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| Jump to page : 1 2 3 4 5 Now viewing page 3 [25 messages per page] Walleye Fishing -> General Discussion -> Building on Stacker's Comments about Names |
| Message Subject: Building on Stacker's Comments about Names | |||
Shep |
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Member Posts: 3899 | I've been sitting back on this one, and getting a feel for how some of you feel on Pro accessability. The accessabilty of the angling Pro's is second only to NASCAR and Local race tracks. And NASCAR is becoming more like the other sports, because of the demand on the racer's time. Show up at a launch in the AM during the prefish period, and not only will you get some face time with the pro's, you just might be invited to prefish with them. Attend the weigh in, and go to the exit side of the stage. You'll have access to the anglers, and if you ask them to come over to talk, they generally will. Most of the Pro's on tour are great guys, and willing to talk to you. There are very few who won't. Now I'm not saying you can have their undivided attention for more than a minute or two, but heck, what do you expect. NO other sport, other than racing, gives you this contact. Not Baseball, Football, Hockey. Basketball, you might get some face time, but it may be at the end of a players fist! As for the PWT school. I have to agree, it is not promoted locally. In fact, I listen to sports radio most of the time in the truck. I never heard a peep about the PWT being in Winneconne, much less an adveretising for the PWT school. I think the tours ought to spend some time on the local radio and TV shows, promoting their events. Sonny would be great on the radio, as would Jim Kalkofen.SOme of the local Pro's would get some great exposure if they hit up the local TV stations, and some of the top name Pro's could do a lot in the way of promoting both the events, and themselves. I have a couple ideas to get more fan interaction from the pro's. One of them will be ready for the LBDN FLW Tour event. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | The Pros are not paid by the Circuits to fish, Tyee, they PAY TO FISH. This isn't Pro football where the team members are paid millions and are under contract with a team and community. Hosting communities rarely if ever pay anything to the Circuits. Usually, it's services in kind ( comp hotel rooms and meal vouchers) facilities, volunteers, and not alot more; sometimes even less. No cash cow there to milk, I'm afraid. The Tournament Director makes so much he/she should have to do.....what? It's the PR folks who have the responsibility to 'get the word out' and most times they do a pretty fair job with the limited resources willing to publish events like Meet the Pro nights. Believe me, the local media is given every opportunity to attend and is very much invited to write the story on the event. In most communities, they do, and some even make the event front page stuff, I have shot a few Newspaper Cover copies and posted them. However, the Press Room at the PWT Championship was HEAVILY advertised, the top 6 anglers were there to interview every night during the event, and guess who was there to take interviews? WalleyeFIRST. The anglers were there, The PWT was there, the Media was very aware they were there, yet other than OutdoorsFIRST---the 'media' didn't show. They apparently felt they already HAD their story from the weigh ins, and headed out to get them on the air and in print. Radio and TV advertising is out; too expensive to try to draw a few fans in, IMHO. It's up to US as fans to demand more coverage, the media reacts to demand. Local sports programming does mention each event regularly, one simply has to listen to that station, most times on local AM band. Other than press releases which are plentiful before, during, and after an event, keep in mind the MEDIA decides what is posted, printed, and aired. The PR folks from the Circuits provide an open and welcoming platform, and the Media does what it will with the information provided. Again, IMHO, the future of Walleye Tournament coverage is to the large degree right here on the web. If it's done well and meets the expectations of the fan base, as the old adage goes, they will come. OutdoorsFIRST will do a better job in the future publicizing the additional events surrounding the Tournaments. I spoke with theFLW's Sonny Reynolds at length today. He does feel there is opportunity out there for more PR for the Pros AND the Co Anglers. As the sport grows, which is the goal of FLW Walleye, more and better coverage will result. I think he's correct, but that said, we (OutdoorsFIRST) can do a better job NOW getting what you would like to see published up on WalleyeFIRST. Great discussion! | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Radio and TV advertising is out; too expensive to try to draw a few fans in, IMHO. It's up to US as fans to demand more coverage, the media reacts to demand. Local sports programming does mention each event regularly, one simply has to listen to that station, most times on local AM band. And this paragraph summs up the original posters questions. What can be done to increase the fan base? Do you notice the statement, the media reacts to demand? That is one of the most important statements in all the writtings in this thread. When it comes to the schools, that is a oportunity to promote circuit fishing and it cost nothing. The cost factors of the changes we speak of are nominal at best. Before and during is when you can take advatage the most, post tournament, well, its over and fans will be looking for the next venue. And the internet will be the primary source of communication, no doubt. Many of us know woodeye at critters. If the school would have been promaoted that everyone and anyone can attend it would have been a wall to wall attendance and woodeye would have had a even better day at the rgister. It would not cost the pwt anything to have a school there, his beer sales would have evened that bill out. Understand? no cost factor. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Not sure if the PWT would host a School where there are alcohol sales, but that IS just a guess. When the fan base puts the local TV station on notice by attending the event in the thousands, the TV station will be there to cover it. When it's tens of thousands, EVERYONE will cover it. When it's special interest from the folks Tyee mentions, you can expect the coverage now in place IMHO. I like your lines of questioning though (Jayman and Stacker, tyee and Meckid, et al), how DO we, as a media source, increase the number of 'fans' watching the events? How can the Circuits increase the on site fan base? The largest attendance of any walleye event on the planet is the Mercury Marine National Walleye Tournament and Walleye Weekend. Now THERE is a crowd....could anything of that scale be pulled off without the full cooperation, investment, and involvement of the host community? How? Keep in perspective; those reading this are ALREADY fans, or they would not be here. What we are really discussing, I think, is growing the sport, right? That's a process of growing sponsorship and generating the base to grow from. Major forward movement has been made on that front the last couple years, with a fairly bright future coming. Actually this was the original question: "Another thing that would improve upon information surrounding various circuits would be the release of the full results following the event. Many circuits do not provide complete results information on the tournaments. Missing are either first names, # of fish caught, or other data generally important to those who follow walleye fishing, and some only provide placing of the top three names or so teams, with no weights whatsoever. Thoughts?" The conversation morphed to where it is now from there, which is great! | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Well, the school was at critters according to the pwt website, which is also the home of woodeyes bar and grill. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Answers that one, I guess! How could that event have been better promoted? Where would promotion have to be placed to draw the necessary attention you are looking for? Who should do that, PWT or the host? Both? When, and how? | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Easy answer, The PWT Needs to say this" PWT school, Tuesday the 24th from 4 to 530 at critters,OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, PUBLIC WELCOME!! They never invited the PUBLIC!! And if they did, where is it stated. That is the simple stuff I speak of Steve. Everyone is over thinking this. Marketing 101, K.I.S.S. keep it simple stupid. I spelled it for everyone else, I know you know that steve. The fan base will steadily increase if some very basic things are put out there that are missing. | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | I had heard of the PWT school, but I was under the impression it was a private deal for the co's. A flyer at a handful of baitshops or a press release on a website or two would have drawn A LOT of people IMHO. | ||
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| Shep |
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Member Posts: 3899 | I never mentioned advertising. I did say they need to get on local radio and TV shows and promote the tourney, and any activities associated with the tourney. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | Guys, the reason I'm asking for clarification is I am talking to the tournament promoters about this thread and the concepts expressed. Shep, radio is good, are there specific ideas about programming or times? I'll find out about the PWT school this week. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | The PWT school is open to anyone that would like to attend or in other words, it's been open to the public. I agree that it hasn't always been promoted well. But I do think it depends on if they get the local publicity from the local news stations, radio stations and the newspapers. I know Mr. Kalkofen works hard at trying to get the word out to the radio stations and any other news media he can. However, I do think a majority of getting the word out about the school is partly up to the town to get the word out. The PWT comes in anywhere from 5 to 7 days ahead of the tournament. In my opinion, you can't always depend on getting great turnouts when things aren't promoted well in advance. I don't know how the PWT could inform more people about the school prior to them arriving to the town. I think if that town wants to attract more people, they need to get the information and the people in the town need to spread the word. I guess in my opinion, it's kinda hard to promote the school when the PWT is out of Brainard, MN. Yes, they could promote it more on the website, through the magazines but I don't think that's getting the word across to as many people as possible. Just my thoughts. Edited by Merckid 5/7/2007 9:47 AM | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | All I want to know is where on the PWT site did you find the statement that the school was open to the public. I really would have went and let others know as well. The town did not have to promote, all that needed to be done was to state that the public is welcome to the schools. | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Merckid - PWT sends out flyer to baitshops in hopes of attracting contestants. They could add a couple of words to those flyers and that would probably be enough. After that, even a simple press release to sites like this one would be more than enough to get something like the PWT school off and running strong. Edited by Brad B 5/7/2007 10:20 AM | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Now I didn't say it said on there site that is was open, I guess for me, I would have seen it that way before working for them that it was open. If you look at the Winneconne schedule that I linked to earlier, that schedule on there, the events during the week kinda explained for the most part who and what they were for. For example, PWT rookie meeting, in my opinion that would mean just a meeting for the rookies that were fishing only, no one else. Another example, Mercury Pro Staff get together, meaning just the guys on the pro staff would be there. I guess the way I would read that, it would mean that it is open to the public. But I can see where your coming from, and saying that how do you know it's open or not to the public? From what I get from that flyer on there website, if it's stated who it's for, then I would suspect it's not open to the public, but it isn't, I would take it as open to the public. My question is, why woudn't it be? They try to put this school on somewhere where they can accomodate quite a few people, not just a handful. I can recall at a couple places last season like Devils Lake for example, they had this in an auditorium, with literally a couple hundred chairs. So plenty of room for the public. But I could be wrong on it being open to the public, but I know I got a lot of questions from the public about this school at the events. I personally have never heard of it not being open to the public. I think the biggest drawback is the timing of the school. It takes place at 4:30 and goes to 5:30, that is the downfall to it. Its on a Tuesday, and that's right at the time many people are just getting out of work. That is why I believe turnout isn't always the best. | ||
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| eyekatcher |
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Member Posts: 67 | The PWT School was put as part of the itinerary for the Pre-rules meeting. In the case this year they had 3 pros who did share some of their tactics how ever limited IE: slip bobber rigs, tuning lures, and a bit on planer board usage. But most of the emphasis was put on the Co-angler/Pro relataionship what to expect, how to act, netting fish, ect. As far as advertising it was not advertised as open to the public, it was not mandatory for the Cos either but was a good oppertunity to learn a few things from the Pros, they had about an hour to talk about things not really sure how many people would of drove to have 40 minutes to an hour presentation on a lot things most of you know already. Just a thought, over all I was happy again with the way the event was handled Jim and the PWT staff did a great job once again. | ||
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| TJ DeVoe |
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Member Posts: 1040 Location: Stevens Point, WI | Brad B., I totally agree with you about getting a press release out to these sites such as WalleyeFirst. But ask Mr. Worrall about things like that, it's really easier said than done. But I think both the PWT and FLW work great with Mr.Worrall and they try to get the information to him but let me ask you this. If you were looking for information about something, wouldn't you go to the resource that would directly have the information? I understand if you don't know about the information in the first place, then it makes it kind of hard. But honestly, I don't know what they would say other than PWT school is here and with these pros. I don't even know if the PWT is always aware of what they will be talking about at a certain event. If I am correct on this, it's kinda up to the guys who are putting on the school from my understanding. All I know is that the PWT asks these guys if they could help out and they usually do. You don't see the tournament organizations posting on here do you? Why on earth would they want to post something on here when they have websites where it's displayed? I understand the promoting aspect but they also pay money to have a website also. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Here's what I found at PWT.com http://www.pwt.com/ It's obviously not done as easy as said. Yes, TJ, you know exactly where to look. That's great, but in general most don't. Let's not assume the web is the easiest place to find this info, well versed individuals can find what they are looking for. Fans "in the know" can find what they are looking for. How do new fans find what they are looking for? PWT school aside, The school is a small example of what I believe the main point was, "Meet the pro's". I don't see why there can't be some kind of a Meet the Pro's night the weekend before a major tourney starts. I saw many PWT players on the water 10days prior to the Winneconne event. So they are in town, the logistics I don't believe would be a nightmare. Perhaps some kind of a fish fry, maybe even walleye, or a dinner friday or saturday night before a major tourney. Not every pro has to be there, but enough that are accessible to the public, maybe a few get up and talk to the whole crowd. I can't see how this would not be in the best interest of the tournament circuit and the Pro's themsleves. The Pro's get the opportunity to promote themselves and their sponsor's. The circuit gets to promote itself, it's sponsor's and develop fan base. This is a simple idea. It just takes some planning, the costs associated with it are a wash. Now there, please everyone, fire away and tell me how "impossible" this is. Edited by Jayman 5/7/2007 10:59 AM | ||
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| shink |
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Member Posts: 201 Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Being someone that fishes the PWT, I was under the impression that the school was for the co-anglers fishing the event. If it is open to the general public, I think they should try to do some promoting to get people into the school. Heck Steve, even a post on this website would bring people in. At least in Winneconne. I think it should be a collaborated effort between the PWT, and the hosting community to promote the school, if they are trying to get more people at the event. How often can you get to see a seminar with 3 touring pro's for free, even if it is condensed? | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | This is impossible Jayman. Not impossible like the chances of me winning the lottery, IMPOSSIBLE like the chances Rosie O'Donnell and Donald Trump getting married. Impossible like catching a BIG fish on a harness after your partner says "I sure wish that thing would hurry up and bite you off so we'd know what it is" kind of impossible.... hahaha Merc - Everything is easier said than done. But in the realm of things, this wouldn't really be that difficult. Lots of aspiring Pro's are looking for face time. Many established ones would help if they could be free to work some discussion of their sponsors into the event. And for something like this were the framework is already established, were only talking about a minuscule amount of effort. The only question is does the PWT want to to this? After that, it very easy to do. Edited by Brad B 5/7/2007 11:14 AM | ||
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| Shep |
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Member Posts: 3899 | sworrall - 5/7/2007 9:10 AM Guys, the reason I'm asking for clarification is I am talking to the tournament promoters about this thread and the concepts expressed. Shep, radio is good, are there specific ideas about programming or times? I'll find out about the PWT school this week. Steve, I will ask a couple guys I know in the biness for some ideas. I think Axl may have some valuable insight, as he has a spot on here in Green Bay. I'll talk with him this week as well. | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | My impression is that the PWT School is held mainly for the Co Anglers. The Circuits DO host 'meet the pro' events from time to time. Less athan 50 is the average attendance, even at the Championships where the events are very very well advertised. If a member of the public sees the promotion on the PWT site or here, they are probably already aware of the PWT, right? The idea is building a larger fan base. Local events like PWT or FLW 'schools' tied to the Tournament won't be overly effective, IMHO. Here's why: Those who look for this type of promotion are already watching the events. The events are usually during a weeknight. Attendance will be almost exclusively local. Weigh ins are during the week for PWT, and other than the Super Pro, are pretty much completed by the time most of us get out of work. The FLW final day is on Saturday, and yet despite lots of local, web, and other media promotion, there might have been a couple hundred plus at the final yesterday to watch Jason get a $100,000.00 check. The FLW makes no secret the weigh ins are designed for TV, but they accommodate the public very well. All suggestions that small promotions might be a good idea accepted, the net gain of NEW walleye tournament fans will be very small, wouldn't you agree? Both PWT and FLW air Television shows featuring every event. Both PWT and FLW send press releases out to the general media frequently. Both PWT and FLW strongly encourage local and statewide media to attend, promote, film, write articles, etc. Few do. Why? Because this isn't a BIG story for most media, it's basically a side bar or a 15 second sound bite during the sports at 10 PM. Yes, WE care, but the larger portion of the general public....... Both PWT and FLW have added little festivals to some of the events to try to draw families and kids. The WEIGH INS are designed to be the premier events. The crowd MEETS THE PROS through the MC, both Jim and Kevin do a great job. Yes, some of the Pros stay on and mingle, but again, were talking a REALLY BIG crowd that might be 2500 at a Championship and a few hundred at a qualifier. So....I'm betting that PWT and FLW are looking to the TV programs, their magazine, and their website to promote the events to the people who can't attend, most of whom are working during the majority of the event. OutdoorsFIRST takes things a step further. We provide our user base with a realistic ranking system for the Pros, up to date and we hope interesting coverage during the events including video, audio, image gallery, interactive Leader Board, promotions like the Iron Man, press release publication, and more. If we are one of the premier sources for information on event day, then it's obviously good for US to draw in more fans. My VERY humble opinion is: We need to grow the sport of Walleye Angling/Fishing/Boating in general, and that is a tough project. Angler's Legacy and http://www.takemefishing.org are on the right track. In Fish and the PWT need to continually draw more and bigger sponsors into the sport to support the tremendous expense of actually REACHING a target market out there. Both have done a fine job of that. The Pros need to involve their sponsors more in reaching out to the public. Pat Nue did just that with Toyota Trucks, and that program WILL assist them in becoming a player in the Walleye Boat tow vehicle market. Ranger/Evinrude does 'demo days' at all the events, involving Pros who stay over after missing the cut and local dealers. Lowrance is on display and open to the public's questions thanks in large part to Ron Hunter. Stowmaster/E-cell is there. Kwik Pfyt, Berkely, Lund Boats, G3 Boats, Toyota Trucks, Chevy Trucks, and more have representatives, and some have complete product displays, set up at each event. The PWT has a sport show at the Championship. This needs to continue growing. And, most importantly, the Pros need USE the media to build a reputation and a fan base. Why is it almost every walleye angler out there knows exactly what Keith Kavajecz looks like? Still, creating a walleye competition 'fan' out of a fellow who just likes to walleye fish is a difficult project. Grass roots local promotion is assisted tremendously if the local Chamber, Business association, Media, etc. involve themselves. The Dakotas have fewer folks living in state than most other sites, yet draw much larger crowds. Why? Local PR involvement. We need to step up coverage here, we are doing everything we can to do just that. I listen to both circuit's execs speak to what they have accomplished and are trying to accomplish, and can promise everyone here they are very aware the fan base needs to grow. Both circuits are working within their own media sources ( that don't take rocket science to figure out) and with their sponsors to do just that, and graciously allow OutdoorsFIRST and other media sources access behind the scenes. More to this in the big picture, but ALL of it ties together to grow the sport. And, it's working, or this discussion wouldn't be underway! | ||
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| sworrall |
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Location: Rhinelander | I just listened to a telephone voice mail message from the Outdoor Channel, featuring an audio clip from In Fisherman TV. Pretty cool stuff, but really LONGGGGG. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | sworrall - 5/7/2007 11:51 AM My VERY humble opinion is: We need to grow the sport of Walleye Angling/Fishing/Boating in general, and that is a tough project. Angler's Legacy and http://www.takemefishing.org are on the right track. In Fish and the PWT need to continually draw more and bigger sponsors into the sport to support the tremendous expense of actually REACHING a target market out there. Both have done a fine job of that. The Pros need to involve their sponsors more in reaching out to the public. Pat Nue did just that with Toyota Trucks, and that program WILL assist them in becoming a player in the Walleye Boat tow vehicle market. Ranger/Evinrude does 'demo days' at all the events, involving Pros who stay over after missing the cut and local dealers. Lowrance is on display and open to the public's questions thanks in large part to Ron Hunter. Stowmaster/E-cell is there. Kwik Pfyt, Berkely, Lund Boats, G3 Boats, Toyota Trucks, Chevy Trucks, and more have representatives, and some have complete product displays, set up at each event. The PWT has a sport show at the Championship. This needs to continue growing. And, most importantly, the Pros need USE the media to build a reputation and a fan base. Why is it almost every walleye angler out there knows exactly what Keith Kavajecz looks like? Still, creating a walleye competition 'fan' out of a fellow who just likes to walleye fish is a difficult project. Grass roots local promotion is assisted tremendously if the local Chamber, Business association, Media, etc. involve themselves. The Dakotas have fewer folks living in state than most other sites, yet draw much larger crowds. Why? Local PR involvement. We need to step up coverage here, we are doing everything we can to do just that. I listen to both circuit's execs speak to what they have accomplished and are trying to accomplish, and can promise everyone here they are very aware the fan base needs to grow. Both circuits are working within their own media sources ( that don't take rocket science to figure out) and with their sponsors to do just that, and graciously allow OutdoorsFIRST and other media sources access behind the scenes. More to this in the big picture, but ALL of it ties together to grow the sport. And, it's working, or this discussion wouldn't be underway! The one question I have with this assessment of what has happened and what is happening and whats going to happen, is this. Steves Quote: Still, creating a walleye competition 'fan' out of a fellow who just likes to walleye fish is a difficult project. Two schools of thought regarding this statement. The first would be, "if you are not transforming current fisherman to fans, then who is it that you will target to increase the fan base?" I live in weyauwega and in 2006 there was guys lining the river banks from fremont on up, watching the "pro's" come up. The locals went fishing everyday so they could fish amongst the pro's. They are not fans of the sport, they are fisherman, the weekenders of sorts who thought it very interesting to watch this bunch of very nice guys fish, but walked away when it was done not knowing anymore than that about the sport. Here is where the PWT could have had people at gills landing talking to the 100 or so guys who were there at 7 am watching them pass. I know these local guys, some were bass fisherman, crappie fisherman, catfisherman. But all in all they are fisherman. The 2nd thing is, we were talking about the changes that could take place to better the experience for the current fan base. This would be some simple house keeping that should take place before the next growth in the fan base occurs. Mr. Kalkofen, you, at one time had a vision. Did it come complete? Or is there pieces still not yet fullfilled? As has been said in the past, prepare for the 2nd coming, for there will be one. No one said what has been done has been bad, just things we would like to see done with the current status quo to make it better. Thanks Denny Fox | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Nicely said Denny! Now what does PWT or FLW stand for again? (most people have no idea) I talk everyday to fishermen and you would be surprised at the amount that know NOTHING about profesional anglers or that there was a major tournament here last month. I also used to work in broadcasting, the morning show guys are always looking for guest appearances! (no cost just purely promotion) In the immediate area, we generate nearly 300 million dollars for the economy, have dozens of media sources,print, radio and television stations, we have dozens of bait and tackle stores and during the 10 days prior to and during the event here the ONLY thing I heard about or saw (other than from the complainers that their fishing spot was overtaken by tournament anglers) was when I drove through Winneconnie (the chamber there did a great job) Now....Otterstreet will be all over the media as will the Merc Nationals.......Someone tell me why they get the attention and the PWT or FLW does not? (could it be that they give back a bit more to the community?) I don't know I'm just asking) There is no reason a pro angler couldn't be at each and every sport shop prior to the tournament, there is no reason a pro angler couldn't do a 15 minute guest appearance on each local radio station, there is no reason a pro angler couldn't be interviewed by every tv station, and there is no reason that a pro angler couldn't be highlighted in each and every Gannet publication prior to coming to town. You ever been to a Otterstreet, DU, pheasants forever, ducks unlimited, whitetail clasic or similar banquet? There's no reason NOT to have a banquet hall dinner reception before the tournament. Talk to the chamber, the monies raised could go to fish rearing, handicapped sportsman association or other related charity God knows there are enough out there! Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 5/7/2007 4:50 PM | ||
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| shink |
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Member Posts: 201 Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Tyee, I agree with everything you suggested. It always puzzles me why the professional walleye tours, PWT, FlW, don't get more press. Is it because it's not newsworthy? Or is it because we just don't pursue it? I think the pro's would be more then willing to do everything you suggested, because it will also help promote and obtain more sponsors. Our sport needs to be promoted better. Denny I didn't know there were so many interested in just seeing us drive by, and didn't know people were out there fishing within us, just to say they were fishing by us. We need to pursue those fans, and do the banquets, do the morning shows, etc.. Not only will it help bring more fans to the sport, it will help promote our tours and the fisherman in the tours. | ||
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