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Message Subject: voting results for merc | |||
bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Examin? We should look into why? Its called SOCIALISM! its called the courts and the elected officials selling out to Trial law ! Its called bill after bill after bill of failed waistfull spending and backscratching. Its called an attack on anything productive in this country and making it possible to make a living or get by without doing anything productive at all. All i see is a Nation becomming dependant on the political power in office for there future and the producers and hard workers in this country paying the bill! I see major companies or the few that have money to invest in productive idias better off getting a family member elected for the senate to protect there interests and get a foothold on the next gravy train or face being assulted like the rest of the producers and taxed out of buisness or any profitabuility. I see other countrys taking over the world market. I see a massive migration moving to this country and stresses put on our country to absorb and pay there way. I see the family's shrinking because of affordabuility issues and no productive population to support all of the new idias and spending approved. I see a rediculus energy pollicy using climate change to force a new direction. I see energy costs to do buisness or just go threw everyday life exploding and taking away available spending income from the average house hold.. I see a Mortgage industry that backed by government protection and insider dealings got ahold of the 401 k money that the average worker in the contry saved over the years and used it to fund a fals housing market and the little guy took the fall! i see a cover up and a bail out to again not help the little guy but the insider players. DO YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT HAS CHANGED IN THE LAST 15-20 YEARS? Its called taxation without representation and the distruction of our Constitution. An entire industry made of law suits against doctors, employers, and the people, by the too many law majors and law lobbie. I see a failed 50 year old public education system, a failed medicare systerm a failed postal system, a failed any system created by our goverment for the greator good. NOT one thing created by our government has turned out to be a competitive viable program that can even come close to anything other than a major parosite on our nation. in a few years Gas will be 5 bucks a gallon and your electric bill will tripple. inflation will have gone up 15% based on the spending of the last 10 years. 90% of our political representitives do not care and our country is distracted with who has MY back and what Micheal Jackson eat for luch the day he passed on.... the sell off of our country's land , ports and coastline to investors abroad. the assault on our healthcare system to destroy it so the country has no choice but to let the government get controle of another 10% of our econamy and another 7% of our voting public dependant on there jobs. WE HAVE BECOME WEAK SOFT people and our great grandfathers and grandfathers who faught for this country did it for nothing it seems ... Nothing but a good 40 year run! hey we had a good run right? but its over! To turn this ship around will take more than i think the people of this country have in them... Pray for our children and grandchildren. | ||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | my respons above was to the queston why is this happening. why the Flw and the boat makers the tournament world slow down. Responce to a post on the prev page. In the 60's on your block one household had a toy in the driveway. in the 70 half the driveways had a toy parked on it.. in the 80's everyone it seemd had a toy or hobbie and a a shed built on the side to park the stuff in it ! in the 90's we played and worked and took it all for granted. now in the 2000's we go the other direction folks dont even have a driveway anymore and in the next ten years it will be back to working only for a roof over your head and to buy food. the 2% of the country will still have all the toys and live on the lakes and golf courses, the 25% of the country now working for the government in some way or making there living on nice contracts will still have there free time and toys for a wile until further fat will need to be trimmed by the screaming public.. Walleye tournaments? ohhhhh Flw? ya i spose it will fly for a wile yet as long as there is enough folks with a checkbook to compete. | ||
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thumper![]() |
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Member Posts: 744 | EF, you have yet to show the good that came from this "no" vote. The jobs will be moved, and will be done elsewhere for less money at a devastating cost to the FDL community. Show us the good in that so we can understand and be done with this nonsense. | ||
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Shep![]() |
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Member Posts: 3899 | Another "Spokesman" from the union just said there will be no do-over vote. I think this is going to get intense in the next day or two. | ||
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Guest![]() |
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Brad, I agree with every word you typed. I thought I was the only one that was losing my mind. I hope you are wrong, are only hope is that the true Americans will not let the country break. | |||
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steve b![]() |
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no i wasn't offered early retirement!and i did not work for GP.i worked for procter&Gamble!!!! Good luck to all union workers at mercury! Hopefully the company will relize there mistake before it's to late. | |||
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Guest![]() |
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thumper - 8/27/2009 1:36 PM EF, you have yet to show the good that came from this "no" vote. The jobs will be moved, and will be done elsewhere for less money at a devastating cost to the FDL community. Show us the good in that so we can understand and be done with this nonsense. EF Swagee says--------> The 'good' may not be immediately visible to most of us. In my view, the Merc Union members are courageously standing up for the employment rights of every worker everywhere. Their actions will inspire other workers of the world to fight for a more equitable share of the fruits of their labor. They have my full support. I am always astonished when I witness fellow working class members vigorously defend a corporation's right to maximize profit and damn workers who collectively assert their right to maximize wages. It's critical, for this discussion, to add to the equation the reasons why Mercury is selling so many less motors, rather, the reasons why fewer and fewer working class members cannot afford to buy Mercury motors. In solidarity forever, EF Swagee | |||
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Guest![]() |
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Guest - 8/27/2009 7:28 PM thumper - 8/27/2009 1:36 PM EF, you have yet to show the good that came from this "no" vote. The jobs will be moved, and will be done elsewhere for less money at a devastating cost to the FDL community. Show us the good in that so we can understand and be done with this nonsense. EF Swagee says--------> The 'good' may not be immediately visible to most of us. In my view, the Merc Union members are courageously standing up for the employment rights of every worker everywhere. Their actions will inspire other workers of the world to fight for a more equitable share of the fruits of their labor. They have my full support. I am always astonished when I witness fellow working class members vigorously defend a corporation's right to maximize profit and damn workers who collectively assert their right to maximize wages. It's critical, for this discussion, to add to the equation the reasons why Mercury is selling so many less motors, rather, the reasons why fewer and fewer working class members cannot afford to buy Mercury motors. CORRECTION - I meant to write 'why fewer and fewer working class members *can* afford to buy Mercury motors. " In solidarity forever, EF Swagee | |||
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thumper![]() |
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Member Posts: 744 | EF- Your argument has so many flaws, I do not know where to begin...and frankly, I'm too tired to start. I wish the best of luck to all that are affected. | ||
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guest![]() |
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Thumper its a conspiracy according to EF. why cant you see it like he does!LMAO | |||
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CT![]() |
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EF provides the clasic example of why the unions are going the way of the dinosaur, they have failed to evolve from the 60's mentality. They pound their chests, threaten to strike, carry funny signs with cute slogans as they protest, intimidate, call people scabs and all the while the members blindly send in the dues and are told who to support. Then above all they send in floor workers to bargain against high paid labor lawyers. By the way those dues you pay every month, well 75% end up going to the national level union hierarchy who do nothing but party with and lobby politicians. Unions need to evolve, your day of big gains is over and you did many great things but you are still trying to use old methods in a much more evolved business world!!!! Solidarity is great but man people think for yourselves once and awhile, put your dues into retaining a high priced labor lawyer/firm instead of some outdated rank and file union system. Can you imagine the type of lawyers you could have to utilize with all your dues money if you kept it locally? Anyway, I'm with Shep and Sunshine on this one! | |||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | i agree, bringing a club to a gun fight is not going to work anymore. agian as long as there are folks in our own country willing to do the work for less and the Southern states are headhunting and have formed commisions to go out and find companies to agressivly target as a potential investment with taxpayer dollars there is no fighting chance for the union members. so many dont even realize this is going on! the corperations are owned by stockholders from other states and all over the country. though the stockholders may care about production in the united states if you think a stockholder from florida sitting on the board of directors gives a rats a$$ weather Merc is in wisconsin or Oklahoma or where ever your smoken something. When another states representitives show up at the doorstep of your machine shop and pitch the fact that there are thousands of people who will work for half the money and you can take your pick of the 800 job openings from thousands and then add to the fact that the Move will be paid for and the plant will be built and the corperate office will be built at no expence to the manufacturer along with the fact that taxes are lower ,cost of utilitys is lower and there are less restrictions on companies in there state for years to come all taxes and utilities will be waved anyway . IM Sory YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO COMPETE . The fact that Merc even tried to stay here still boggles my mind. like i said its a sad day, and its all over , they say the move will take 24 to 36 months , based on history im guessing your machine shop will be moved in 3 to four months and 6 months tops. the corperate office will be next. YES if you follow the money! YOUR OWN TAX dollars are going to needy states! In return those states are taking money out of there budgets to form headhunter commisions to target attractive companys and offer packages to re-locate. Your UNION dues and tax dollars are funding the folks in washington who can bring home the money and dole it out to states in need. Your paying for Mercs move and so am I! and thousands of other companies too! Edited by bradley894 8/28/2009 11:54 AM | ||
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EF Swagee![]() |
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Okay. I'll try again. Please go back and read the report to which I linked in a previous post. And, please take an objective look at wealth distribution statistics included in this scholarly report: http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html If we're gonna have a reasonable debate here, we need to establish some key facts about the increasingly inequitable distribution of wealth in the US. (If there's no desire to have a reasonable debate, no problemo. I be gone.) Here are two key points: 1) "The Wealth Distribution" "In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2004, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.3% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.3%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.2%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2007)." 2)"Historical context" "Numerous studies show that the wealth distribution has been extremely concentrated throughout American history, with the top 1% already owning 40-50% in large port cities like Boston, New York, and Charleston in the 19th century (Keister, 2005). It was very stable over the course of the 20th century, although there were small declines in the aftermath of the New Deal and World II, when most people were working and could save a little money. There were progressive income tax rates, too, which took some money from the rich to help with government services. Then there was a further decline, or flattening, in the 1970s, but this time in good part due to a fall in stock prices, meaning that the rich lost some of the value in their stocks. By the late 1980s, however, the wealth distribution was almost as concentrated as it had been in 1929, when the top 1% had 44.2% of all wealth. It has continued to edge up since that time, with a slight decline from 1998 to 2004, before the economy crashed in the late 2000s and little people got pushed down again. Table 3 and Figure 4 present the details from 1922 through 2004. Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007)." | |||
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Guest![]() |
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bradley894 - 8/28/2009 11:45 AM <p>i agree, bringing a club to a gun fight is not going to work anymore. agian as long as there are folks in our own country willing to do the work for less and the Southern states are headhunting and have formed commisions to go out and find companies to agressivly target as a potential investment with taxpayer dollars there is no fighting chance for the union members. so many dont even realize this is going on! the corperations are owned by stockholders from other states and all over the country. though the stockholders may care about production in the united states if you think a stockholder from florida sitting on the board of directors gives a rats a$$ weather Merc is in wisconsin or Oklahoma or where ever your smoken something. When another states representitives show up at the doorstep of your machine shop and pitch the fact that there are thousands of people who will work for half the money and you can take your pick of the 800 job openings from thousands and then add to the fact that the Move will be paid for and the plant will be built and the corperate office will be built at no expence to the manufacturer along with the fact that taxes are lower ,cost of utilitys is lower and there are less restrictions on companies in there state for years to come all taxes and utilities will be waved anyway . IM Sory YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO COMPETE . The fact that Merc even tried to stay here still boggles my mind. like i said its a sad day, and its all over , they say the move will take 24 to 36 months , based on history im guessing your machine shop will be moved in 3 to four months and 6 months tops. the corperate office will be next. </p><p>YES if you follow the money! YOUR OWN TAX dollars are going to needy states! In return those states are taking money out of there budgets to form headhunter commisions to target attractive companys and offer packages to re-locate. Your UNION dues and tax dollars are funding the folks in washington who can bring home the money and dole it out to states in need. Your paying for Mercs move and so am I! and thousands of other companies too! </p> You've made a great case for unions. I mean, imagine if there was unity among *all* of us who have to actually work and trade our intellectual and/or physical labor for money so we can survive in this world. What if Merc knew that wherever it chose to set up shop, whether in FDL, Mexico, Canada, China, labor costs would be the same? We've got very serious problems when a greatly increasing number of workers can no longer afford to buy the stuff they're producing. -EF Swagee | |||
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Rich S![]() |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | EF, Just trying to understand your viewpoint. Lets say there is two companies making two completely different products. Both companies have assembly workers and identical skill levels are needed for both. One company is gouging the public and paying corporate billions in bonuses while the other company is making a small profit. Which one of these assembly workers should in your eyes get paid more? | ||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | EF we can sit here and dream if there was unity but there isnt any! there are forces at work who's main goal is to devide! forces at work in all forms including within ourselves. your historical stats tell a big story and i wish folks would take more time to look at history and what happend in the past to help with future decisions but even this is not the case and often avoided to push forward an adjenda of favor. In the past a few Machine shop workers in this situation would get togather and develope a plan to go out on there own and start producing there own line of competive outboards. you would have a few sharp marbles from the shop and the engeneering dept and grab somone from sales staff and a few money men and start up a new operation. Today with mandates on emisions and the competitive nature with cash flow issues and so fourth and the fact that the court system would be used and somone could not afford to fend off law suits and afford to fend off the massive assault that would be directed by the large outboard manufacurers and there connections. Starting a new shop in fondy would be suicide for anyone who would try. The massive amounts of cash needed to produce a product that would conform to this countrys emitions standards alone would be almost impossible for a limmited production operation. SAD BECAUSE if there were such a little shop formed putting out well built moters (hell even carberated 10-100 hp outboards on a starter scale people would buy them up like crazy. the problem is that to conform to new regulation your little outoard machine shop would have to have so much invested that they wouldnt be able to save the public any money.. the law will not permit the old simple outboard technology to be used today. EF, if you look at your figures threw the 1900's you will find that one thing isnt acounted for.... though the percentage of wealth hasnt shifted the amount of money taken from each houshold wealthy or otherwise has increased as of late at an astronomical rate. though the wealthy can adjust the everyday joe cant hide. forget direct payroll taxes if you want to ...Take a look at property , sales tax , taxes and fee's emposed on everything under the sun! fuel taxes and rising costs . the little guy has been assulted for the last 20 year like crazy! go back 20 years and look at what kind of drop the average houshold has taken in avaible spending or money able to be saved. there are few who have any savings at all and after the paycheck is cashed have nothing close to what they had left over 25 years ago.. my utility bill went up 15 dollars a month because they added another fee over and above usage! im one houshold and that 180 a year out of my spending or savable income in one little shot. gas tax goes up? 5 cents a gallon your household uses 100 gallons a week... guess what YOU JUST LOST 260.00 in available anual income. Remember thats an after tax hit so you in this day and age need to make 500.00 to cover the 5 cent gas tax increase for the year! Guess you just worked another week of the 52 in a year for NOTHING! Do people have any clue how much these increases are costing them? 1 dollar a month per phone line in wisconsin's last budget passed. (i think it was a buck) anyway home phone a buck and a family of 4 has 4 more lines so another 5 bucks a month and 60.00 a year. property tax increase? cable bill ads a federal or state fee?. city tax on another fee for garbage pickup. the city of milwaukee adds a wheel tax and your registration goes up by 20 dollars a vehical in your houshold per year! a pack of smokes goes up 75Cents? Smokers do you realize if you and your wife smoke a pack a day in wisconsin next week you will be spending another 547 a year than you were this week? Another week of work spent after taxes with that increase alone! let the government take another 20% of your check for national health care? this is out of controle and its much bigger than a union non union issue. AND YES YOUR POINT IS TAKEN! PEOPLE CANT afford the outboard anymore and with each little tax increase or fee emposed wont be able to affort to fix or put gas in the one they have Now! Forget wages going up! we cant keep up with cost of living. and we havent even felt the 10-15% inflation hit we are going to be looking at based on history when our federal spending goes up so quick... REMEMBER half your take home is already grabbed in taxes fees and the such.. so 10-15% inflation is doubled do to the fact that your availabe income is less than 50% of what you make! Edited by bradley894 8/28/2009 2:14 PM | ||
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GNWC Rookie![]() |
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Member Posts: 625 Location: LaCrosse, WI | Most anybody who knows me can tell you that I am not a union supporter. My reasons are the same as many opinions posted here. Unions nowadays are socialism pure and simple. If you want to live a life where you don’t have choices, and where you can not get ahead based on merit, but must instead wait for seniority then good for you, you’ve reached your goal. Labor laws have changed, and I will admit largely due to the unions of the past. I do feel however, that their time has passed. Current labor laws protect the American workers so much more than in the past that the whole reason for unions is now nullified. The Mercury situation is a prime example of the outdated mentality of the current unions. This company gave the workers a chance to keep some of what they had instead of instantly dropping everything and leaving for greener pastures. The union leaders decided it was not enough, so they convinced members to turn it down. Now everybody will be left with nothing. I’m sure there are plenty of families that were not willing to make this “moral stand” at the cost of feeding their children. This may have worked in the pre-automation days when there were not thousands of computers that can more efficiently measure, cut, assemble and produce goods than humans ever could. There are of course exceptions to this, but the majority of the repetitive factory work can be replicated by computers and machines, and takes much less experience and skill to operate than in years past. The groups that actually have some bargaining power today are the Engineers and scientists who actually develop new items and come up with ideas. Those are the people that are not as easily replaced. Strong arming a company for general labor flat out will not work in todays market. This applies for all forms of business, not just Merc. One thing I will say for companies who no longer deal with Unions, is that they get to choose who is qualified for the work they need done. Seniority does not dictate that John Doe gets to have the top job because he’s been here for 40 years. As a person who reviews resumes and hires business analysts, I can tell you how much of a nightmare it would be if I had to take a 60 year old person with no experience off a punch press and teach them 5 programming languages, business process management etc… They may be the brightest person in the world, but their qualifications simply do not match the job. Enough of my rant, the union screwed up and hurt thousands of people in the Fox Valley. Sugar coat it all you want, nothing good will come from this. | ||
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Rich S![]() |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | On second thought, don't bother. I don't want to have a conversation with someone that uses that as their screen name. | ||
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tyee![]() |
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Member Posts: 1406 | EF, Wealth distribution? What on GODS grean earth does that have to do with Unions? Go to school get an education and earn your own wealth for goodness sakes. Just because the number of people with wealth changed over the time span of politicians and a reference can be made about unions survivability at certain times, I see no viability at all to who has all the money.........The man with the most toys WINS. Human beings are cometitive by nature, unfortunately so many people are being forced by our gov't these days to rely on Gov't telling them what they can and can't do! Capitalism not socialism!!!!!now if thats what you want to debate lets have at it! Good Luck Tyee | ||
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Brad B![]() |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | I was almost temted to join in the conversion, but I sat down for a minute, counted to ten, and the feeling went away... Whew!!! That was a close one. Edited by Brad B 8/28/2009 2:55 PM | ||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | im just frustrated with all the fighting back and fourth when the real issue behind this is people cant afford to buy or used the products produced in this country because there available spending income had dropped. because of the drop this if followed by less demand for product and less hours being worked by those producing or as EF state the same folks who would buy the product cant afford them because of cutbacks. The manufactures being down 40% in sales the last couple of years reflects the same issue.. and if you look back the issue started with our energy policy and gas going up 3 years ago... remember the average houshold with two vehicals going to work daily and maybe a 3rd recreational or child driving can use 100 gallons a week. at even only 1.50 increas per gallon from 7 years ago your looking at a 600.00 increase out of a monthly houshold budget! or 7 grand a year!!!!!! or a house payment or two car payments or half there tax bill or whatever.. Ad to the fact that our nation runs on the stuff and all the shipping costs to do any kind of buisness or even feed the country must increase to absorb the fuel increase we saw massive reductions in available houshold spending income. This is not a short term problem and if anyone thinks wages and our economy will recover from this in a few years better come back to earth! because of less production , less spending and less hours and work being done in this slow time our federal and state and local budgets are in shambles do to lower tax revenue! so what do they do? add more taxes and fees ! taking away more spending income and less buying will be done and so on down the line. There is one thing that can stop this spiral! We need to build Oil refinaries , we need to drill a lot! we need to build about 20 nuke plants for electricity! WE NEED TO BRING DOWN The cost of living and the cost to do buisness in our country Fast or the trend will continue! I do not see any other way out! Remember for some in this country they will fight this to the end and some do not want to see this country thrive in that type of way! some feal there needs to be no production and there are already too many who have free time and boats and rv's and cars and freedom. there are those that do not want the general public at there resorts or able to access there lakes or wetlands. there are also those who prosper with political adjenda's hiding behind climate change to push there favord energy projects , public transportation expansion and massive emitions controle limmitations that slow down companies like Merc GM and the such! there are also those looking to take advantage of the heath care situation to gain controle of that part of our free market. Follow the money folks! thats all. union members and the others all being hit by this up hill battle! direct your attention to the cause and you will have a chance to change the result for companies in the futuere face with the same situation! | ||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | Tyee, Brad B , Sunshine, RichS, GNWC, EF, Pro union Guest, Anti Union guest! all you guys who all love walleye fishing and love to bicker and take shots at each other and get threw the day checking in on here.... We are all in the same boat! We all count on this country to thrive or we all feal the burn! We all need folks to spend money and pay taxes and buy toys , goods and services to keep us working and the heat bill paid at home. to all overpaid governement employees and underpaid ones too! (teachers lol) anyway there wouldnt be the bitterness with each other if things were going well! everyone is crying about each other and face it! you need to be crying to your local state and federal representitives! NOT FOR A FREAKIN HAND OUT EATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR SOME ACTION THAT WILL PUT THIS COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK! NOT to extend cash for clunkers! not to demand health insurance for your life partner! not to demand that the union members get a bigger unemployment check or government contract ... We need to right this ship! wake up! | ||
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thumper![]() |
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Member Posts: 744 | From the FDL Reporter: A rally planned for 5:30 p.m. Friday aims to draw supporters lobbying to keep Mercury Marine in Fond du Lac. Three Mercury union employees, who have gathered signatures on a petition calling for a second contract vote, are asking for backers to gather at Oven Island at Lakeside Park. “We are pushing for a peaceful rally to support the union and keep Mercury here,” said Fred Toth Jr., a Mercury union worker. Toth and fellow Mercury foundry workers Rick Schmidt and Phillip Rodriguez want to know who is saying a second vote cannot be held on the contract. “We request that someone, somehow, show us why we cannot have a revote according to the bylaws,” Toth said. Union officials with International Association at Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 1947 have said, according to the union’s bylaws, a second vote cannot be held unless the company agrees to “significant” contract changes. On Aug. 23, union members at Mercury Marine rejected contract changes company officials said were needed to keep Mercury in Fond du Lac. Toth said he estimates that, since then, at least 40 percent of the workers have had a change of heart. “They have had the time to actually understand and react to what their vote means,” Toth said. Word of the rally is spreading through the town, Toth said. He spent the day contacting media statewide. “People can carry signs and just bring a smile to support us,” he said. Company officials were also contacting Toth to lend support to his cause, he said. Rodriguez said both anger and fear drove him to action. “Other people were deciding my future, and the future of everyone else in the community,” he said. Those in opposition to the “no” vote needed a voice, he said. “They needed someone to say, ‘We don’t feel the same,’” Rodriguez commented. Toth said if a second vote is held and the majority of union workers still vote no, at least they were given a second chance. “We’ve been called some pretty good names through this whole thing, but the union played on my emotions. It’s enough. Now, it’s time for me to let people know,” he said. | ||
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bradley894![]() |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | oh boy! | ||
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Rich S![]() |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | Brad B - 8/28/2009 2:52 PM I was almost temted to join in the conversion, but I sat down for a minute, counted to ten, and the feeling went away... Whew!!! That was a close one. I have had to do that a lot lately. I always end up asking myself "Self, when is the last time you saw someone change their way of thinking because of an internet discussion?" The answer is always -never- and I erase my message before I submit it. Have a good weekend all! | ||
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