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| In an earlier post of mine I believe I said you cant compare fishing to the other sports because it isn't the same. There is no hands on like nascar, football, etc. Unless you go out in a boat and watch your favorite fisherman all day you see nothing but the weigh in. We have a product here that is very hard to promote compared to all the others, and Bass has aquired ESPN its as simple as that, they are huge and we all know that. Until the walleye market can get on board with them or the internet coverage gets huge we are at the mercy of the few fans that come. That is why I was liking this format at fisrt, there were little things suggested that all of us as anglers could do to help out at no cost to us but some time. Now this has gotten way out of control and I for one am done reading, but I want to thank you, who gave me some new suggestions that I myself will impliment this year to help our sport as much as I can. See you on the water, John Schneider |
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Location: Rhinelander | John,
There are indeed some great suggestions here, and it's a good thing to keep dialog open. Let's continue the conversation without all the distraction.
I believe the fan base for larger venue walleye tournaments will continue to grow as the sport recovers from an economic thrashing unlike any experienced in the past. I think the AIM model is a good start towards recognizing the old model was broken, that the MWC will regain much of it's previous luster, that the paradigm shift we are seeing from print to electronic media will continue, and that the tournament organizers will give the fans what they want if the fans communicate same loudly enough.
I firmly believe each tournament angler out there can assist in the process, but the responsibility for bringing the events to the fans belongs to the media at the end of the day. At least a portion of the key is expanding horizons for each media source as the shift continues, allowing for the coverage to expand in kind.
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| Is there an apparel company that follows the tour and offers shirts that feature the fishermen for the public? |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | John, you hit it right on the head. It is tough for some to think small, it always has to be huge. I for one think that if an extra 50 people attend every weigh-in this year, that equates to a success. Then next year the new attendees will tell 2 friends and they will tell 2 and wow, do we have quite a crowd. we do not nor will we ever get 50,000 screaming fans. Nor do we need them. RNT thinks on a large level. I for one know that 1000 people showing up to a one day event is quite good.
NOW, back to cheap and easy. Remember when we were all kids and you used to look at the in-fisherman and knew exactly who AL and BABE was and fishing facts spence petros. I met a young man recently who is 17 and has that exact same look in his eyes that we had. Remember how you used to wait for the walleye insider to come in so you could get the stories. Things like how the mcclelland and probst stories used to make you laugh and "Feel Good" hill billies that borrow money to get home, sleeping in boats, do what ever just to fish. Not a gloom and doom story, a drive, a passion, a want.
Close your eyes and remember something that used to make your mouth water about tourney fishing. Remember the burn in your belly that drove you to get up at 3 in the morning just to tie spinners in january and the feel you get when a full moon starts creeping in. Remember my friends the little girls speech in the movie "Field of dreams" about how people will come, because it makes them feel good. Dont back down, but back up.
I want to hear what used to "Turn you on", pumping that blood. That is the things we need to get back to doing.
Printing a list of players 15 days in advance will help this along greatly. |
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| You are correct when you say I think large...I can see where we are not on the same page and my track line has been different from yours.
One small thing that can be done at a low cost (and forgive me if it is already being done) is great eye appealing posters. If you have a field with 50 fishermen it would cost roughly $2 per fisherman to have 100 posters that feature not only the event but each individual fisherman. I am not talking posters that are free from Miller or somewhere. The graphic can be done at no cost and the posters can flood an area 2 weeks before the event. Placement needs to be thought out and the best places seem to be laundry mats and grocery stores. People are always looking for things to do.
Pick a local establishment where all the fishermen will be at after the event has closed for the day (tavern, etc) those places have access to free advertisement through their distributors and can also have posters made up welcoming the fishermen to the establishment and inviting the public to come and mingle. I hope this is already being done.
Use Craig's list to help get the word out about the event, it is free and it works.
At the end of the day offer kids a ride in your power machines...that in itself will draw an interest.
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| I may not know as much as you real fisherman but.... here are some perspectives from the fan base. After meeting redneck tech and talking about the fishing in the area and how to encourage it he pointed us to the fishing show in Madison. I then encouraged a bunch of local families to go and check out the fishing show .I personally went to meet one of the pros that is coming to Montello so my grandson could get an autograph hopefully. Unfortunately I was to late and missed his talk. So we roamed to show and felt very uncomfortable like this was for REAL fisherman not just us ordinary little lake fisherman. The others came back with pretty much the same idea. It is ashame because fishing is a wonderful family activity as well as can get the kids off the couch and back outside. I also think if during your tournaments there was something on shore to see, maybe a kids lesson, maybe some food vendors and booths that include fishing items as well as other things to get the ladies there. As the daughter of a fisherman I enjoyed the hours in the boat and fishing , but not everyone wants to sit and wait to see you come back in. Find a way to get the womesn there! The key, husbands get to go because the wife will be entertained. There are also many, many kids out there who have no way to experience fishing, no Dad, or Grandpa around and Mom hasnt a clue, reach the kids, be in the smaller communities and grow a new fan base. Kids are the answer, I also think the trading cards is great idea. A great way to put a face with a name. We have all been checking out the posters up for Moose Fest and will be able to find which Pro is which from their faces on the Poster. Who ever thought that up was a genius. I have no idea who kasey kahnes is but why would nayone follow him if not for Nascar? I also want to that the Pros who are coming out to Moose fest what a great way to make yourselves seem approachable. You know the old saying if Momma aint happy nobodys happy. Think of MOM and then the kids and it all falls into place, whole families come unless your idea really is to just attract old, single fisherman. Then when they die , you have none! |
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| fishing Grandma - 3/27/2010 4:22 PM
I may not know as much as you real fisherman but.... here are some perspectives from the fan base. After meeting redneck tech and talking about the fishing in the area and how to encourage it he pointed us to the fishing show in Madison. I then encouraged a bunch of local families to go and check out the fishing show .I personally went to meet one of the pros that is coming to Montello so my grandson could get an autograph hopefully. Unfortunately I was to late and missed his talk. So we roamed to show and felt very uncomfortable like this was for REAL fisherman not just us ordinary little lake fisherman. The others came back with pretty much the same idea. It is ashame because fishing is a wonderful family activity as well as can get the kids off the couch and back outside. I also think if during your tournaments there was something on shore to see, maybe a kids lesson, maybe some food vendors and booths that include fishing items as well as other things to get the ladies there. As the daughter of a fisherman I enjoyed the hours in the boat and fishing , but not everyone wants to sit and wait to see you come back in. Find a way to get the womesn there! The key, husbands get to go because the wife will be entertained. There are also many, many kids out there who have no way to experience fishing, no Dad, or Grandpa around and Mom hasnt a clue, reach the kids, be in the smaller communities and grow a new fan base. Kids are the answer, I also think the trading cards is great idea. A great way to put a face with a name. We have all been checking out the posters up for Moose Fest and will be able to find which Pro is which from their faces on the Poster. Who ever thought that up was a genius. I have no idea who kasey kahnes is but why would nayone follow him if not for Nascar? I also want to that the Pros who are coming out to Moose fest what a great way to make yourselves seem approachable. You know the old saying if Momma aint happy nobodys happy. Think of MOM and then the kids and it all falls into place, whole families come unless your idea really is to just attract old, single fisherman. Then when they die , you have none!
enter a great post post:
the old and and die lol dont fall on deaf ears that would be exactly what we are talkind about.
tell us stories.
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| OK Stacker I too have been thinking bigger for the clientle here on WF. The little things you are talking about take time and money from these guys and as many of you know here that is hard to come by when they have invested so heavily already.
Ya know what gets my Blood boiling Denny.....Its the thought of seeing the light of day the steam rolling off the water, the sound of a loon, geese and birds, seeing a wild animal on the shoreline and fishing in peace and quiet.
Those days are far and few between and so appreciated when they come for so MANY anglers. This is obviously quite difficult to fit into your tournamnet model but add in the educational opportunities tournament angling brings and has brought me, then this is what gets my blood boiling........
A 5 hour voyage to Depere last night recap: 20 minute line to launch boat, helping new people to the area on where to fish, showing some new fisherman how to jig for walleyes as you were fishing so close too each other you could wisper those secrets. Bait selection, zig zaging through 300 boats watching people from all over the world fish a great body of water, fine tuning their techniques, having geese and ducks land within 10 feet of the boat. Seeing the joy on my passengers face as they catch walleye after walleye. Then watching the expression on my sons face as he grabs for the video camera as I hook into a huge fish with a 6' Gloomis and a high quality Scheels Reel spooled with 8# power pro (which I never would have bought without the guidance of some tourney anglers years ago, advertising plug)
Then the expression again on his face as I hand him the rod 30 minutes later as I am going to have to be the one to land this fish by hand, we don't believe in nets! For another 20 minutes he plays it like a pro with what he has learned from many guys we have admired for so long. After three attempts she is in the boat for a quick pic and others are gathering around to get a look at the biggest fish they ever saw. 52.5x25.5
Maybe I was pushing too far ahead. and If you want something plain and simple its EDUCATION! Do your best at it, perfect your technique, teach the kids, listen to people and for gods sake keep your nose pointed on the ground and your head out of the clouds!
Good Luck
Tyee
PS. If anyone knows this girls name please let me know, I'd like to get to know her again sometime later in the year!
Edited by tyee 3/28/2010 8:04 AM
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| OK so I can't stay away as I feel this is our tournament fishing and is to important, so we need to talk about it. Fishing Granma, I am one of those guys whose face is in the tee shirt for moose fest and would feel privelaged to sign each and everyones keep sake that I can. I really wanted to fish the MWS that weekend but felt this is a chance for me to give to the sport I love and try to help promote it. Also I am looking forward to just getting out there and spending some time with the kids. I have been trying to push for a mini tournament with the kids the day before all aim events. It would be no different than a field trip to a museum or any other place of interest, and I hope my suggestion doesnt go to the wayside. It wouldnt hurt us to give this little time to the local community and its kids...I know everyone would enjoy it kinda like the boat ride suggestion... John Schneider |
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| John, sounds great! lots of good you are doing? I question though the mini tourney for kids, Isn't it enough just to take them for a boat ride in a rig they may never even get to go in in their lifetime, the ability to ask you a few questions or tell you about the big one they once caught, their stories are so very interesting. That alone is priceless, talk to them educate them, a tourney changes the lesson don't you think?
Ask yourself why are you really there? Is it only the money or do you have the mentoring ability? You are a brand for your sponsors, you need to EARN admiration, respect, trust and fellowship, that does not come from having the biggest basket at the end of the day!
A couple of bucks for t-shirts and posters are great, call the local community media, tv, radio, publications, let them know you are in town, get interviews, get on the air get in the publications, go to local schools talk to the chambers yourself get events scheduled around your products, Host a seminar find that niche you need to have people WANT to come see YOU.
Good Luck
Tyee
Edited by tyee 3/28/2010 11:37 AM
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| I will admit I am a little dazed that thinking big is not desirable. I was not thinking of getting 50,000 screaming fans to attend but rather getting 10,000 people to come to the activities, spend money and help off set the cost or even financially support the tournament...they do not have to be screaming, raging fans to do that, just consumers.
Pick a tournament and have nice posters made up with the fisherman's pictures (I will do that for you if you like, just pay the bill) distribute them two weeks before the tournament (I will do that if you like) get a small food vendor (I will help arrange that if you like) and possibly some kids activities on shore (I will talk to the contacts I have if you like) and then build off of that. It will cost about $100 out of pocket and will generate a very small profit.
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| I am glad to here jst fish is coming out. Kids have been talking and unlike years ago not every kid learns to fish from his Dad. Education is a must. I was hoping that during Moose Fest there might be someone or somepeople on land to show those no old enough or maybe even to old some of the tricks of the trade. I am also puzzled that Most of you seem nice but I just don't understand attacking a person that has been getting your faces and fishing out in the public more than his own. - I can asure you I knew none of your names of faces before the posters were hung all over. Even some of the Dads were either city kids or had noone to teach them to fish, now they bring Jr. and snap....you have 2 new fisherman , maybe even Mom. I am picturing many Dads who know the Pros by name showing up to shake hands or just spot a real Pro
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| I forgot to say hi to you fishing Gramma. Glad to hear the community is excited about the up coming event. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Every one should know my take, by now, on how to grow this sport in regard to fan base. So I won't go there--AGAIN! But I will say this......
ANY sports marketing company, related to ANY major league sport or major league athlete, would hire Mr. Krueger(AKA RNT) before they'd hire the likes of Stacker or ANY of the people involved with marketing the past 25 years of professional competitive angling--for ANY species at every level!
RNT gets it. 'nuff said..... The rest? Don't have a clue! |
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| Some good ideas and different perspectives expressed, just hope it was not all just academic and just goes to waste. Otherwise it’s going to be hard convincing others to help push an apple cart with square wheels up hill. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Before we decide to redesign the wheels on any cart, I strongly suggest you all watch one Bass Masters Elite event on ESPN. This model CLEARLY works and works well; ask any of the folks who attend both Walleye and B.A.S.S. events as part of the job about their perspective.
Please save your comments about this suggestion until you see an entire show shot at an Elite. |
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| Tyee, the kids would get that hands on during that mini tournament, and all fish species would count. Its not like we would have to run 40 miles to catch fish, we would go a little ways and hopefully they would start catching fish. I think they would enjoy the excitement of weigh in and being up in on that stage in front of family and friends. Which I might add would be there to see them, see were this is going? All it requires is a little planning and time from us as fisherman... I think the poster idea is a very good one and would definetly help. Alot of the events have food and kids events already, but I do believe they help. Heck it wouldn't even hurt to have a beer tent, the local fire dept. or who ever could put on the food, soda, and beer. But I really agree with the hands on around the fans viewing the weigh in, and listing on a poster and on the web the different fisherman participating in the event. Word of mouth is also a big part of building a business, and in order to do that you need to give the people what they want. John Schneider |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Here's an interesting idea to throw into the mix. http://www.scottsteilfishing.com/
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Location: Berlin | I can tell you all the hard work WalleyeFirst put into covering the Spring Valley event helped to grow the fan base.
Talking about this and coming up with ideas is great but lets not forget to thank those that are actually out there making it happen. |
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| One final suggestion...on another thread there was the point that in the pictures one cannot tell who is who at the tournaments just by looking unless you know what the person looks like. Why not utilize your NPAA numbers (or come up with a different number system)....have the number clearly shown on the boat and apparel so one can easily identify who is who. People will start associating the fishermen with their number. |
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| Awesome coverage Steve and TJ. Thanks and it is great to have you covering the MWC. Let me know if you need anything ! Thanks, Dan Palmer MWC Tournament Director |
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Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Steve Fellegy - 3/28/2010 9:41 PM
Every one should know my take, by now, on how to grow this sport in regard to fan base. So I won't go there--AGAIN! But I will say this......
ANY sports marketing company, related to ANY major league sport or major league athlete, would hire Mr. Krueger(AKA RNT) before they'd hire the likes of Stacker or ANY of the people involved with marketing the past 25 years of professional competitive angling--for ANY species at every level!
RNT gets it. 'nuff said..... The rest? Don't have a clue!
hahahahahahaha Steve, got a chip on your shoulder?
I started this thread asking for a list of fisherman before noon of the first day of a event. It has morphed into a "How good I am at marketing the sport". This was not about the sport, it was about knowing the fisherman.
Steve, I would not hire RNT to market anything because he is leaning towards Charity events and if I was trying to make money I am not so sure he could balance such an event with money coming in and going out. Charity events are fine, but the circuits you have fished all these years Mr. Fellegy were not for charity. |
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| Ditto what Rich & Dan said. Great job with the MWC coverage WalleyeFirst! See you guys at Winnebago. |
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Location: Rhinelander | 'One final suggestion...on another thread there was the point that in the pictures one cannot tell who is who at the tournaments just by looking unless you know what the person looks like. Why not utilize your NPAA numbers (or come up with a different number system)....have the number clearly shown on the boat and apparel so one can easily identify who is who. People will start associating the fishermen with their number.'
First, your idea won't work well for ALL the anglers in the MWC, the subject of current coverage. Too many teams that fish only one event, and too many who really don't care as much about all the hoopla because they are NOT 'Pros' and don't want to be, they just want to fish competitively and have a good time. best way to identify any angler is a name on the front of every garment, large enough to read in a stage image, as the pro's name IS the product. A name on the motor, too. If it's a team and that's the intended brand, both names on EVERY outer garment worn. Anyone ever heard of Parsons and Kavajecz? They haven't been an MWC team for a very long time, and now actually compete against one another on the water. But that's where they got their start, and they were and are very good at on branding and creating awareness of same. Ya gotta spend money to make money in this gig, and that's not going to change much for a long time.
Many of the NPAA Pros do just what you suggest. The NPAA is also changing rapidly and is headed, thanks to Cody, Pat, and many other folks recent hard work, in a very positive direction. RNT, seriously, next time an Elite event is on ESPN Sunday morning, watch the program. MANY of the things suggested here are done at those events, and the crowds number in the thousands during the day when the anglers are out on the water. Pro Angler sheets and cards handed out for future autographs, promotions at the grass roots level, and more....take a look and I bet you will agree those folks know how to do this. That leads to how the Walleye industry can use some or all of that model now and into the future, and if the Walleye industry is able to in the first place due to aforementioned limitations, not the least of which is the absence of ESPN as an owner.
Also, keep in mind, your current project is a single event in a single timeframe...not a circuit covering 4 states over 5 months with the venue changing yearly while asking contestants to pay $600 to a couple thousand to compete traveling sometimes a thousand miles in the process and dealing with ALL the complex relationships in the industry that drive the tournament business. Tournaments, especially the National trails, are currently endemic based, with non endemics finding their way into the promotional fold, and are, whether anyone likes it or not, in play 100% to promote the products and services those endemics and non endemic promotional partners build....and sell. No Pro gets a sponsor because the sponsor wants them to take a kid fishing, unfortunately. Sure, do that, and someday that kid will be an adult buying those products, but the stock holders want dividends NOW. A process, not an event.
That sponsor wants product sold, end of story. What we are discussing here are methods to make it look like something else to the fans, and I'm sorry, they just are not that gullible. Sure, there's LOTS of ways to do this better, Steve F has a bunch of them...all outside the current box and worth listening to. But we can't lose touch with what drives the ability of the Tournament organizers to put an event on the water in the first place and the pros ability to afford to play this game, and it ain't selling a booth for $175. In the case of FLW and Bass Masters, we are talking sponsorships to the event organizers in the MILLIONS of dollars by those endemics in an effort to effectively market their products. The Pros USE those products, and there's no one on the planet better equipped to talk about, show them in extreme use, and in short, promote those products. it's the event organizer's job to make sure the public sees all this. Big money comes from big exposure, and that takes decades of successful hard work by all and strong relationships from every vantage point.
My take? I think the old model has been broken for a couple years. I think the paradigm shift in play and what's coming over the next couple years effecting the Sport for the next couple decades will eventually be the best thing that's ever happened to Pro Walleye angling, and all of us had better pay attention and keep up. Most of us will, I bet.
It's the absolutely critical need to apply equity to the promotional value of each and every pro, each and every event organization, and each and every venue, and it's complicated beyond a simple paragraph or two here. AIM is on track, but is hamstrung to a point by the old model and the fact the new one doesn't yet exist. I personally feel they are moving as quickly as is possible towards that new paradigm, but it's a PROCESS....not an event.
Apples---Oranges. Seriously, apples/oranges...no matter what parallels you attempt to create. Here's your deal:
www.Pattibears.com
www.Greatamericanmoosehunt.com
www.greatmoosefestival.com
www.newmontellogroup.blogspot.com
http://newmontellogroup.blogspot.com/2010/02/updates-on-moose-fest....
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/5322471/WI/montello/Great-American-...
Here's the FLW, MWC, and AIM.
http://www.aimfishing.com
http://www.flwoutdoors.com/walleyefishing
http://www.masterswalleyecircuit.com/
Here's ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/index
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/tournaments/elite/index
I am certainly not saying your ideas at least in part don't have merit, they do. But one cannot pretend the events are parallel in the simplest manner, except for the pros taking a few kids fishing...which is a great idea to promote your event and to promote fishing in general and professional angling to a degree.
I'm not a bit surprised to see John and the others listed involved. Look at what the NPAA does at each AIM and at past FLW's...every event. Yep, every one. Those clinics are cool, and draw up to a couple hundred kids. I'm sure of that because we point cameras at the events so folks know they happened and are looking forward to the next event and the next NPAA Kids Clinic. No one is selling a damned thing at those NPAA clinics except good will and fishing talk...for free.
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| There are very stark differences in the approach and the chips will fall where they may. |
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