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| Message Subject: As Big as Bass? | |||
Jimmer |
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| Merc You bring up an excellent point regarding how long BASS tournaments have been around but I truly believe this thought process can be dangerous as well. Complacency is often mistaken for laziness although I do not think that is the case here. I simply felt stacker offered a valid and profound point regarding the releasing of names prior to a tournament. I found it interesting that nobody asked how it could be done? Through what media stream? When you would release the names? etc... But rather everyone found holes in his program when perhaps it merely needed a bit of tweaking. I was always under the perception we were in this toghether and that we would all like to see walleye tournaments remain healthy and prosperous. | |||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | I'm here in Chamberlain, and I'll ask for the official response. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There was a man named H.H. Dow, who was from Midland MI that started a company called DOW Chemical. Most have heard of this very successful company. His statement of fame went like this, "I can find 100 men that can tell me it cannot be done, I am looking for the 1 who will get it done." I think we have identified some of the 100 on this post. Doing things as they have always been done is not healthy. Waiting till walleye fihing is 40 years old to make changes is not good either. This has been a good discussion, thanks guys!! | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Denny, good quote! I am one of those guys that would love to hopefully someday make my mark in getting the walleye gig to be as big as bass one day, but again, if you don't have the help of the sponsors, then it makes it a bit harder to do! Bass is much more wide spread throughout the country. Not to mention this game isn't getting any cheaper these days. I think that is a driving aspect to why there isn't new blood trying to get into the walleye game. It's not like bass where for every guy who calls it quits, there is probably 3 or more willing to jump at the opportunity. I'm not trying to look for excuses here, I'm just saying it takes time for these things to happen. I mean it's only taken Bass tournaments 40years to get where there at now. One thing I learned last year, these things don't happen overnight, you may think they can, but the fact is, they don't! | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | The Pro/Co Angler pairings and final Leader board are done the night before the event because of a number of functional aspects, including adding and subtracting Co Anglers and Pros and then re-pairing them because one or more might have to cancel last minute. The PWT told me this morning they are absolute sticklers for accuracy, and do not output the field until it is ready to be entered into the data fields for the Leader Board. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | TJ, I'm curious how you would propose to grow the sport of walleye tournament fishing? Other than waiting another 20 years. If things were left to remain status quo. I don't believe the sport would grow to the size of bass tournament fishing at it's current "size". I think Stacker and Jimmer made soem excellent points. How hard would it be to publish a list of names prior to a tournament? The MWC updates thier bulletin board on a daily basis as the early bird entrys come in. They also publish a roster well in advance of the scheduled tourney. They have a trailer and stage and all the hard work too. So yes it can be done. Media Stream....what a great set of words, getting walleye tournament fishing in a media stream, the spot light, the lime light, Attention. Attention from the public is what the sport needs to grow, finding avenues to grab that attention is what will grow the sport. NOT "We're working hard and that's just not important enough for us to deal with". Good topic. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Corny phrase game, have you heard that "If you build it, they will come"? I know you are in college, and thats good. Remember that some of us have been in the real world for quite some time. In business there needs to be a road map with destinations. You need to achieve the destinations when you say you will. Sponsors then follow. Sponsors are not road pavers, they are drivers. If you build the map, the sponsors will use the path of least resistance. And why would the sponsors want to give money to a tourney circuit? Because alot of people watch what is happening on the tourney trail and they get there name in front of millions. Who are the fans watching? The pro's. Who is fishing the chamberlain event? I don't know because they don't post the names till the day of the event. How do I get excited about going to the weigh ins? I want to see Pete Harsh, he will be there, Pete fishes them all, he is a Iron Man. NOPE, Pete has made a decision not to fish it. Does this make any sense to you what so ever? What I bring up is a starting point only. I am not try to map out success for the walleye game, just mentioning what some fans, other than myself, might want to see. Oh, by the way, it can be like bass in the aspect that players are waiting to get in, because, "If you build it, they will come". | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Steve, thanks for the official word from the PWT. If Jim is watching this, tell him we really don't care about the pairings and if that is what is holding up releasing the names before hand, delete the pairings. We don't really know who the amatures are any how. They are a valuable part so we are not discounting them, but we don't care who is fishing with who. I want to know if my heros will be fishing the event so I can come on out and cheer them on. Not just show up and find they are not there. | ||
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| butch |
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Member Posts: 701 Location: upper michigan | I would venture a guess that they have a preety good feal several weeks in advance on what PRO's are fishing these events. Not to demean the importance of the CO but the majority of the sponsorship is not for the CO but for the PRO. I get a fealing that sponsored are not getting enough bang for there buck. In the BASS world not only do you know who is fishing ahead of time but you also get bios of the bass pro's and there sponsors get some coverage also. Sponsores aren't going to offer up big money to grow our sport our sport has to show growth and the sponsores will come. I think a big step in the right direction is to get a list of the PRO's that are fishing these events up at least 2 weeks in advance would make for a little more intersting debate comeing into the tourney and maybe even some play along games like a fantasy fishing league. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Stacker, Makes sense, I'll pass this on! | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Thanks Steve. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Stacker, I totally understand what your saying, but what I'm trying to get to here is if you don't have the sponsors to help drive the drivers you won't have any drivers period. Stacker, do you have any idea what it costs on an average for a guy who fishes the PWT and FLW for one tournament? What I'm trying to say is, you cannot do this alone unless your in a different league then most with your financial situation but a majority of guys are not in this situation to be able to play the game without the sponsors. I mean there has been countless guys that have come and gone because mainly it's due to lack of funds to do it. That's why you don't have all the new young blood consistantly sticking with the walleye gig. Now look at the Bass side, when the money is there to support these guys, there is a lot more youth coming up. Take Mr. Gatzke for example, he won the Winneconne tourney last year, didn't have the type of rookie year he imagined, so he was basically left to fish two more tournaments last year, and bam he hit a home run and won a tourny. Had he not, he probably wouldnt be where he is now if he hadn't won that tournament. The cost of these tournaments for these guys is whats keeping this from getting bigger. Guys can't get to the status like the bass guys without the support from there sponsors. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | It's even more expensive in the bass world, TJ. I don't understand your point? The Elite 50 last time I checked was $5000 to enter (last time I checked was a year or two ago so forgive me if that is not current) Bass is bigger, the entry fees are bigger,the paydays are bigger. Most importantly the audience is much bigger. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Merckid I think you are talking about individuals when we are talking about the pwt as a whole. As far a sponsors for individual fisherman, that is up to them. As far as sponsorship of the series, I don't think you understand that game. I know it is hard for you to fathom at this point in your life, but many many people can afford to fish the pwt series out of pocket. In about 20 years you will understand. I do know what it takes financially to fish them. I have been around this game, playing and watching from the start of the mwc back in the 80's. I dont think you were even born yet. As far as guys coming and going, that happens at all levels. I have seen many a teams come into circuits and spout off that they will be taking everybodys money and after 2 years, there wife takes there gonads back and puts them in her purse. He is done playing. Money is a factor, but crushed ego's go ALOT FARTHER. The cost of the tournaments are not whats keeping this from getting bigger, B.A.S.S. and the FLW Tour shows that. Lack of something is stopping it from growing faster. I brought up the point of fan participation as being a factor, thats what started all this. Does anyone else have any other ideas? | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Ok, what I'm saying is, Stacker wants to see a list in advance. Well this list isn't always complete due the fact that things can change so much. What I mean by that is guys dropping out due to money situations, other problems, or they can't commit to fishing the whole circuit because they can't afford it. So not every tournament field is going to be the same like the bass guys. Now if you compare the Elite 50 with the Super Pro field, then that would be very close. Because the guys that fish on the Super Pro side have more than likely committed to fishing those Super Pro tournies already, and thats a set field. So once you see the list for that field, it's more than likely those guys will definitely be fishing the next Super Pro event. The bass side is different cause they have consistant players that no matter what, if a guy backs out at the last second then they can fill it automatically or they just go to the next person on the list, but that's so not likely on the Bass side that it's a huge deal. Audience is bigger cause again, Bass fishing is much more widespread, people take more interest in it because you can fish bass in just about every state in the US, not to mention over seas. You still can't fairly compare bass fishing tournaments to walleye tournaments. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Stacker, I fully understand and I'm aware of what your talking about, I maybe 20 but I understand what your talking about. I guess all I can say is think what you want, I'm just that 20 year old that knows nothing about nothing. But that's fine, blame it on my age, won't bruise my ego. | ||
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| Gordy |
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| I wish I would have know that they did'nt have a full field, I could have fished and then got into the one I really wanted (Mille lacs) instead I could'nt get a answer if they had openings????? Why is it so hard to just get into an event? Had they just said if you fish 2 you can get in, I would have been there! | |||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Rosters change in every team sport, baseball, football, basketball. Individual sports change too, people pull out of golf tournaments, tennis tournaments. It's not a big deal, in fact it's news gathering. John Daly going to a clinic for treament for alcohol is a good example. Is it good news? Not always, but chances are you know John Daly's name. The local newspaper will have a roster of today's games in baseball, basketball, this weekends golf tournament, granted some of it is assumption and/or speculation, but it's there for people to follow. Key word here is people.....the more people following walleye tournament fishing, the more likely the sport is going to grow. A list or roster for each event is very do-able and should be important, anything that gets people to watch/follow the "game" is important. By the way, TJ, Stacker is running the Fort Fremont Walleye Classic on April 14th. I highly recommend you come on down and watch the weigh-in. I think you'll be surprised given the size of the field. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Jayman, I know how the game works, I saw it first hand ALL last season on the PWT. Promotion and marketing is what makes something bigger and better but you can't do it without the guys to do it! | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | I ask again, How would you promote it and market it to grow the sport of walleye tournament fishing? I've only heard you say don't change a thing, other than maybe lower entry fees. And that putting out a list of names who are fishing an event is too hard to do 'til the last minute How would YOU make it better? | ||
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| butch |
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Member Posts: 701 Location: upper michigan | How hard can it be to release a list of names for all the pro's that signed up for an event or all the events if they paid they should be on the roster pretty basic. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Jaymen, here is a few of my ideas, not saying this is going to happen but you asked how I would strive to make the sport of walleye tournament fishing better? #1. Well first off, and this is my idea, whether it would work I do not know but these are some ideas I would highly suggest and push for. Look at BASS, you know how much hype the BASS Master Classic gets because they air that live. You air the FLW and PWT championships live on a national television, that will draw attention right there alone! I understand you have to have money, and the resources to do it, but I'm saying this is how I would push to make walleye tournament fishing better and to promote it. #2. Another huge thing that I know numberous colleges have is college bass fishing teams. You want to promote tournament fishing, well this is the place to do it. This is where a young anglers career could begin. Here is the bass link to this, very interesting. Even good ole Wisconsin has a team. Not only would this help promote tournament fishing, but it would also lead to better numbers going or wanting to go pro once they come out of college. http://www.collegebass.com/ #3. The next aspect and probably one of the biggest things you need to push is the youth programs. Getting kids in the outdoors. I know at the PWT Championship many of the pros take time to visit area schools and talk about fishing, bringing along there boats and letting them crawl all over them. These few things are just a few ideas I personally have, I'm sure there are people with there doubts but these are ideas to make walleye tournament fishing bigger and better. Edited by Merckid 4/4/2007 2:25 PM | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | TJ, it's Jayman, only me, not "playing" behind multiple handles. Hopefully it's just a typo. Idea's, finally now we're getting somewhere. I agree, ultimately getting the FLW tour championship and the PWT championship on live TV would be a good thing. The costs to implement make it challenging and a risk. Walleye fishing needs to develop some personalities. Tommy Skarlis comes to mind, love him or hate him, he does well in front of the camera. Mike Iconelli is another fine example, even if you don't follow Bass tourneys, if you fish, there's a pretty good chance you've heard this guys name. College walleye, not a bad idea, income of college kids is extremely limited the NCAA would have to figure out a way to make money off it before it would become successfull? add a little sarcasm here, the NCAA is a "machine" at making money off "poor college" kids. Youth Programs, while I agree getting youth into a sport early in their life will likely result in a life long passion for a sport. Getting parents to bring their children into a sport is even more important. By that I mean, if dad goes fishing 1 or 2 weekends out of the month, there is a good chance Dad's kids are going to go fishing with dad and be exposed to the sport. How do you get dad to come out to a tournament weigh-in and bring the kids? I think one thing that needs to happen in walleye tournament fishing right now, is the PWT vs FLW needs to end and become more of a partnership. Competition between two circuits is great, as long as it's friendly competition. People tend to focus on the negatives and bash which results in nothing good. Having an option is always a good thing, bashing one circuit til one finally gets ran out of town is not going to help us in the long run. Participation, getting "fans" out to tournament weigh-ins. Tournaments need "hooks", something to bring the folks out. If you can get them to come out for other activities while the field is out fishing, the gathering of people which results in exposure, is going to hang around for the weigh-in. They got a stage, use it. Live music, comedy acts, tap into local talent. yes it's more work and more planning but it gives a community a chance to showcase itself while "tourists" are in town. Vendor/Sponsor participation, get these people out to represent themselves if possible. Not neccessarily as a "show" rep. but as a participant, Maybe XYZ for such and such company comes up the stage to introduce big fish honors, or such. Let the vendors/sponors get their exposure by participating not just giving thier product spiel, people get bored with commericals real quick. Camera feeds, right now the big tourneys have camera boats out filming how hard would it be to set up a couple big screen TV's near a leader board or stage and show the fishermen fishing as the camera boats are out filming, with this day and age of wireless technology. Cabela's NTC does a nice job of showing the fishermen fishing while they weigh-in their baskets. I'm suggesting to expand on this. Corporate sponsors, set-up a place for corporate sponsors to meet. Their is a lot of business that is conducted at sporting events, I'm sure many of you have heard of Skyboxes, Luxury Seeting, Corporate Seating, Corporate Pit Passes, Sponsor Gallery. When XYZ company comes out to see thier product represented they can still do business, bring key customers out to see first hand. More people, more exposure. | ||
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| Numbers |
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| It would be terrific if the walleye tournament scene grew to the size of bass events, but it can't, the numbers don't support it. According to a variety of surveys, some by the USFWS, some by the sporting goods retailers, the total percentage of anglers who fish for bass is somewhere around 60 percent. They are available in every one of the lower 48 states, plus Hawaii. Plus, getting people excited about bass fishing, redfish, tarpon or even sharks is much easier than walleyes. The reason is simple, all of these fish provide a more exciting physical fishing experience. While trolling leadcore on the Illinois for 3-pound saugers is exciting to us, or pulling boards for big walleyes on the Great Lakes may produce some slabs, it doesn't compare to the strength a redfish has or the explosive, although brief, fight a bass provides when taking a topwater or the gutting wrenching power a tarpon or shark has. All of these can be presented well in television formats and make "exciting" television. Walleye fishing tournament coverage is generally only of interest to anglers who like to fish walleye tournaments or are thinking about fishing them. There are many walleye anglers who detest tournaments. I don;t know the numbers, but I'd guess an awful lot of the bass guys are fans of tournament fishing. | |||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | There once was a time when baseball was considered America's past time. I think the demographics have changed to Football since. So long as people within the walleye community view our sport as a boring sport, it will remain a boring sport. Change has to come from within, not outside. | ||
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