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| Message Subject: VHS found in Winnebago | |||
Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | My personal health will not cost the jobs of countless people living in the mid-west if we fail to address issues like this properly. What if the fish in 'Bago and the Great Lakes are able to develop a tolerance to VHS and it ends up having a negiligible impact on our fisheries? Should we risk the jobs of all of the people tied to the cheap transporation the GL's provide on an emotional whim? I understand that this is an emotional issue and that some people such as yourself have more to lose than others, but we MUST make sure we approach this issue rationally or we could make things even worse. Perhaps there is a fiscal rationale for closing the seaway to saltwater traffic. Like any decision, if we do our homework, present a logical case and do so with a level head, we stand a much better chance of accomplishing our goals than if we make unsupported emotional pleas. BTW, this isn't an attack on you or anyone else here Dan. I want more than anything to make sure the right thing is done. That's why I want to make sure we are making decisions for the right reasons. | ||
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| carrocr |
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| Bad Analogy. That doesn't quit work in this case Capt Dan. A closer analogy that shows Brad point would be if you have been diagnosed with terminal cancer, but instead of uniting your family and friends together to help you though the Chemo treatment that has a small chance of working, you spend all of your time and energy trying to get the FDA to approve some treatment that you heard about from some voodoo doctor in Maylasia so that you can have said treatment in the U.S. and paid for by insurance. Instead of joining together and working towards something attainable you are barking up the wrong FED tree. When Mad Cow disease was the buzz in the news were people joining together to try and shut down the highways so that infected cows couldn't get transported? I completely agree this is something that needs a LOT of attention. But spending that attention trying to obtain the unattainable it a waste of that effort. I believe that was Brad's and Gordy's point. Not that they want to ignore the problem, but that if they/we are going to join a fight, let's make it a winnable one. | |||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Treating ballast water, limiting discharge, and more... The waters of the Great Lakes belong to us all in the US and Canada, and the shipping companies have a responsibility to take care not to harm them. That responsibility hasn't been taken too seriously in the past, and may never be, but trying to get something done as an individual or group is a heck of alot better than sitting one one's hands. The only way improvements are going to happen is interaction with the Feds, and our state folks raising enough cain to get attention directed at this issue. | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | The last thing I have been doing is sitting on my hands. Too hard to type that way. When we can't even get simple rules like treating ballast water passed, I think suggesting closure of the entire seaway is a bit foolhardy. All I ask is that everyone take a deep breath and act in a manner that will further our cause. Emotional pleas for help look great on the news, but this issue need more than that. Its the science, dollars, and cents that need to drive this, not another "think about the children" emotional outcry. Its easy to see how a guide's business may suffer from the effect of invasives. If we can broaden the scope of this to show how entire communities AND business/manufacturing facilities will be hurt, it will be much easier to make real changes. Until then, its just not going to happen. Oh, and let's not for get this is more than a Great Lakes issue. The Mississippi represents the same threat. Edited by Brad B 5/14/2007 11:07 AM | ||
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| walleye express |
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 Member Posts: 2680 Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | If this was the very first thing brought in by these ships over the many years they have been traveling Great Lakes waters, I'd say trying to halt all shipping would be a bit hasty and dramatic. But being able to rattle off at least 15 invasive's even I know of, and with one article saying a new one is introduced on the average of every 28 days, those facts and the failed shipping safeguards up until now alarm me greatly. Our fish may well develop an immunity to this new threat and God make it so. But even I can roll a 7 given enough failed/unfettered tosses of the dice. I guess My part of what I can physically do is basically over. I've written all my state reps and our Governor. Made crystal clear my feelings on the matter. I also signed the petition. I'll make the time (if it happens) to attend any meeting on the subject and listen with an open mind about any suggested solutions by either party. I may be emotionally involved in this subject but have always been level headed about working solutions. I'm not against Big Business (I'm a GM retiree remember) or want to see any jobs associated with shipping lost in ours or other states. Hell, I'm one of the few plane citizens physically attending meetings and verbally defending Dow Corning on the Tittabawassee River clean-up project. Not for their poor standards and safeguards from what they and many others manufacturers did during the 1970's, but for taking responsibility now, keeping their business thriving and employing US workers in a hostile (revenge ridden) environment, while spending BIG bucks changing things for the better now. In fear of my emotional ratings on this VHS subject spoiling an honest debate, I'll make this my last post on the subject. And for the book, I found nobodies answer to my posts offensive. I hope mine were not taken the wrong way either. Edited by walleye express 5/14/2007 11:13 AM | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Stopping "Saltys" from traveling the Great Lakes seems like a monumental task in the minds of most. Let's take a look at this from an even larger scale. The Great Lakes is just a micro scale problem of what the real big problem is. Ballast water discharge. In about 6th grade I learned that the Earth's surface is about 2/3rds water. The Great Lakes is a very very small percentage in comparable size. It sure makes me wonder how screwed the oceans are going to get before we react to that problem. By then it could be too late. Many strange dieseases have been carried by boat through out modern man kind's travels. Think outside the box.....because I don't have the answer based on what I've been told. In the big picture, stopping "saltys" from traveling the Great lakes should seem like a "small" step. | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | As mentioned before. This problem is not new. What is new is finding VHS in an inland lake. We have had these problems for a very long time but it appears that nothing gets done at the federal level to correct the introduction of invasive species. When will we as a society get to a point that enough is enough? There are more than 160 nonindigenous, or invasive, species that have become established in and around the Great Lakes. Why do we continue to let this happen? I believe that we are all a part of the problem. We do not or have not taken the actions needed to voice our concerns and make our appointed officials stand up and take notice. Let’s be honest with ourselves, how many of us have done anything up to this point? Sounds to me that Captain Dan is one of the few. Unfortunately the legislature does not listen to the few. It takes a very large collective voice to create change. It’s hard for me to believe that with all of our technological knowledge we can not come up with a long term solution to invasive species and specifically the VHS virus. My brief research show that there are agencies trying to come up with solutions for all invasive species. What I have not seen, is a public outcry that may be needed to wake up everyone. Walleyes For Tomorrow has done an absolutely wonderful job of educating and helping the walleye and sauger populations of Winnebago. Is it possible that they (we) can expound on their success and work on this issue? What good does it do to create more spawning reefs and help with stocking programs when the fish are dying? I know that I am jumping the gun here prior to scientific evidence that shows that the walleye population will be severely hurt. But it has happened in other places where VHS has been found AND VHS is front page news now. We all need to keep this in the forefront because it becomes non-news and people forget about it. I have started doing some reading to better educate myself to the problem and possible solutions. Here are some websites that I have found so far. http://www.great-lakes.net/envt/flora-fauna/invasive/invasive.html http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/mso/ans.htm http://www.great-lakes.net/teach/pollution/ans/ans_1.html http://www.nmc.edu/glwsi/ http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/res/Programs/nsmain.html http://www.glc.org/ans/pdf/briefpapercomplete.pdf | ||
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| Richfish |
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Member Posts: 540 Location: Milw, WI | Well think of this. The Mississippi river is connected direct to lake michigan. Via the Illinois river. So any one who fished there early this year and did not bleach all your livewells, and bilge. You brought it home to waters you next launched your boat in. Any one tryed to fish Lake Delavan , the zebra mussels in there cover the standing weeds. I hate to stir the pot or sound so negative , but last year I bleached out our livewell while my partner slept. So it got done before putting the boat in to devils lake. He thought putting the bleach water in the system would screw it up and make it unsafe for holding the fish later. I explained that the bleach goes inert after so much exposure to air. But he did not want it done. So I got it done. The water is never completly out of our boats, that is why those hoses,speed o's., and pumps freeze and burst in the winter time. We must disinfect after each use. Or they must do before you are allowed out the the parking lot at the lakes,or before you are allowed to put in. More jobs more money but it must be done. It should be the law for us boaters to disinfect the boats after leaving any body of water. Drain systems at the lake, then pour in the mixture. 5 gallon bucket of water (can be done with lake water from your drain) , 1/2 gallon of bleach. What is the cost like $0.60 each time. In a few hours the water would be safe to drain out, done. Edited by Richfish 5/14/2007 12:17 PM | ||
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| AvgJoe |
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Member Posts: 141 Location: Oshkosh, WI | The do's/don't list posted earlier in this thread seems to make sense. I found this additional recommendation on a Canadian Fact Sheet: "Never return fish with obvious signs of disease to the water. If you are concerned that a fish is showing obvious signs of disease, contact your local fisheries authority." Is the idea of cleaning up the dead and dying fish just crazy because there would be no way to stay ahead of the sheer numbers? It seems like anything that could be done to reduce the viral load in the water would reduce the number of fish killed in the first spike of the epidemic - giving more fish a chance to build resistance so the population would not have to be decimated before beginning to rebuild. I am sure this would have no effect in the great lakes, but what about in a shallow inland lake system? If there is a fisheries biologist in the house, I would be interested your thoughts. | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | More interesting reading............ Of the roughly 500 salties entering the Great Lakes in a year, only about 10 percent come under federal ballast discharge regulations. The rest are exempt because they are cargo laden and report no ballast onboard (NOBOB). NOBOB vessels are required to submit ballast water reporting forms and encouraged to flush their ballast tanks mid-ocean (swish and spit) but they may still carry residual water or sediments into the Great Lakes. Motivated by the number of new invasive species reports from the Great Lakes, Michigan lawmakers insist all ships with ballast tanks that have floated on salt water and then expect to use ports in the ‘wolverine state’ need scrutiny and a $150 annual permit; NOBOB vessels included. Additionally, by approving Bill 332, they indicated dissatisfaction with mid-ocean ballast flushing and its ability to purge potential AIS. The new Michigan law requires that ballast water be kept onboard, or be treated by a state-approved method before discharge. “Michigan is taking a necessary and important step towards protecting the Great Lakes,” said Robert McCann, Press Secretary for the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. “We’re proud to be moving forward but, to really succeed in stopping invasive species from entering the Great Lakes through ballast water, every Great Lakes state and every Great Lakes province needs to participate.” “Similar ballast laws are being considered in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Indiana,” said Bergeron. “What happens with the Michigan law will likely impact what those states attempt.” Among Michigan ports, Detroit and Menominee could be most affected by the new law since they handle the majority of saltwater ships in the state. However, the number of ships is very small since most of the salties on the Great Lakes are bound for Canadian ports and terminals in other states. To date, no shipping companies have applied for a Ballast Water Control General Permit from Michigan — although there is still time, since the ocean-going shipping season doesn’t begin until late March. The whole article and web page................. http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/newsletter/2007/02/law_center_identifie... | ||
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| eyekatcher |
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Member Posts: 67 | Here is a question posed to me today at one of the local bait shops today maybe someone has an answer or recomendation concerning this. The DNR has issued a release that states if you catch a fish with VHS or showing signs of infection you are not to return it back to the water. Which is fine and I agree with that but that leads to the question of if we do that are they willing to allow those fish to not be counted as our daily bag limit. I think it is our resposibility as sportsman to do the right thing but how many guys will go out there and say the first five walleyes they pull are infected actually put them in their boat? Interesting question I thought, would hope that they would look at that and take that into consideration if they would pull you over and check you catch. I know a lot of you here guide and alot more of us here fish tournaments what is your take on this and how it could affect not only the daily guy out there catching fish to eat but those who depend on those fish for their living. Interesting thought.... | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | June is Invasive Species Awareness Month During June, which is designated as Invasive Species Awareness Month in Wisconsin, numerous field trips, workshops, presentations and work parties are being held throughout the state to teach citizens about invasive species and what they can do to stop the spread. People can find more about invasive species and Invasive Species Awareness Month through the Invasive Species Council’s Web site at http://invasivespecies.wi.gov/ (exit DNR) or on the DNR invasive species Web pages. Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| Purple Skeeter |
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Member Posts: 885 | Although DNR officials are trying to determine a cause for the local VHS discovery, Arrowood said he knows of dozens of fishermen, including some who fish on Lake Puckaway, who have taken their boats to fish in Lake Erie, a walleye-fishing hotspot where VHS was first reported in 2005. This quote from the WI DNR shows that even they suspect that the virus was transported by fisherman who had visited Lake Erie this spring and brought back the infected water containing the virus. Time to enact new rules to protect our waters. Purple Skeeter link below Edited by Purple Skeeter 5/14/2007 9:18 PM | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/agenda/2007/070401-VHS.pdf A good read, I hope someone is rewriting section 3 to include the Winnebago system NOW. Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | PS There are new rules that I know many don't follow, Bilge, livewell and trailer needs to be free of all aquatic plants and water as the virus can survive for up to 14 days in water. There is a hefty fine, and of recent it IS being highly enforced at landings around the state especially those close to this system. Wardens are out in full force at many landings giving out tickets. Personaly, I find it very difficult to remove vegetation from my rig when pulling out of most of the landings on the Winnebago system. I have a roller trailer so it isn't too hard but it IS impossible to remove all. I can only imagine how hard it is for the bunk guys. What can we do to free these landings of all the weeds that are present in June and July. Where can we get funding to do this as well who can we get to do this. I know the law has been in place for sometime now, but it is virtually impossible to accomplish it effectively on this shallow body of water...SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET THESE LANDINGS CLEAN ENOUGH TO PREVENT THIS. (Maybe a small step but needs to be done.) Good luck Tyee | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Walleyes for Tomorrow is expected to be one of several groups at Saturdays event in Appleton protesting the future opening of the Fox River lock system. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO!!!!!!!!! Lets act as one group no matter who you blame, Opening the Locks is not a good thing. http://www.friendsofthefox.org/ Where: Appleton Lock #2 CBC Parking Lot, Olde Oneida Street, Adjacent to Lock #2 Appleton, WI When: Saturday May 19th , 2007 1 P.M to 4:00 P.M. Lets see some ideas for protest signs, I'll make up a few! Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Tyee, I'll assume that others like myself who would love tobe there will be prefishing for the MWS in Menoninee. Keep us posted on how it went. From Today's Milwaukee Journal............... http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=605216 | ||
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| RCI |
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| Would this show up on all species of fish? the reason i ask is that i just caught a northern on the Big Eupleine Resivior and it had marking on both sides just like the ones on the walleye shown in this article. it had marking on both sides in the same locations. | |||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Yes, it is possible. See chart 1 of this report. PS... this is the best resource that I have found so far: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/ceah/cei/taf/emergingdiseasenotice_fil... | ||
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| Larrys |
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Member Posts: 340 Location: McFarland, WI | I too am concerned about boat transfer of this virus but the fish eating birds will also transfer this virus when they carry dead fish back to nesting sites. This will be short distance transfer in most cases but it can lead to gradual spread throughout the fresh water lakes. Efforts to disinfect boats will work better to curtail spread of other invasive species but with VHS we may not be able to prevent the natural dissemination of the virus. Therefore if the virus crops up in a local lake don't be to fast in indicting a fisherman, especially if you see cormorants, eagles, pelicans, and herons in the area. | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Great insight Larry! I have a question for ya’. You are the closest person I know who is an expert on animal science. Some of the readings that I have encountered suggest that the VHS virus will now be with us forever. They also suggest that given time, the fish may/will develop an immune system for the disease. If this is true are we doing more harm than good in the long run by removing any diseased fish? Are we prolonging this process? I’ve never been a person that condones taking a wait and see approach. But if these ‘experts” are correct aren’t they suggesting that once a body of water is infected the best we can do is nothing? Let mother nature try to correct our mistakes? The only other plausible remedy that I have read is total eradication of all infected fish. On another note: Here is a follow-up to your comment. Fish-eating birds, such as the gray heron, can be mechanical vectors of VHS virus, but passage through the gastrointestinal tract of birds appears to inactivate the virus. The virus does not appear to be transmitted by parasitic vectors or to be capable of replication in insects. In the hatchery environment, mechanical transfer of VHS virus on the surface of animate or inanimate objects presents a substantial hazard. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | i live between lake winnibaggo and lake michigan . there are hundreads of seagulls that fly between these waters every day . depending on wind conditions on the big lake ... this may have been transfered by boats but odds are pretty good that the transmittle can be done by mother nature . i keep my boat clean i check for weeds and zebras i make sure my wells are empty .. i put my boat in lake michigan twice last year.. i didnt run my motor dry ,, maybe i did it. lets try to make sure our boats are clean when we put in on our smaller lakes but this may not be the cause of transfer . if you have a seagull on your small inland lake or pond .. or a goose.. that may be the cause .. maybe its in the ground water. we know most of our lakes are connected in one way shape or form ... but pointing fingers , all you want guys its too late.. one thing is for sure .. its not the only exotic we will be exposed too. the only way to stop it is to not allow ships from salt water enter into our fresh water cannals .. transfer cargo to fresh water ships on a dock when it enters the country or shut down the shipping... not too many choices to stop future exotics. | ||
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| waldo winne |
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| With the fish struggling to cope with VHS the DNR needs to step up and help out the system by closing the season on Winnebago until after the spawn and imposing slot and lower limits. Unfortunately we all need to forget about the past the times have changed for good. | |||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Waldo, How do you know that will work? How do you know that it won't do more harm than good? Maybe, just maybe having too many fish in the system will cause the spread to get worst not better. For all you and I know, the answer may be just the opposite of what you suggest. Take all limits off and let people harvest the fish before they all die. Of course this answer may be just as silly as yours. Who knows? Not many people down this road before. | ||
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| eyekatcher |
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Member Posts: 67 | With this virus being in the water, and the fact that it stays on your boat, bunks, trailers ect for up to a week or more. What about nets. When we are cleaning our boats, trailer and such do not forget to disenfect your net as well. Just one small thing that I think most people would over look. I know it is going to be hard to get everyspot on your boat, and trailer but I do think we need to get in the practice of doing what we can to limit this virus. It will be a shame to think of the impact on the system as the DNR has worked hard over the past years to make the Winnebago system one of the best fisheries in the nation for Walleyes, Smallies, and yes even Muskies if you know where to go. Just hope all that hard work does not go to waste. | ||
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