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Member
Posts: 1656
| Anti-tourney fishermen....................
I have several thoughts, but by far the most needed improvement is on the water "Good Sportsmenship". This is the only line of defense for tourney fishermen and to raise the sportsmanship to a "professional" level. This also applies off the water.
With that being said......perhaps my previous posts weren't at that "professional" level, at any rate probably not a very good sportsmanship like deed.
I'll leave it at that.
Forgive me FISHGOD, for I have sinned.  (hey, I didn't lose my sense of humor)
Edited by Jayman 7/27/2004 2:08 PM
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I also know that fishgod.:-)
We all have sinned. It's kinda like an initiation to half-read someone's post and fire off a knee-jerk response, only to regret doing so.
For what it's worth, I don't mind. There really hasn't been any harm. Just powerful ideas trying to find middleground. |
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Member
Posts: 284
| What about the "tournment fisherman" that is sitting on a favorite rock pile catching fish having non tournament boats come in and in essence push him out of his spot. What about drifting down the wolf river and catching a walleye in front of a passing non tournament type boat only to have him anchored right there on your next drift. Or when you are enjoying a peaceful drift and an uneducated fishing boat slows to half wake causing a 3 foot wave for everyone while he watches if your catching fish or not (More than likely so he can anchor on that exact spot).
This happens daily but not much is said usually because tournament folks are held to a higher standard than the average fishing joe.
I think it is time for the non tournament fisherpeople to start respecting tournament anglers as well. We contribute a lot to the well being of the system and as Jayman previously alluded to, winnebago is in great shape right now and will continue to be in the years to come due to succesful spawns and excellent information which sometimes comes directly from tournaments. I know we will not get that respect, but it is still deserved.
I don't agree with tournament anglers having special rules that others dont such as culling fish. However I do feel that if someone wants to spend their hard earned on a tournament and spend a day on the water for competition what is wrong with that. If they are on the same rule structure as everyone else what is it hurting. In addition they are not keeping 15 14" fish every time theygo out like many of the folks anchored out on the reefs in their 14'ers are right now.
Pleasure boaters cause just as many problems as fishing boats on any given weekend. Try fishing the mouth of the river in oshkosh on a saturday afternoon. Nothing is said about that. We all live with it, and that is fine. However, tournament boats should be able to move up and down the system within safety constraints just as the pleasure boats do without getting a black eye from other non tournament fisherman.
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Member
Posts: 1406
| hahaha you guys are killing me! WOW there was a point not too long ago that I might have agreed with some of your points (Doc and Rick) but as I educate myself more and more everyday I am starting to wonder why I ever thought the things I did. I too had sour thoughts of tournaments at times in my early years of fishing Poygan as you did Doc, and seeing high speed rigs fly THROUGH the canes. But as time goes on and rules change and the competative fishing sport grows in Wisconsin I see things much differently now, Yes there are the days that little boats get rocked in the river (I did many a times myself) but not only by tournament boaters but pleasure boaters as well. This anti-tournament sentiment you both tend to portray in your opinions over the past couple of years has always sparked my curiosity, but I still haven't figured out where it is coming from in your minds that is. It seems to me that your focus has always been in regard to walleyes and never too much thought or discussion on other species. I can only venture an opinion based on what I have read in your posts and it just seems to me that there might be conflict going on in your heads about this particular species, be it jealousy, envy, my fish, my river, or something else I can't seem to put my finger on it though. Neither of you have ever confronted the Bass tournaments and I wonder if it is because you don't participate or care to because it is often thought as a substandard species in this area? Either way I think you guys need to take a real hard look at what competative fishing (not only walleye tournaments) means to this state, and try and relate it to what it has ment to states like Kentucky, Tennesee, Texas and others. I think this insight might open your eyes a bit! By the way we should all get in a boat sometime, I think we could have some interesting discussions if we don't kill each other first!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Now Tyee, you really don't mean that!
There is no anti-tournament sentiment in my mind. If the majority of Wisconsin citizens have no problems with tournaments, then have 100 a day for all I care. My boat and my attitude can feed off of what these not-caring-about-anything-but-the-prize tournament-anglers can throw at me. But something tells me this will never happen, as beginner anglers, and those looking for some respite (that's quiet time for you speed readers) will not tolerate these screaming meanies.
As mentioned in Dave's post directly above, there are many non-tournament anglers who have no ill-thought towards disturbing a tournament angler. And why is that? Jealousy? Probably, but that doesn't change the fact that it exsists. As much as you want to place your finger in the fire of this controversy, YOU won't change this sentiment.
So now, assuming I hit on a fact, what are we to do about these feelings? Blame the pleasure boaters? Tyee, that's just so silly! Blaming the guys that are jealous over the big boats and fancy equipment is even more so!
Just to work this out a bit and follow the thoughts of those who want to fight fire with fire; Lets blame all the people who do not like tournaments and ban them from the water. Now we can have more tournaments without any user conflicts. Bet that sounds good to some tournament anglers. Does that sound good to you too Tyee?
There is something sinister about not allowing dissenters a voice by trying to humiliate and intimidate them into submission.
Edited by Rick Larson 7/27/2004 8:29 PM
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "If the majority of Wisconsin citizens have no problems with tournaments, then have 100 a day for all I care."
Its sentiment like this that really troubles me. We do not live in a democracy. I don't care if 99 out of 100 people oppose a thing, as long as I'm not infringing on your rights, what right do you or the others in the majority have to tell me how to live?
Stop thinking about these things in terms of "I have more people on my side, so I must be right" and more in terms of individual rights and freedoms.
Sorry, I'll step off the political soapbox and have another beer. Unless of course, the majority of you thinking drinking BEER is wrong, just like that bunch on do-gooders in the 20's.... |
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You want me to stop thinking?:-)
Don't be troubled young man, the majority will not get in the way of you having a fine life! |
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| Tyee, I am not "anti" tournaments, man don't make it out to be that simple. You're deeper then that?
My views have been posted before and they are.
I think tournaments are very much needed for product development and as a place to grow the popularity of the sport.
I felt too many un-proven people were fishing the PWT and calling themselves "Pro's", the PWT changed that.
I think there are too many "Jr" circuits. GNWC, AWA, WWA, etc etc
I think there are too many BAR tournaments on the Wolf river in spring.
I think the RCL is hog wash. Limiting entry by boat type is why.
I think the WWR is mathimatically flawed. (just mentioned this because it's tournament related)
I think pre-fishing and the sharing of information for walleye tournaments should be done like the B.A.S.S. events are run.
I don't like fishing competatively, I've tried it and for the most part don't like getting up that early in the morning that many days in a row and all the balony of mis-information, teams of boats and cheating that goes on. When I went all around the state and Midwest playing softball I was as competative as ANYONE, sharpened spikes when metal was still legal, I can't fish like that. Fishing for me has always been the escape of the pressures of the day, or week. My goals in fishing have always been more towards writing, photography and educating anglers, especially teaching kids.
I am also glad the DNR has gotten the right to regulate tournaments and hope they do as good a job of it here as they have in improving the fishery.
I think that there are too many wanna-be fishing pro's that feel a bunch of tournament entries and patches on their shirt and truck means that they should get a BIG deal on their boat before they even prove anything. Most of these guys don't even know how to properly photograph a fish, write anything for publication or have any clue what the sponsers want but feel one good finish in a Jr circuit and they should be feared as the next coming of the fishing gods.
In My Humble Opinion |
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Nevermind.
Edited by Brad B 7/29/2004 1:10 AM
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Boy oh boy Doc, that opinion does not read very humble too me! |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Rick,
Your right much of what I posted above took some thought and some individual interpretation based on what I've "read" Articulation is always something missing in print and very hard for many to express in text. Like what you printed in this paragraph for example.
"Just to work this out a bit and follow the thoughts of those who want to fight fire with fire; Lets blame all the people who do not like tournaments and ban them from the water. Now we can have more tournaments without any user conflicts. Bet that sounds good to some tournament anglers. Does that sound good to you too Tyee?"
See now taken as a paragraph that sounds pretty biased and slanted and I'm trying to figure out why on gods green earth you considered even asking ME if that sounds good? I don't think I ever indicated that in anyway should the public domain be segregated for select user groups AND I don't know of any tournament anglers that feel that way, do you? but I've gotten to know you and your written "articulation" and can tell when your havin fun. Obviously I know you're being pessamistic at times and it makes for very entertaining reading. Personally I try to take the middle road.
I'll only comment that single paragraphs are often open ended, (asking for a response) and don't often leave much room to "articulate" your true feelings especially when discussing controversial topics.
Doc, thanks for taking the time to point out your opinions I appreciate them, websters definition of Anti is "one that is opposed" Doc there were never more than three "registered" walleye tournaments on the river this spring on any given weekend why do you think that is too many? The fact that you don't like competative fishing is very evident in a lot of your posts. As for the sharpend spikes thing, Should I be surprised? I'm sorry but I think there is a lot more required than being able to take a picture and write an article.
Personality and being, Respected amoung your peirs is by far much more important. And if we ever get on the water together remind me to leave my kids at home They have learned enough already, hehehe
Brad, What do you mean Nevermind? Have you had time to think about it?
As a famous shrink once told me, Hear(read) it, Feel it, Forgive it, Confront it. Believe you me that don't happen overnight!
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 7/29/2004 10:27 PM
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Well Tyee, that is alot more of a thoughtful response than what I am used to. Was thinking the only people habitating message boards were witless knee jerks reacting emotionly to any post that might infringe on their beliefs (if one can figure out what I just meant, then your not one of these:-))
However, will take up an issue with you. You did infer I was anti-tournament, I have always and only 'sympathized' with those who are.
I truly hope you never figure out what is in my mind.
I have always typed tournaments as in all tournaments, but do have a particular peeve against Bass Tournaments and the culling issue.
There is a difference between jealousy and envy. Envy leads to destroying what is at issue and do not believe anyone (does anyone want to destroy the gamefish?) discussing tournaments have this emotion.
Your wanting me to "take a hard look at tournament fishing" is a statement way over my head. What the ell you think I have been doing the last three years? No, I really meant what I said and think you would choose to side with a high-profile tournament angler before helping and understanding the needs of those fishing off the bank and in small boats. And that doesn't mean it's a negative, just that you have choosen sides, where I have not.
And Doc, how does one become a 'pro-fisherman'?
I gotogo fishing at Saginaw, cu@ll in 12 days or so...
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Rick, You are assuming there is a conflict between a high profile tournament angler and the Shore or small boat fisherman. I have never seen one so I don't know what you mean. A high profile tournament angler knows better than to create a conflict. And by the way, you do know that I am one of those small boat shore fishermen don't you? I don't take sides...... Hey...Seriously.......Good Luck to you this weekend catch some big ones!
Tyee |
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Member
Posts: 617
Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Tyee -
I had a very long, somewhat less than kind post I decided to delete. A beer helped me see that it doesn't really matter. Another and I saw my misplaced anger. 1/2 way through the third, I deleted the post and went to bed.
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| Tyee
There is a huge conflict in the minds of many non-tournament anglers. Some believe tournaments only kill and waste fish (facts do support this), some can not afford to buy one of these boats and are jealous of those who can, and some of these anglers just don't like being buzzed by big boats - and yes, pleasure boaters are to be included in this mix - and will simply point to tournament anglers as the cause of all the problems they are having.
This is not to say this is a problem everywhere. You can use the giant expanse of Green Bay as an example where there will be little conflict. Heck, small boaters only have a few (calm) days to even have a chance to fish her.
But water as skinny as the Wolf will have many conflicts between small boater, shore fisherman, and any boat capable of creating loud noises and big wakes. Unfortunately, that includes tournament anglers...
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| Rick as you know I believe there is a difference in the "high profile tournament angler" and the regular tournamnet angler. You have made some very interesting comparisons Greenbay vs, Wolf River. and some valid points but don't you think you should stand up for what you believe in, without looking for all the that negativity.
Whenever someone makes a statement of controversy about tournaments or something regarding them you seem to jump on the bandwagon and join in. Instead, as a tournament angler shouldn't you be defending them and supporting them. It appears that as a tournament angler yourself, you continue to drive on the wrong side of the road! Or am I the one on the wrong side of the road with blinders on?
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Location: Rhinelander | 'Some believe tournaments only kill and waste fish (facts do support this) '
Let's see a listing of the facts you state support 'this', and a fishery biologist's opinion supporting the 'facts'. Then let's see the facts surrounding the harvest figures on the same waters by the average angler you insist is so mad at the competitive angler. |
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Member
Posts: 540
Location: Milw, WI | Just a wild stab here.
But the facts support the people thinking this.
One example comes to mind was the outrage at the RCL greenbay a few years back.
All dead fish went in to the land fill.
Very upsetting to a lot of people.
But the reason was no one could verify that every one of these larger than eatter size fish were safe to eat.
There for not safe for a fish fry or food pantry.
Do not think he was saying the facts show wasted fish.
Just that the puplic at large has that mind set.
Which I have found to be very evident.
Which when speaking to regular fisher people, often I here" Well those tournament guys kill all the fish."
"Thats why were not getting them like we used to."
I explain that most (here in WI, anyway) strive for 100 percent release.
And they are welcome to come to the weigh ins and see the boats take the fish back out.
Resonse is mosty "I did not know that."
Just yesterday we spoke with a guy bragging about the bass tourney he fishes once a year.
He did not even know there were walleye contests, let alone the fact we put them back for next time. |
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| The B.A.S.S. is doing research to find the impact of tournament fishing on a body of water. I believe they have found that as long as the tournament catch doesn't exceed a certain percentage of the recreational catch, there is no effect. The results they had on all the bodies of water they tested (except one) had tournament catches much lower then recreational catches. (numbers like 15% - 20%) On one body of water it was like 54%, they were obviously concerned on that particular lake. I don't know for sure if pre-fishing was taken in to consideration or not, but I think it has to be when considering the impact on a fishery. I'm sure you can take the number of fish registered in any event bass or walleye and multiply it by at least two for fish caught and released on a particular day then multiply that number again to cover fish handled in conjunction with an event. I would hope the DNR would factor that with boat traffic, historical migrations of fishermen to certain areas to avoid conflicts and keep all events post spawn.
Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 8/12/2004 1:20 PM
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Why have you been nit picking my posts Sworrall? Something other than my ideas bothering you? |
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Tyee. To think that tournament fishing needs defending is to think it needs it. Why would one have to? Maybe because there are issues that do need to be addressed.
The last three years I have rubbed elbows with tournament anglers while fishing the same (how many tournaments have you fished?). Really have met some interesting people and have had many experiences, ranging from memories that will carry many positive stories, to being able to write a book about all the negativity that tournaments bring out in people.
Tournaments do have a very, very seedy side to them and if you want to push this further, I would be happy to type out some very detailed paragraphs with names and their actions.
Better yet, that book idea is excellent! Complete with pictures!
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| Seems a couple of detailed paragraphs would lend credence to your stance, Rick. To the uneducated eye (mine), it seems now that you sit squarely atop the fence, unwilling to take a stand one way or another. Perhaps this is because of your mixed experiences in tournament angling. So - more detail please. I, for one, would read with great interest.
Regards,
xxl |
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| You would think that someone who goes through the effort and expense of driving all the way to saginaw bay to prefish and not catch any weighable fish for the tournament would be a die hard tournament fisherman. You seem to just like to waste your money on these things. What is it that you like about tournaments to keep fishing them? You are consistently at the bottom of the standings so it isn't money. |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| Rick,
Obviously you know I haven't experienced the things you have in tournaments but from your posts and I've had to go back and read a number of them. I am trying to figure out what is so NEW that you have experienced to express the negative side all the time.
There is negativity, Jealousy and many other types of emotional feelings in ALL competative events. It is what is inside a person that looks at the event and interpretes it in his own mind as to what he/she will gain or "learn" from the experience. Obviously you have had some bad events and I know by your posts that there are many good things you have experienced, but more often than not, you continually express the negative side on discussion boards! Why is that?
Too the general public that may be inexperienced about this sport or wants to learn more, your posts are well.. kind of intimidating. To your friends, Maybe not but we know you as a person that loves fishing and personally I chalk it up to life experiences and hope to see more of them be enjoyable for ya!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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| Your killing me here Rick! This has to be one of your best! You would think these guys would have fiqured you out by now. Oh well, makes my day more entertaining. See you at Leech. |
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