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| Message Subject: Tournament Impact in WI ie. Culling study Results | |||
tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Ok I'm starting to take offense to the subliminal messages I am reading into these posts about my position on this issue. First and foremost I am not anti-Tournament. Although I am in favor of better regulated, better quality and more professional events. I have been on top of this issue since 1999 when the first bill was introduced about weather or not tournaments needed more regulation, and weather or not they needed them or what control was available to the enforcers of this resource. For the record, the # of tournaments were small and their popularity was not what it is today and todate there is no "law" that allows anyone to oversee, monitor, manage, etc.etc. these events. This bill allows that and the public had numerous opportunities to speak over the past 12 months. I LET EVERYONE OF YOU HERE KNOW OF THOSE TIMES AND DATES. Sorry but I think your calls will more than likely fall on deaf ears now. To answer your mirror question Dennis, Yes I am refering to tournament anglers, but more specifically the Bass association who wanted culling SO BAD that they allowed the Legislature to pass this bill at the last minute as they saw their bill failing and the DNR bill gaining momentum this was the only way they could get their "culling study" implimented. (AB623 allowed the making of rules and regulations for tournaments). Many many dollars have been spent on this topic and 96k over the past few years is probably the wrong number bur is what was presented as a cost at the time. (for the record I believe the Bass guys should be the ones that have to pay this money back) If a 5 dollar stamp is what it takes I'm all for it. (compared to a 300, 600 or 1400 dollar entry fee thats a drop in the bucket. Regarding the sociological issue and using the resource let em say this, I refuse to fish the river in the spring anymore on weekends because of all the "bar" tourneys Doc speaks of. I will however fish it on weekdays, so yes they have affected how I spend my money and I know many others that feel the same way. As for the tournament impact on the fishery, remember all those quotes you are refering to Dennis are refering to the study of bass. Not Musky and not Walleye. I think a 40% mortality on Walleye harvested in warm water months IS a bad image to be portrayed, especially if those fish are washed up on shore for everyone to see on the 10 oclock news. And for the record I am not objectionable to a catch and kill tourney during this time period to prevent floating fish. So yes reducing the limit from 5 to 3 is a good thing and shouldn't affect anything other than what the director decides to allow to be weighed surrounding the culling issue. I am in no way trying to portray anti-tournamnet sentiment here but rather I have brought this back to the top for information not DNR bashing. The DNR does not work for you Jason. Neither you nor I elected them, their interest is the environment and our resources, and their job is to manage them, we have the privilege to harvest them and I for one am glad they are here looking out for that privilege. Good luck Tyee | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "The DNR does not work for you Jason. Neither you nor I elected them, their interest is the environment and our resources, and their job is to manage them, we have the privilege to harvest them and I for one am glad they are here looking out for that privilege." 95% of this bill has NOTHING to do with managing the resource, it has to do with restricting a small subset of recreational users. And as far as your comment on not fishing the Wolf on the weekends due to pressure from tournament anglers... That's just plain funny. I too avoid the Wolf in the spring due to pressure, but the vast majority of boats on the water I see are NOT fishing a tournament, they are simply out for a good time to catch a meal of fish. If eliminating the 50 or so boats that fish one of these dreaded bar tournaments you and Doc hate so much would make the Wolf safer or reduce pressure on the fragile resource (the only reason to pass such measures IMHO), then I'd gladly take the fisheries manager's advice and not fish. But you are fooling yourself if you think that is the case. And your being selfish if you want to keep me off the water just because you think it crowded. BTW, most of the guys that fish those events would be on the same stretch of river tournament or not. Be honest with yourself. Read the proposal again. What the DNR is asking for makes little sense for anyone who is genuinely concerned about managing the resource. Limit EVERYONE or no one at all. Edited by Brad B 10/3/2007 8:15 AM | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | "To answer your mirror question Dennis, Yes I am refering to tournament anglers, but more specifically the Bass association who wanted culling SO BAD that they allowed the Legislature to pass this bill at the last minute as they saw their bill failing and the DNR bill gaining momentum this was the only way they could get their "culling study" implimented. Your mirror comment read more to me as a "Us vs Them". Them being the tournament angler, which even you participate in, Rodger, so blame yourself as well. Don't sit here and put yourself on a pedastal and point fingers at us. You clearly don't like the fingers being pointed at you. "Regarding the sociological issue and using the resource let em say this, I refuse to fish the river in the spring anymore on weekends because of all the "bar" tourneys Doc speaks of. I will however fish it on weekdays, so yes they have affected how I spend my money and I know many others that feel the same way. " Again, you participated in a "bar" tourney (Fort Fremont Marine Classic) O r did you forget already. Sounds rather hypocritical. As for manageing the resource, Brad nailed it on the head. This is nothing more than a tax on a smaller group of recreational anglers campared to the total number, disguised as tournament regulation. This is so loosely worded, even the fee portion is loosely worded. As you stated the Bass guys asked for a culling study, in no way is the culling issue addressed in this proposal. If you support this kind of "political science". It scares the heck out of me that people think it's okay to allow such crap to occur with in our own government. | ||
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| Shep |
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Member Posts: 3899 | A couple of points here. I attended two of those meetings that you mention. I spoke up at one. Both meetings were attended heavily by tourney anglers, mostly from the walleye side. Bass anglers were few in numbers. Of the approximately 100 speakers at the two meetings I attended, only 4 or 5 were in favor of these new regulations, as proposed. Overwhelming opposition had the DNR reps on the defensive, and spewing out non factual statements to try to justify their position. While I understand they were put in a difficult situation by the legislature, I had to laugh at how they scrambled when they were confronted with this oppostion. The best thing you can all do is call your State AssyPerson and Senator. Write them, e-mail them, call them. Alot! As for the DNR doesn't work for us? Wrong, Mr Tyee. I pay their wages, buy their equipment, and have a voice in how they do their job. I agree they have a tough jobe to do. My beef is not with the DNR, but with the pansy legislatuors who want another source of revenue. That source being my pockets! The fact they release a statement as foolish as there will be no economic impact on small business proves they don't care about us, or the small business man. The person who determined this should be removed from his position. Then they come out and say part of the fees is to help cover costs for the DNR to be at tournaments and record catch data. When do you ever see the DNR at tourneys. Merc National the past 2 years, after a substantial mortality one day. BTW, those fish that were not releasable were processed, and given to local food banks, and other needy programs. A good cause, and not a waste of the resource. And as far as you not fishing the Wolf in the spring on weeknds? Remember, you were guiding me on how to run the river this year. I suspect you are one of the guys you complain about! hehehe It's not just the tourney guys that are inconsiderate of others. Again, I think this thing is being railroaded, and I don't like it. I went to the meetings, and I said my piece. I called, and wrote to my legisltors. Some I got answers from, others I got got political mumbo jumbo. I let those know that I will not support their efforts to be re-elected. I urge you all to do the same. I think perception is everything. There is a perception out there that tourneys are bad, because a few dead fish are spotted after a tournament. And touney boatrs are unsafe, and careless. I think it's too late to stop this, and I think the negative economic impact of these regs will be felt. Give it a couple years of no PWT, FLW, MWS, or MWC events in WI. It will be felt, and the businesses who enjoyed that revenue will surely feel it's loss. Edited by Shep 10/3/2007 8:42 AM | ||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| First of all, like Tyee, I am NOT anti-tournament nor do I hate the bar tournaments and their organizers. In fact, many of them are my friends and some of them are my customers. As was stated, there are just too many and the bar owners are starting to compete with each other for the bar revenue. As far as the weekend scenario, don't kid yourself Brad. VERY few of the recreational anglers stray far from their access point, unlike tournament anglers who run from say Red Banks, 20 miles up stream to the New London area at high speed, then back, thusly affecting ALL the boats in-between. The first tournaments are even scheduled BEFORE the no wake zones are put in on purpose so the guys can get from point A to point B as fast as possible. All I'm looking for is balance. Same with the scenario painted about the guy who gets X% of his income from such and such a tournament. SURELY, in that case, it would seem that there would be nothing keeping that event from running. But here, families are beginning to shy away from the resource because of the "perception" created by too many events running at one time and at least one or two tournaments running EVERY weekend. Also, Jayman. You are a bold face lier when you say that I ran within 10 - 15 feet of your boat while on plane. Just because you don't agree with my view, don't make up Bull Crap stories to try to make yourself feel better or knock my position. BECAUSE of who I am and what I do, I take great care to be as courteous as possible on the river. So go tell your lies somewhere else. | |||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Fact: Joel, you ran past my boat off the bow on plane just above HWY X bridge in the cut during the fall 2 years ago. How wide is the river there in the fall when the water is low? 50'? My boat is 20', give or take there ain't a hell of a lot of room between my boat and shore on either side. If you think I'm wrong about who you are, I know your boat well and who you sold it to. And never did I complain once, nor am I complaing now. I just made a point of what is routine on the river. So don't call me a BOLD FACE LIAR, you *BEEP BEEP BEEP*. Now I asked the point, What perception does that convey to the tourist, that you so defend? Can ya answer it without name calling? Or calling me a liar? So as a guide it's okay for you to run past people on plane (high speed), but it's not okay for someone else, who may appear to be fishing a tournament or is fishing a tournament. Take your double standard else where. Edited by Jayman 10/3/2007 12:20 PM | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Boys, Boys Boys! If we fight amongst ourselves we use all that pent up energy in the wrong direction. Ever hear of divide and conquer? I considered sending out emails to the DNR board and the new secretary asking them to visit this site and take a look at the comments being made. Now I do not feel very comfortable doing so. Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree without personal attacks or name calling. Take it outside | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "All I'm looking for is balance." I buy a license. You buy a license. The guy fishing off the raft buys a license. The guy that launches on the Ratt and drift fishes back and forth infront of it all day buys a license. Seems pretty balanced to me.... You have NO right to interfere with what I like doing on the water unless I'm putting you in harms way. I always drive my boat in as courteous a manner as possible and always obey the SNW rules. I'm sorry that your losing business because too many people like to fish the Wolf in the Spring, but that's not my problem and a couple of tournament per weekend is not the reason. FACT: The Wolf is crowded in the spring. Eliminating a few tournaments is NOT going to change that. If you think otherwise, you are kidding yourself. Look how many people fish at Depere in the spring and there are no tourny's up there until May. Further, how much of an inconvenience could a few dozen boat be when they motor past once in the morning and once again in the afternoon as compared to the dozens of boats that fish each bend in the river from Poygan all the way to New London? | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Jayman I don't consider myself the hard core tournament angler like so many here, although I have no objection to being the one I see in the mirror. The fact that tournament anglers started this regulation change is what that comment is about, not me not you but specifically the BASS organizations. WE as tournamnet anglers and sportsman understand this so please don't take offense personally to that comment it wasn't intended that way. You all know regulation is needed and someone has to pony up the bill for those expenses just like every other political issue ever drafted, how they get their money is really irrelavent. They could create a tag just like they do for trout, pheasant, salmon, duck, deer bear and any other resource. The options available to them are endless. WE'RE going to get it one way or another aren't we? Brad, I don't hate the Bar tourneys lets make that perfectly clear! and yes this is about managing the resource which includes the people that use it! In this case it's the fish and the waterway. I know you understand that the DNR currently has ZERO authority to enforce any regulation or prevent ANY tourney from occuring. all you need is a permit and they can not deny one. So if there were 20 groups that all wanted to have a tourney on April 15th on the wolf, they could. Do you think that would create conflict with the other user groups? It sure would, and for me it was the weekend there were only 8 and I know I was not alone in that thinking. Call me a hypocrite if you want because I fish tourneys but like many of you here I prefer the better quality tourneys where the directors don't let people get away with so much crap to make a few bucks. Nuff said as I have been offended. | ||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| Jayman, I did NOT run past your boat in a way that would be considered rude and your post was nothing but a fabrication of events in an attempt to use it as fuel for your fire. You said 10 - 15 feet, that is why I called you a liar. My position would be the same if there were 50 guides working out of Fremont that ran the river like idiots as far as their effect of the local tourists. And, because they would be more identifiable, it would be easier to control any negative impact. No double standard. This is not just my point of view. It is also the concern of some of the resort owners whose customers don't come back and sight the tournament boats as the reason. This isn't me making this crap up and, it would be pointless to post the emails as without the name and address of the person, they have little value here on this board. Point is, some of the people who USED to stay here, don't anymore because of the growing number of tournament boats. Some of the small boats anglers from the valley and even "day trip" anglers from SE Wisconsin and other places within a couple of hours, do not fish here for the same reason. Now I KNOW it's just a handful of guys giving the "tournament anglers" a bad name, but they have done a good job of it. It's NOT about the crowded resource, it's about having SOME sort of control over how the tournaments are held other then apply for and get your permit and every bar on the water having one in the spring. | |||
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| Cranky |
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| you boy's ever fish up by Hortonville or Shiocton? You could play bumper boats up there and if your in someones spot you could be shot!!!! always have guys flying by ya at full throttle at 15 ft away cause it's only 15' wide between the dead heads....ever here of Deliverence? I think that's were it was filmed!! So my point is it's not all about tourney fisherman! maybe we should send all these non turney guys up there.... they'll either come back with a different opinon or not come back at all.....lol | |||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | "It is also the concern of some of the resort owners whose customers don't come back and sight the tournament boats as the reason." Excuse my bluntness, but so what??? Since when do a few guides, a couple of disgruntled tourists, and a resort owner or two get to run access to a PUBLIC resource? There are a limited number of options for people that want to fish in April. Because of that, the areas ARE crowded. Every group has its 10% of people that don't mix well with others and behave poorly. That's too bad, but its life. We'd all like to have the entire river to ourselves, but that's simply not the way it is. "Some of the small boats anglers from the valley and even "day trip" anglers from SE Wisconsin and other places within a couple of hours, do not fish here for the same reason." Again, so what? If you think people avoid the Wolf in smaller boats because of the crowds and larger boats running around a lot, you should check out the Fox in Depere. I counted over 250 boats in a VERY short stretch of river there a few years back. Talk about nuts... But where else are any of these people going to go for their "day trip"? The Wisconsin is just as nearly as crowded and the Mississippi is not a day trip away. If we can find a way to make sure only a limited number of non-tournament anglers have access to the water each weekend, I'll consider limiting the number of tournament anglers. Until then, you have NO right to tell me how to fish. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Joel, Did you or did you not sell your Triton to Chris? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I got the right boat and the right guy. Fabrication of events? You calling me a liar again? Again, I didn't complain, and I'm not saying you were rude. That is routine behavior on the Wolf among many of the locals. I asked what perception do you think the tournist gets from that? I don't expect a good answer from you, because obviously you can' t answer it with out calling me a lair and getting defensive. Besides, I think your character has spoke enough volume for people to see your true colors. Secondly, If the tourists are so offended by these tournaments. Why in the world would they frequent the very same establishments that host these bar tournaments? I'll freely admitt that I participate in some of these local spring tournaments. I'll also state that many of these bar tourneys have the so called "tourists" fishing these same events from areas that are not local to the Wolf River. As Brad stated, the fact is the Wolf River is a busy place from ice out til about now, weather it be fishing or jet skis or pleasure boaters. SOME people just aren't going to be happy if they don't have the river to themselves or a spot to themselves, not because there is a tournament or two happening on the giver any given day. Let me ask you this, New London hosts whopper weekend, a tourist event, how many of those people do you think are gonna be happy about getting a tournament stamp for a weekend of fun where the fishing is secondary to the music and drinks at the tent? Cranky, YOUR A LIAR!!! HAHAHAHAHA I know exactly what you mean. I had guys throw beer cans at me one day as I tried to sneak through some dead falls to get up river. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | There is a good bunch, and I don't mean a few, land owners along the wolf that want to live "On golden pond". They don't think anyone should be able to go fast. They are starting to push really hard. solid slow no wake from the mouth through waupaca county, PERIOD!! You guys say it will never happen? Keep fighting, keep living in 1980, keep defending the 10%, keep..... and on golden pond is where this will go. In Fremont, there is a slow no wake change brought up at least once a year. It is just a matter of time. I like the stamp idea for tourneys, that should slow down the tourism really good. Who benefits from whopper weekend? I am sure they won't benefit as much. Doc, is that the kind of tournament that should be limited? Just asking, don't get mad. By the way, the locals or tourist do not define the diference between your triton, jays big boat or my tuffy, they see a big boat, it is a tournament boat, PERIOD!!. I would suspect many of the complaints that are fabricated were due to the rule we have about selling boats to people that have no idea how to drive them. I do know this to be fact. | ||
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| Brad B |
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Member Posts: 617 Location: Oshkosh, Wisconsin | Throwing beer cans is a not a sign of anger or aggression. If the cans were full, they were just trying to be friendly - "Have a cold one mate!" - that kind of thing. If the cans were empty, they were probably just trying to help you offset the high cost of fuel. That's why when someone does something like that, I always smile, wave, and say "thanks"! | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Hahahaha Brad, I hadn't really looked at it that way. You're right, maybe these guys were just being nice and trying to help me out. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | we are getting a bit off topic in talking about crowding on the river... as far as tournament boats, lets face it if you have a larger boat with a stripe on it and a jacket that matches and your new fishing cap that you got for chrismas from your son that also happens to be the same as your boat brand, doesnt make you a big time tourny guy,, but yu look like one... and so does the hacker on the golf course with the taylor made f7 hat and his new shoes golf shirt and matching golf bag... my second point is take a look at the photos , go back 15 years, go back 30 years go back 50 years go back ,,, you will see that river was always crowded durring the spring run,,, if anything there was more of a migration of people and way more from out of state as this run has always been one of the best in the country,,, this is nothing new... ask a few old school boys what kind of tradition and party it was up there... ask them about the meat runns , the poundage of fish taken , the old black and white photos , the people not just fishing from a bridge in winniconi but shore fishing for miles and miles.. there might be a case to be made that there is less pressure now days than ever. oh and dont forget there was no protection back in the day for sturgion , or the big females heading in and out of the marches , day and night wheelbarrels of fish taken , nothing new... what is new now is we are more respectful, most take what the will eat , and now we pay taxes ,,, a-lot. the shore land owners are psst because thy pay a-lot to live there ... they guy in the row boat is pssst because he can t justify buying a big sparly one for 40 grand... maybe he could if half his income wastnt taxes.. human nature , but i think the bitterness from all of us comes from our perception of fairness ,, unfortunatley we are all getting the shaft , looking for someone to blamb ,, we can blame ourselves for giving power to the wrong people who then make us more bitter and attack our own more often,, this gives legislators more oppertunities to take more and more , as i guess we, ask them too ,.... its not fair.. you have to doe something about this group, and that group,,, ,, where does it end? | ||
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| Shep |
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Member Posts: 3899 | I have a solution to the overcrowding on the Wolf in the spring. It will also address the taking care of the resource issue. Shut it down. Get rid of the open all year on the Bago chain. That will stop alot of the big spawners from being double dipped, and killed. There was never a tourney held on that body of water, where the contestants double dipped, was there? Can you say that about the so-called tourists? Don't deny it doesn't happen alot. We all know better. And why do you have to say we all agree that tournament regulation is needed? I don't agree with that. Not one bit. I think the bigger tournament series have self policed themselves pretty well. Just look at the improvements they have all made in the past few years on handling fish. Yes, more improvements are needed, still. But look at the FLW water weigh in. Way better for the fish. They are pretty careful about culling out the fish that won't make it, before relesing them. They have built special release vessels, with cooling and oxygenation systems in them, and they release out in the cooler waters. The tournamets series are becoming very aware of public perception, and I believe all are trying to implement measures to ensure no dead fish are left floating to be on the 10 O'clock news. The MWS last year asked up to park way back in the grass field at the Bago event last year. Most of us did, and I applaud Jim Coon for looking at the big picture. When I was at the hearings, the few proponents of this regulation were divided in two groups. The first group was the "look at all the wasted fish after a tournament" and the second was the "they crowd the ramps and I can't get on the lake" group. Both based mostly on perception, both groups mostly wrong. But, as I have said in the past. Perception is everything. Write your state legislators. Make them hear us. It's the only way we are not going to get screwed. It's the only way to keep the millions of dollars the tourneys bring to WI. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | ok shep what is up with that? shut it down.? in spring? yu have a hundread miles of shorline and marshes uper lakes and lake winnibago for fish to spaun,,,, let the boys catch there dinner.. unless you want to stuff another 200 boats a day in the river in depere in the spring... thats where i would go if i couldnt catch some eaters on the bago chain.. | ||
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| Sunshine |
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Member Posts: 2393 Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Shep, Not sure if you are trying to get a rise out of people or not but closing the wolf during the spawn IS AN OPTION. I'm sure it is not a popular option for the same business people who are supposedly complaining about tournaments but IT IS an option. We all know that the real problem is overcrowding on a very narrow stretch of river. That's why they have the no wakes in the first place. Maybe they should have no wakes for the entire stretch for the whole season. Seems to me that the problem would be taken care of. Lots of people would not fish it then and the problem would take care of itself. Hard for me to believe that tournaments would be scheduled if this would happen. And it appears that some business people would be happy with that too. All would be good in the world until some of the same business people start complaining that business is down. I believe that they need to be careful what they ask for. I get this feeling that some people (not you) talk from both sides of their mouth. They complain that some never come back and they complain that there are too many people on the river. The overcrowding problem would be worst if those people never left. As far as the comment concerning over harvest. I know it happens and I do not condone it but is it really an overwhelming problem? I keep hearing that the system is stronger than ever. If this is true, where is the problem? Putting additional restrictions on a perceived problem without data supporting it is like restricting tournament fishermen from bringing in normal quotas. We wouldn't want that to happen would we? WAIT, I guess that we are into making rules that make little sense. So yes, by all means, shut 'er down for a month. I do not see the scientific data supporting it but I guess it’s a social issue. (Insert sarcasm anywhere you like) In regards to your comment about tournaments policing themselves, you are right, the bigger tournaments do a good job. But the smaller tournaments (insert some bar tournaments here) do a poor job. How can the new rules differentiate between the good and bad? I have no problem paying for a stamp to tournament fish if the money I pay goes directly into improving the tournaments or the fishery. If this can be proven to me I will be a happy camper. But making me pay more while telling me that I must keep less really bothers me. This makes no sense to me at all. I have no problem with “On Golden Pond” as long as we all live with the “Golden Rule”. These types of problems are all caused by too many people using the same resource. I’d hate to see our state starting to adopt solutions from other states like California where you would be charged $60.00 to fish an area for one day. That solves the problem too. Now here is a very unpopular statement from a tournament fisherman. Regulation is needed. I believe that Winnebago is a classic example. I believe that there really are too many tournaments on that system. Admit it, you shake your head too when you see the spreadsheets showing all of the tournaments throughout the year. There are just too many. It is a social issue. And I can see people who love that system as much as we do shaking their heads every Saturday when the fleet goes screaming by. You and I fish because we like the whole tournament scene. We like the take offs, the pressure, the camaraderie, the competition, the fast boats, etc. etc. etc. But we also like the solitude of fishing from time to time. And we like taking the young ones fishing without having to compete with 20 other boats for a reef. These are real scenarios that we need to talk about. The fishery is for everyone not just us. We are passionate about not loosing our rights but these people are passionate about not loosing theirs too. Again, the problem is overcrowding on confined resources. We must all live together in harmony. The solutions must work for everyone not just us. We are an interest group that feels like we are getting screwed. But to make it all work, we must listen to the other side and try to come up with solutions that make everyone happy, not just us. (sermon done) | ||
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| Joel "Doc" Kunz |
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| First, to repeat. Jayman, was only calling you out on the 10 - 15 feet. Someone being THAT close paints a totally different picture. Brad, you said, "Excuse my bluntness, but so what??? Since when do a few guides, a couple of disgruntled tourists, and a resort owner or two get to run access to a PUBLIC resource?" That's not the case. It's a more complex issue then that by far. It's stupid to think it is as simple as you described. As I stated , I am NOT against tournaments, I am FOR some sort of control over them on a local level. When I see first hand examples of people packing up and leaving mid trip and see vacant rooms on weekends that used to be filled, it is cause for concern. As far as close the river in the spring, (which is a ridiculous comment in this thread), if the DNR thought it was best for the resource, I would have no problem. Now I could tell you what comments were made by certain DNR personnel regarding that, but will hold those to private discussion. Who knows, if VHS kills enough fish, they may have to. It's also not about over crowding, wow, read the words. It's about going forward with no control over the number of events and how they are held. It's about TRYING to determine some sort of balance so that recreational anglers are not jaded as to the use of a system. If the DNR considers the level of events, their boundaries and manner in which they are held OK, then I have no problem. What I have is an answer to the people who I work with in local tourism along with an answer to my own concerns. Also as far as your comments of the FLW Shep, that's not even close to what I am talking about. Really Shep, to think that there is NO need for some sort of regulation is head in the sand mentality. Stacker, as far a Whopper Weekend. The new rules and WW is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Because the event has no cash prize for the fishing portion it doesn't even NEED a permit nor have they ever filed for one, until possibly last year. This event has trophy for biggest 3 day stringer of walleyes and is an event where cheating (by people holding big females in tanks for weeks) is known and it is said, and I quote "If a guy wants to cheat for a #$%ty little trophy, let him". Although it's a good party, it's my personal view the fishing portion should be changed. If you had seen the large number of dead pre spawn females a few years ago, you would feel the same way. Also, most people can tell the tournament boats by the bow ribbon or motor sticker the event organizers use, or in the case of the PWT by the boats themselves. Sunshine, amen. Edited by Joel "Doc" Kunz 10/5/2007 12:41 PM | |||
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| Viking |
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Member Posts: 1314 Location: Menasha, WI | Even though I've been keeping up on the thread, for a number of reasons, I've stayed out of this conversation to this point. However, time to interject. It seems clear that there are two different issues getting merged into one. The first is the claim that there are too many tourneys in the spring on the Wolf -- that may be so, however, I haven't fished there at that time of the year so I can't make any informed comments. The second comes from Dennis' post that there are too many tournaments on Bago and those tournaments cause traffic problems on the lake. Given that I am on Bago far more often than most people, I feel qualified to disagree. The traffic problems described occur whether there is a tournament or not -- especially where bar tourneys are concerned, most of those people would be on the lake even if no tourney was being held. I can think of only one instance this season where I've had an encounter with tourney boats, that was near the Oshkosh mouth during pre-fishing for the PWT (and, for the record, only 1 of the many PWT boats I ran into that week behaved rudely). Even in that instance, tourney boats were outnumbered by us weekend warriors 5-1. Granted, I primarily fish on the NW 1/6th of the lake and few tourneys are launched from up here -- maybe the tourney traffic is worse on other parts of the lake and my comments are off the mark. From my perspective as a full-time weekend warrior, there isn't a real traffic problem associated with Bago tourneys that requires regulatory intervention. I may open up a new can of worms here, but I do feel from a biological monitoring standpoint that tourneys should be given more scrutiny. Many of the arguments that have been made here include some allusion to the fact that tourneys aren't doing any harm. Certainly, there is so far no evidence that there is harm but, then again, there isn't much evidence available. As an very infrequent participant in tourneys, I would be willing to pay a few extra bucks a year if that money went to DNR monitoring. The information collected would be valuable as evidence in debates about the effects of tourneys and the health of the system in general. Edited by Viking 10/5/2007 1:20 PM | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | ok this is pointless,,, no wonder the state and the govornor and everyone else walk all over us,,, you guys are off on some other tangent all the time... you so bussy woried about NO wake ,, that you dont see them take your new boat out of the shed,,, or the new boat you would have if you wouldnt let them , LET THEM! hell you are asking for it for gods sake,!!!!!!!!!!!! here take my wallet.. spend it on your stupid programs and idias,,, im too busy beoching about the fact that they should make the river no wake... ya keep it up we will all be back in a leaky row boat in about 15 years when not only it will take your income and your wifes to pay taxes but you will have to sell live bait on your front lawn just t put enough gas in your 3 banger yugo/hybread to pull your 8 foot pram to the river.. | ||
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| Jayman |
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Member Posts: 1656 | Doc, if it makes you meel better, then fine 15-20' away. The river isn't that wide in some stretches, and I don't think it matters. In some stretches, if you go past another boat on plane, they MAY be mad. Perception is everything. Just like your perception is: Tournaments are driving away business on the Wolf river. "The new rules and WW is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Because the event has no cash prize for the fishing portion it doesn't even NEED a permit nor have they ever filed for one, until possibly last year." As it's written now in what Tyee posted, You nor anyone else can garauntee that a permit will not be needed that a stamp will not be needed. It's too loosely worded to support. Tournament permits are already being issued by DNR staff, the DNR has the right to recommend/advise any tournament in how it's run. I believe most tournament directors try to adhere to those recommendations as best they can. So if the proposal goes through adding a permit fee and a stamp will make this all better? I highly doubt it. Again, this as it's written is a loosely worded tax on a specific group of users to a natural resource. The other criteria is even more loosely written. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | and Viking lov you and all but the DNR doesnt need a few extra bucks for monitoring.. if someone was breaking the law or running there craft at a high rate of speed to close to shore or another boat the dnr would be welcome to write tickets;; dont you dare give in, and offer up my money to pay the dnr to monitor anything. send them all the money you want im tired of you guys giving in on behalf of the people... thats the problem ,, the Dnr does not use the money on our behalf the bulk of the revinue raised from the existing registraitions and licences and fees get missuesed and re-directed to other projects and budgets.. that my point ,, enough of this crap!!!!!!!!!!! viking sory to jump i know where your heart is but you cant propose to drag somone out into the street one day and then bend over the next , wait.... unless they got to you.... hmmmm? if they got to you viking type all your posts from this point on without using any letter Y's and ill come get you otta there... lol | ||
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