doing something right to be on Triton Boats, Mercury and Lindy's Pro Staff. Pushing a little far? I don't think so. |
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Location: Neenah, WI | OK Mr., Mrs., or Ms. ??? I want to be politically correct but I can't tell from your post. I doubt seriously if there are more than a couple of Captains licenses on the chain unless they also guide on the Great Lakes. I've talked to only a couple of guides on the system and to be truthful I don't know that many. The fact remains that the USCG is being a pain in the butt to guys who are just trying to make a buck. Your post taking a shot at Doc from the bushes without identifying yourself is pretty cowardly, IMHO. Give it a rest unless you have the cajones to sign your name. |
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Well done Dale.
The system went without the CG for a long time, and for them to suddenly come waltzing in to enforce laws - that shouldn't apply - is beyond my (limited) ability to comprehend. There is more to this story and suspect it starts with the Charter Captain gang here on the Lake Michigan coast.
Doc, you type about some health issues. Hope it isn't serious and you can overcome these soon. |
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Location: sheboygan,wisconsin | first off ric,I am a lake michigan charter boat captain and I or any other charter boat captains that I know have ever complained to anyone about this! now if I were a full time guide on bago I would be jumping for joy on this news and calling the coast guard every week to make sure they were enforcing it. I will let you figure why ric since you have such a good handle on the subject. p.s. ric as of this time I don't belong to any gangs! |
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Hehehe. How about thugs then?:-) |
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Posts: 49
Location: sheboygan,wisconsin | not a probelm ric,and good luck this weekend |
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Posts: 20
| There is a greater issue at stake here than requiring a guide license. The "official" statement that I saw talking about this had Winnebago, the upriver lakes and rivers upstream a ways on a list of "federal" waters. If that's the case, than I suggest every boater on the system purchase and carry the flares, signaling devices, horns, etc. that we are required to have when we got over to Michigan and keep them up to date or pay the fine, 'cause those are "federal" waters. Not that I'm against safety equipment... hell it's not a bad idea, but those kits ain't nickle and dime stuff.
And now the bigger picture. What about putting out the bouys in spring and taking them out in fall? Winnebago County parks dept. budgets $75,000+ annually for installation, maintanence, replacement and removal per year, according to the parks director. I bet the county would love to see that bill and responsibility go to someone else in these budget poor times. And how about search and rescue? How many folks were out looking for the boys lost in the windstorm last fall for weeks? Was the coast guard involved in that search? (Not trying to mouth off... I really don't know if they were or not.) Would having had the coast guard up there immediately once it was know they were late have saved those two boys? We'll never know for sure but... If we are now, or again, federal water should we not have access to a closer CG unit again? And what about the lower Fox locks issue? Why did the state take over the responsibility of the locks if that is also "federal" water? The cost alone of restoring and operating those locks will be enormous (don't even get me started on the exotics and other issues!!!) Why should the state take on those costs when we're seeing other valuable programs eliminated or greatly reduced?
My point is that we either are federal waters and we get all the benefits (and headaches) that go with that status, or we are not and don't. I don't believe that CG (or any other government agency) should be able to cherry pick the rules that it wants to enforce and take a pass on those that are either more difficult or costly to. The CG may want an "in" to get back onto the system here, or was sucked into it by some who complained. (My gut tells me it was the latter, knowing how government works.) The "homeland security" angle is just smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned.
Either way you feel, pro or con, your federal reps are the people to contact and express your opinion as to the fairness and necessity of this. I do not guide so it makes no difference to me, and I already have the safety equipment for trips over to the big pond. However, I would love to see Winnebago Parks Dept. have $75,000 more to put into boating facilities improvements around the system, and the state and local taxpayers relieved of the fox locks cost debacle. Oh, that's right... there won't be any tax dollars going into that. And if you believe that...! |
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Location: Southwest shore Bago | AHMEN, KKK, Glad to see you visit us again! |
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| Excellent insight Kendal, Glad to see you pointed out some of those "other" issues that go along with this. Has anyone dug into who the federal reps are and how bout starting a list? Sure would be more powerfull to get this an organized effort rather than a few guides trying to do all the work, I think we can get some of the Powerboaters to do the same!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Winneconne, WI | I have contacted my reps----Feingold, Kohl and Petri and brought up the "bouy thing" and they said they were contacting the CG....Then I received a letter back saying that yes the CG is enforcing the Captains License thing. I wrote back and said that it essentially has to do with the status of being a ferderal waterway.....At this time they (Petri) are/is looking into it |
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| Thanks Kendall, shows some of those who had commented before and since just how deep the equasion really is. The effect on small businesses is by far beyond what it should be based on the CG's ability to be a benefit in the area, (IMHO). Personally I would LOVE to see more enforcement of the rules on our waterways but I do not see any benefit in being considered a federal waterway. ESPECIALLY THE WOLF RIVER. I wonder if the government will pay for a proper public service campaign to educate the people who use the river about the requirements for boating on a federal waterway. Been enforced ONE way for a LONG time, but "there's a new sheriff in town" |
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Location: Neenah, WI | Thanks Kendall, you said it a lot better than I did. Good to see you on the board again. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Why can't we have an adult conversation without someone who refuses to sign their name bashing people for their beliefs? This is childish! Although I have not commented recently on this thread I am following it closely and appreciate the different views even if I do not agree with them. It's always nice to hear differing opinions. Let's keep it civil. |
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