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Location: Rhinelander | Stacker;
Because that rumor was part and parcel of that aftermath of that event? I heard that, and from several sources, and not just once. Did I believe it? No, had no reason to believe it or not believe it, it sounded like a sour grapes rumor over the fact many anglers felt they had absolutely no chance to catch a fish under those conditions, and the event was, due to conditions, a crap shoot. Not discussing what happened that created the situation that allowed that sort of rumor to get going won't make the rumor go away. Clarifying what really happened, which some are interested in doing, will, if everyone sticks to the facts and the basis of the question and stops tossing darts. |
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Location: Rhinelander | I was poking fun at you and Dan with all the 'cuz' and 'cousin in law' stuff, Juls. Expect it in the future, I will do it again... 
And I did say you assisted in getting out what he actually meant.
Lord knows without a sense of humor this would be a dull life. Mine is sometimes leaning a little to much towards the British. |
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Location: Appleton wi | man o man what a thread. winter isnt officaially here yet but me thinks its going to be a long winter!LOL |
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| "Clarifying what really happened, which some are interested in doing, will, if everyone sticks to the facts and the basis of the question and stops tossing darts."
Steve, I understood your point, I think you've chose to ignore mine. Thankfully somebody understood it. Stacker, you get a gold Star
But I digress, So to get this straight...we should be clarifying and sticking to the facts by letting a hearsay rumor remain in the form of a question, weather it be true or not?
Outstanding! |
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| going to be a fun off season, some one has to promise a new topic every week so we can kill the winter, this one actually helped me through a boring day at work, Thanks to all!! |
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Location: Rhinelander | Actually the 'snagged fish' argument was never in play other than a question about what Dan actually read on forums on the internet about that MWC event, obviously mentioned by Dan in order to question the choice of a temperamental river system at a time of year where severe flooding easily could create a situation just like this one did, not to accuse anyone in particular...the rumors were out there; bad rumors put forth by angry folks (some of them claiming anonymously to be in the event), but there none the less. Anyone want to deny that? That discussion was OVER as Juls and Dan settled it, clarifying positions nicely until someone else (actually, a couple someones) decided to ignore all that and roll in a few personal insult grenades.
My effort was to point out the above, and that in all probability once every ten years or so the Illinois River is going to flood, in a spectacular fashion, and right during the event. It's not the location at that point, it's the decision to send out the field in an event that due to horrible and actually dangerous conditions is no longer a tournament, it's a crap shoot. Not to diminish the win, but one fish to win a two day event is...one fish. Great they won, but in my opinion (which all of this from all of us is, just opinion) the event shouldn't have been on under those conditions.
Quick to the trigger a good shot makes no one.
And, I think the MWC Schedule is just fine. Since I don't fish it or report on it (yet) and have no reason to think anything to the contrary, I think it's wonderful.
And it's out, blowing up a BNB declaration. Worth the price of admission alone!
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| Hello All,
I was fortunate enough to fish the MWC for the first time last year. Spring Valley was not anything I ever expected or enjoyed. But, if you want to play with the big boys, you have to pay. The main draw was two quality fisheries like Green Bay and Lake Winnebago. The MWC is a professionally run circuit with excellent anglers. If the snagged fish story is true, they will have to live with the fact that they had to cheat to win. We all need to sit back and realize the fact is that not every American is given the chance to be able to do what we can do. The ability to fish walleyes, saugers, or any other finned friend, is rewarding. I am very thankful to be able to fish! Please take a child out fishing and then think twice about getting riled up about any circuit or money or anything else that makes your life click. I personally would like to thank Christine, Talia, Dan, and Jeff for a great season. Please think before you type. We are all human beings and have feelings. Weather or not you can see us face to face. I look forward to a second great year in a premier circuit.
Thanks again,
Mike Rabetski
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| lil gloating from Rich S...... |
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Location: Berlin | I am not sure what you mean. I am happy Spring Valley is the first stop next year if that is what you are talking about. I guess I would not call that gloating. |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | I think that you are all cousins!
There, I offended everyone at once..................... I got to go outside and check the ground, must be snow on the ground.
How da' heck did I end up getting slammed in this post? Some people's kids!
20 paces at Noon CT
Quick stop .................. go out and enjoy the weather before it's too late. |
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| sunshine, can we do 10 paces, I don't want to have to take my shoes off. |
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Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | ok here we go again! will you guys take a chill pill. First of all, of course there are going to be a lot of unsuccessful tournament anglers .. remember 80% payout to 20% OF THE FIELD sorry there will always be 80% of the tournament fisherman JUDGED by many on this websight as unsuccessfull!!!!! i will tell you this though.. if i had a thousand dollar bill and i had a choice to pick a team that fished 5 years on the mwc to win a tournament on a nutral body of water AGIANSt THE WHOLE LOT OF WALLEYE FIRST HEAVY HITTER COMENTATIORS ! Im thinking the unsuccessfull mwc team would be a safe bet to win even if they finnished the last five years without making money. just because they have been unsuccesfull doesnt mean they arent good fisherman... if i were a pro-golfer and shot par rounds the whole pga season missed 3 fourths of the cuts and never cashed a real check... does that make me an unsuccessfull pro golfer even though i could kick the crap out of 99% of the self proclaimed good golfers on the golfers first web sight? so quick to judge are we at times.... everyone here that has ever fished an mwc event knows of the competion level! it is the tuffest competion you will find anywhere!!!!!!! in the walleye world.. spring valley , lake winnibago , the bay of green bay , mississippi river, YOU NAME IT! you better be on fish or you will be getting your @$$ handed to you !!!!!!!!!!!!! these teams with a few days to a week to pre fish will take your money and your big ego if you dont have your game on that day! UNSUCCESSFULL anglers????LOL what ever you say i guess... SURE 80% OF THE FIELD IS UNSUCCESSFUL!!!! ALL YEAR LONG.. LETS SEE YOU FINISH IN THE TOP 5 % ALL YEAR ! I THINK THATS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE TO COME OUT AHEAD! THEREFORE BEING A SUCCESSFULL YEAR! FOR MOST QUALIFYING FOR THE CHAMPIIONSHIP IS A GOOD FIRST GOAL. AFTER THAT ITS ALL GRAVY. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | lol As long as you guys are trying to get things straight on all this......just for the record....I fished the FIRST MWC event in 1987, NOT 1988! lol So there.....now I've added my two cents to this fiasco.
If only we could be as big as other major league sports and have several million people a day get into discussions about our sport like this thread.
lol |
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | What the......................
Now we have a GolfersFIRST web sight? Man, it's hard to keep up with you guys  |
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| "If only we could be as big as other major league sports and have several million people a day get into discussions about our sport like this thread"
Walleye fishing obviously needs a steroid doping scandal...or an "accidental" on stage breast exposure...or big furry mascots like the Philly Fanatic. No wonder the PWT closed shop...it had NONE of those things. Get with the program people.
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | FINALLY! SOMEBODY THAT GETS IT!
Thumper's my man. |
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| Normally, you'd have to pay for this:
Attachments
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 fanatic.jpg (4KB - 68 downloads)
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Location: Neenah, WI | The PWT did have a mascot but he was mis-understood and under rated. Here's lookin' at ya Jimmy Klick. |
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| Dale,
Absolutely HILARIOUS. Jimmy Klick rocked!!!! He was an awesome stick and an over-the-top fun personality that the PWT and FLW tried to keep under wraps.
The speedos, the airbrush stage shirts. Just awesome!! |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | "mis-understood and under rated."
Very KEY words when defining how the marketing history has gone in competitive fishing.
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There are 2 other words Steve, greed and self serving, comes to mind. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Are we saying the model that was in place for Walleye Tournament Angling and competitive angling in general was created by greedy and self serving folks or fished by same? If so, I beg to differ. The entire history of the sport, going all the way back in angling annals to...wow, really old, really old...1987 reflects otherwise.
Devil's advocate here, but the event organizers created the venue the anglers operate within and offer them the very opportunity to play the game, as it is, critical observations on marketing aside. No event, no opportunity. SOMEONE has to foot the bill to get the thing going, and then justify that expense to owners, stockholders, etc. In the case of a major circuit, one had better have close to quarter mil on hand just to get things rolling, and that's PRE Sponsor dollars that will be spent. I'd bet $100,000 could be spent pretty quickly on a regional circuit, while up to a grand on a one day event once a year isn't out of the question. Big investment for an individual OR an organization, and it needs to pay off in the long run somehow. Now try to get live TV onsite. In fact, hire the video folks to shoot and produce a TV show, and pay the money to air each episode to a cable outfit, perishing the very thought of national TV on one of the majors. Expensive.
Now, go find sponsors to pay for all of this, get enough money put together to survive, and pay the salaries of the folks working for the circuit. Tough sledding, that, even in good times. That's why most events have the anglers fishing for their own money, and most times just a portion of it. I think what Mr. Fellegy is encouraging isn't a reorganization of who or how tournaments are funded and run, but how they are marketed to and COVERED by the media; all media, so that the Pros and the sponsors get their investment in the sport returned in a more productive manner for all. It's tough to 'cover' yourself;witness the two circuits that are print media based with supplemental certainly not live cable TV coverage. It's difficult to offer all sides, be open, unbiased and even critical of your own business to the general fan base, not to mention contrary to basic human nature. That's why the 'media' is so often disliked by major sports teams, even though without said 'media', the team wouldn't be out in front of the fans.
This is a tough game in a limited market with limited opportunity, but is still pretty darn cool for those who take part, the fans, and the media. Yes, it can and should be 'done better', and that's happening now, I think. Stand by, and root for the economy to get back on track. |
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| I'm rooting for it Steve.
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Mr. Worral is "Devils advocate" here? I'll be an Angel then! lol
How's this.....Anyone can create "opportunity" with huge amounts of money/sponsors. BUT!!! Remember and respect the fact...the ANGLERS invest MORE $$ into each event--without any direct return and with a much bigger gamble than the event organizers/sponsors. EVERYONE that works at creating the events, and works at them etc. in key positions, get paid directly. ALL sponsor reps have expenses/mileage and salaries paid for their appearances at every event. No gamble. Even the guy bumping the fish at the high level tour events gets rooms/meals etc. paid for--historically. So be careful when you speak to who puts these events/tours on. BOTH sides of the fence invest heavily!!! BOTH could not exist without the other--NO DOUBT! But both do NOT get paid equally or anything close per their investment.
Mr. Worral is right about Fellegy. Fellegy wants a whole NEW CULTURE created on how competitive fishing is covered/marketed. Thus...creating fans that will become consumers.
I watched 15 hours of football and baseball last weekend and listened to/read ALL the reports after all of the games. And NEVER heard a commentator nor a player speak to any ball company or shoe compnay or glove company or jock strap company! And all the while, people became fans...and Wilson/Rawlings/Nike etc. got plenty of consumers in the process. Go figure.....
FANS! What makes fans? Answer THAT....and $$ go WAAAY up in competitive fishing ranks. To the industry and the anglers. The answer is and has been in front of everyone from the beginning.
Edited by Steve Fellegy 10/29/2008 6:09 PM
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Location: Rhinelander | If anyone can, 'anyone' should have, but didn't. In the last thirty years only three did successfully, and one was a team format. Looks like AIM is about to break that mold. We are on the same 'side', Steve, I'm just pointing out another viewpoint...or two.
Correction on one comment, not all sponsor reps are paid expenses and a salary, some of us are independent reps. More of us than some think.
Football and Baseball are team sports. The team is owned by a wealthy person or group; in a few cases by larger groups. They buy the best talent they can out of organized College sports ( FLW Collegiate Bass?) with the money invested to compete against the teams put together by other wealthy people. Players are basically contract employees. HUGE money is spent on PR, and the Games are played in huge stadiums that can be not that full at times. That is a model that that isn't going to work in Pro Fishing unless it becomes a 40 man roster team sport and it's figured out how to get the action in front of the fans while it's happening. Instead of speaking about the products they endorse on camera at the event, the top Pros do so in TV and magazine commercials. They can't during a game, they are paid by the owners to play, not speak. Speaking about endorsements happens off the clock, and in some cases for millions. No one even cares much what undies an MWC angler wears, anyway, and no Walleye tournament so far has ever been presented live enough to compete with the Games on any media.
I believe I said the Pros are, as a result of the model in play, fishing for a portion of their own money; the losers donate their dollars to the winners. As of late, a relatively new concept adds the goal of winning the more serious contingencies paid out for a good finish or win...a good idea that needs to be expanded, yet still rife with arguments for and against-money to the anglers based on what product they run and their performance at the end of the day.
They built it...and the Anglers came.
Chris Rock said it onstage, paraphrasing here: Shaq is RICH. The guy who signs his check is WEALTHY.
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