|
|
Location: Rhinelander | What other sport requires unpaid participants to go to retail outlets for appearances before the event? Unless it's part of the contract ( one the athlete gets PAID FOR), not many Pro Athletes or Anglers will do that. Why? Because they need to be focused on the Game that is nearly on, prefishing and preparing for the event, and NO ONE IS PAYING FOR IT. Money talks, and you know the rest. The Circuits do NOT 'make money' so perish that thought, too, unless you want to see $2500 entry fees for the same payout. Sit with one of the executive directors and ask them about the road to where we are now and what they hope for.
I've been there behind the stages since the Manion Circuit, and competitive Walleye angling HAS come a very long way. Not happy? Some have thought the competition level and promotion could be stepped up. They did what they had todo to execute, got a couple million bucks together and started the FLW and PWT. That's what the Lindners and Irwin Jacobs did to improve on and advance the original concepts of the Manufacturers Walleye Council Tournaments, and those folks are some pretty heavy hitters.
In my VERY humble opinion, the ONLY way this would work at the grassroots level as we are discussing is for the Pro's Sponsors to carry that torch. Stacker has been hitting on that for a week without really saying it.
The Merc Nationals are part of Walleye Weekend, a huge festival with unbelievable local involvement, and not from the anglers, either. Who's weigh in trailer and equipment do they use? Heck, Jim Coon runs the thing these days, and very well, too. Shouldn't HIS other events get the same press? Over 30,000 attend Walleye Weekend, and how many are at the weigh ins? A couple thousand, and most of those family of the hundreds of anglers. I already addressed that. Otter Street is BIG, and is LOCAL, LOCAL TALENT, for the most part. Are the teams from either event bumping in to each other to volunteer for free seminars at the local sport shops? Is Mercury Marine or Otter Street holding Meet the Pros banquets just before the events to promote each tournament? Are they on local or national morning TV? Do either the Merc Nats or Otter Street have a featured show on television like FLW and PWT? Does IN Fish TV or Lindner Media (pretty big media names, yes?) film EITHER?
Easy to preach from the bleachers, guys. Get in the trenches once. Eric agrees on the form, but what is the actual function??? Talk won't get it done, but Big Money might. I think I covered that in my last post. Most of the Pros are working on their own money, for the most part. No Circuit is paying them to compete, it's the other way around. This isn't Pro Football, Baseball, or any other team sport, it isn't and will never be Nascar because there are no crash and burns. Fishing competition doesn't lend itself well to live national TV and the big dollars generated by advertisers there.
Each Pro definitely can make an impact locally, if that's in the Pro's time line and budget. Part of marketing the 'product', which IS the Pro's image.
Not as easy as it seems. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1382
| "Fishing competition doesn't lend itself well to live national TV and the big dollars generated by advertisers there."
-----
I believe it absolutely could, (there is a solution for every problem) and has to in order to reach the levels everyone describes.
Many of the ingredients for growing interest have been touched upon in the discussion, and center largely around creating channels and opportunities for anglers to acquire and build a following. The pros also need to take advantage of those opportunities.
What is it that makes what they do worth watching and investing your interest ? We (circuits, media) need to continue to highlight those qualities and reward people for investing their interest in the sport by providing entertainment value, and the fans need to demand it. However, all of this does take money so it becomes a step-wise, evolutionary process. Sometimes evolution happens under the surface and in a form you can't see right away, but is happening nonetheless.
I still contend that in tournament fishing, there are more parallels to Pro Golf than to the common NASCAR reference. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Mr. Sworrall:
Well said sir, well said.
However, I do believe that we offer something worthwhile for TV. I can not fathom the idea that poker and hot dog eating contests are more interesting than a fishing tournament. I believe that BASS is on the right track but we still have a ways to go. There are lots of interest stories out there that will make people want to watch and follow.
If the TV media continues to shoot a planer board for 30 minutes waiting for it to go back we will never grow the sport. But if they learn more about the Pro, do the interest stories, do more with teaching, show the 3D animations of the areas they are fishing, show the waves waiting with the kids at weigh-in, get the hat camera's, talk about the decisions of no cull events, etc etc
Shep made a good observation when we chatted at the PWT weigh-in. Why were there so many people the final day at Winneconnie (there were lots) but few come to the FLW Tour final day? Is it because it is in a parking lot? I have no clue but it is a good question.
There are plenty of Pro's that would be willing to do PROMO stuff prior or after the tournament. But once it begins they should be allowed to focus on the tournament.
Many Pro's would love to have a writer or local celebrity in their boat prefishing. This should be easy to make happen. Mr. Sworral, you are more than welcome to spend time in my boat at the Escanaba FLW Tour event. See how easy it is?  |
|
| |
|
Location: Rhinelander | Sunshine, I agree. The PWT nd FLW already do air TV programs, but a long way from live. As was mentioned, Golf is a good parallel, but imagine what it takes to cover just 10 anglers. A camera in every boat, another in a chase boat, and more. Airing an event live is VERY expensive, and as WalleyeFIRST mentioned, some events are probably eventually headed that direction. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Steve,
I never mentioned live. Others did. We are a long way from making that happen.
You know better than I, but I do not think that the costs are that prohibitive any more to put cameras in boats. There are cheap alternatives to make it happen. The cameras attached to hats or in the boat somewhere is a start. Collect them at the end of every day from your ten boats. FLW has tracking devices now. They know where we are. Why not allow a fisherman to call on a marine radio when they are on a major bite and have camera boat show up.
I watch the FLW and BASS shows whenever possible and I really think that they make the shows more interesting and appealing than walleye shows. Why?
Jason sat on a spot anchored for three days at FLW. Having a camera with him and doing the needed editing would have been exciting. Fish wraps around a tree, will it come off or will it be caught? The waiting game.......... no fish in 3 hours now what do you do? Last flight out, will a local or Pro be in my spot? His wife and kids were there, did they take the time to interview them before final weigh-in.? Did you? They can make it interesting.
There were a lot of different techniques being used successfully at Red Wing. Will we see this? Will we learn why people chose what they did? Did you cover this?
You and Zach are doing a great job with live chats during weigh-ins. But I have to ask myself why there were only 5 people logged in during final weigh-in. Do people care? You have your still camera and video camera there. When will we see some live feeds from the tournament? Will the PWT and FLW allow you? Is this cost prohibitive? WalleyeFirst is now the number one internet tournament coverage out there. Does the FLW and PWT know this and will they help to build on this? Or do they see you as threat? Are your interests the same as theirs? You both want to see the sport grow but with your involvement and success. Do your financial interests prohibit cooperative growth?
I watch every video you put out there during a tournament. Do others? Are you getting a good return on your time and money?
I wish that the PWT and FLW would allow you to tap into their audio feed at tournaments. Could you provide the ban width to shoot this to the web page?
You have the stats and lots of pictures of the anglers now. When someone is coming to the scales could you shoot their walleye ranking stats up on the screen with their pict?
When are you going to hire me so I can give you a lot more ideas to grow  |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| "You and Zach are doing a great job with live chats during weigh-ins. But I have to ask myself why there were only 5 people logged in during final weigh-in. Do people care?"
I do care, like many others I'm at work when there is a weigh-in, if it's local sure I can sneak out and check out hte action live. When it's not, I depend on the web to let me know. But the web is not perfect and those of us at work are most likely behind some firewall or other computer software that "protects us from the evils of the world". The internet still has a way to go to be as reliable as television, newspapers, and radio.
I can not access the live chat during weigh-ins, or chat at any time for that matter. Most videos that are on this very website run for about 10-30 secs and then just hang up, no more over. This is not a bash towards WF because it's on many websites that I have this issue. And I would suspect others do to.
Just a tid bit of why the internet is not perfect in my humble opinion. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | When the PWT Decided to, a long time ago, go to a weds, thurs, friday weigh in versus thurs, friday sat, they did it, for what I understand, 2 reasons. 1- to not have the pros using up the water for the locals that get to fish now and then. 2- to make sure the guys did not have to fight the weekend crowds and get better baskets.
What did this do to the ability of the PWT to increase the fan base. At the time it was implemented it did nothing bad as tournament walleye fishing was in its infancy and had lots of room for growth. Today, I believe the weekday weigh-ins are restricting the growth of the sport. It is not building a stage for manufacturers of all types of retail products to showcase them. There is nothing like attending any sporting event live. People are constantly watching what is hanging on banners and sublimily thinking about there products. Advertisers know this. Many of us get the chance to decide where our advertising dollars are best spent in business every year. There are many faucets to this equation. Marketing experts are best suited for this task. There are many that are hoping the internet will be the fan base savior, its great and WF rocks, but it will not be the sole reason that the fan base will grow.
I have a hard time believing that the circuits do not make money. No one is in this for there health. That is not the way things work.
Remember, not all changes need the big dollars to succeed, but they do need to be implemented.
As far as guys, the players, doing community stuff, well, I wouldn't do it for free when I am on the road. But if my sponsor said you will do this, then, that is what needs to be done, he is paying the bills.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1382
| Whoa lots of questions.
--
"You and Zach are doing a great job with live chats during weigh-ins. But I have to ask myself why there were only 5 people logged in during final weigh-in. Do people care?"
--
Reviewing the last 3 interactive weigh-in logs the number is more like 50 during the course of an event. It's a small fraction of the regular leaderboard. Many of the things we do - we don't announce them, we'll just put a link up just ahead of time to get a few people in to test the waters, see the reaction. We may change a few things and come back and try it a few events later. Also, the timing of weigh-ins (right during the time you would be leaving work), during working hours is bad. Most people can only check the regular LeaderBOARD and can't sit and chat during work. Even fewer could view an audio or video stream, but the numbers from last year's PWT Live Video at the Championship show that if you build it people will come to a certain extent.
--
His wife and kids were there, did they take the time to interview them before final weigh-in.? Did you? There were a lot of different techniques being used successfully at Red Wing. Will we see this? Will we learn why people chose what they did? Did you cover this?
--
We only have one person on-site during an event. Someday we will have two.... and then three...
--
When will we see some live feeds from the tournament? Will the PWT and FLW allow you? Is this cost prohibitive?
--
Remote locations would require Satellite Broadband with high upstream bandwidth and multiple people on-site. Non-remote locations use temporary broadband lines brought into the event. PWT and do this for some regular events and the championships, but have only broadcasted live video from the championship. So it's been done.
--
I watch every video you put out there during a tournament. Do others? Are you getting a good return on your time and money?
--
Our top three videos all have over 12,000 views. It is time well spent on our end.
--
WalleyeFirst is now the number one internet tournament coverage out there. Does the FLW and PWT know this and will they help to build on this? Or do they see you as threat? Are your interests the same as theirs? You both want to see the sport grow but with your involvement and success. Do your financial interests prohibit cooperative growth?
--
We work very well with both circuits, yet at the same time compete for the same eyeballs, which are really only mutually exclusive during live events. They both like having us there. The growth of walleye tournament fishing and any of the three entities you mention is good for all of us and I think everyone realizes that.
--
I wish that the PWT and FLW would allow you to tap into their audio feed at tournaments. Could you provide the band width to shoot this to the web page?
--
We have discussed this also, but from a slightly different slant. Bandwidth is not an issue.
--
You have the stats and lots of pictures of the anglers now. When someone is coming to the scales could you shoot their walleye ranking stats up on the screen with their pict?
--
Yes.
All of your ideas are good ones, although not new ones, and all take time, money and people to accomplish. Those of us that cover of run tournaments for a living probably have ten ideas for every one the average guy has thought of, simply because we think about it more. In short, there is no shortage of ideas or wish lists for coverage, but there is a shortage of what it takes to get the job done (time-money-people). All these ideas need to be sold to someone. It IS getting there, step by step. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1382
| I can not access the live chat during weigh-ins, or chat at any time for that matter. Most videos that are on this very website run for about 10-30 secs and then just hang up, no more over. This is not a bash towards WF because it's on many websites that I have this issue. And I would suspect others do to.
Just a tid bit of why the internet is not perfect in my humble opinion.
You don't have enough bandwidth to view the videos. Most video is delivered in Flash, and the bitrate we use is lower than most. IF you have sufficient bandwidth, then there are other issues with your set up or your hardware. I would definitely look into that because you are missing out on a ton of great content, and not just here. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Zach,
Thanks for your candid responces. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| Trust me, Zach, if I had that kind of control the world would be a happier place And I'm guessing there are others in the same boat. We do need to be protected for our own good, as many IT people would state. Insert a lot of sarcasm here. (I'm not a fan of most IT depts.)
Edited by Jayman 5/8/2007 11:11 AM
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Stacker,
I do not have any inside info but would guess that the actual tournament circuit is happy breaking even. This does not mean that people do not make money or a livelihood. I will guess that those employed make a modest income and all bills are paid. The FLW and PWT get a return on their money from magazine subscriptions, sales from boats and TV etc. But I still believe that the actual tournament is a wash after all salaries are paid.
As far as the Thursday, Friday, Saturday format..................
I'm not sure that I agree that will solve anything. As Shep observed at the PWT weigh in, it sure seems that the PWT gets more people attending than the FLW. And the FLW does a Saturday weigh in. I would also be concerned with tournament bashers coming out and complaining that the Pro's are getting in their way on a Saturday. It would be interesting to know if the FLW gets any flack. Seems like a darn if you do and a darn if you do not scenario.
It's too bad that a lot of tournaments are now in April, May and June when kids are still in school. This is more of a direct relationship with DNR rules than anything else concerning fish mortality. I would think more kids and more families could/would attend during the summer months.
I believe that the PWT and FLW, through the chamber of commerce, should raffle off a couple of prefishing days with a few well known Pro’s. The money could go to a local charity. It could spark more interest and the word out more.
I would believe that the PWT has a very large bank of data on magazine subscriptions through Primedia. They could send out an email to all subscribers in the vicinity of a tournament reminding them to come. They should have freebies at these and shoot hats, shirts and lures to the crowds. Mercury and Lund (to name a few for PWT) could do the same if they wanted to through their warranty data on customers. Send out an email saying they are sponsoring a PWT in local area.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Rhinelander | Since the FLW League is one day, it's not as likely to draw complaints as 3 and 4 day events. I think the weekday format is fine for the most part, because of the reasons listed. FLW Pro is down to 10 boats on Saturday, not an issue there.
As far as the 'making money' issue, Sunshine is correct. The Circuits are designed to promote businesses and products, and for the most part are set up to create good TV shows and magazine to accomplish those goals. Onsite promotion is minimal when compared to the other venues, and that's a cold hard fact of life.
In Fish promotes their business, FLW theirs.
The owners of In Fish own the PWT---obvious synergy there.
Who owns the FLW? Who owns Ranger Boats, a title sponsor? Obvious synergy there too, but the FLW brought in other boat sponsors (G3 Boats) to get where they are today. That should tell you something! FLW Outdoors is a big company, but I don't think the Walleye events are making a big profit.
Used to be RCL, when he owned all three boat companies...
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2300
Location: Berlin | I will tell you what, any circuit that comes to town can just pay me $2000 and I will get more people to the weigh-in then there ever has been before or their money back. Maybe they can just give me a free entry into the tournament and we call it even. It will be the easiest money I have ever made |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Steve, I never said it would be a requirement. I'm glad I peaked your interest though this is good conversation. Dennis I never heard of anyone doing anything to break even.
If the Tournament directors want to grow they need to teach their customers (anglers)Marketing 101. These anglers need to focus on where the money is. How many of them have ever considered targeting the Fortune 500 businesses, they spend Billions on Marketing every year. Don't think BP isn't happy this week!
Rich, If this is a raffle I'll do it for $1995.00. Better yet make it 4k and I'll double your attendance. I'll get BOTH of my friends to show up! This really isn't rocket science! a couple of fliers a few phone calls to book a few dozen celebrity fishermen some charity events, a few Elementary, middle and High school appearances..........the list goes on. I'm sure there are a lot of anglers that would welcome the opportunity to build their resume for their sponsors.
Good Luck
Tyee |
|
| |
|
| Oh boy ... |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | As far as the Thursday, Friday, Saturday format..................
I'm not sure that I agree that will solve anything. As Shep observed at the PWT weigh in, it sure seems that the PWT gets more people attending than the FLW. And the FLW does a Saturday weigh in. I would also be concerned with tournament bashers coming out and complaining that the Pro's are getting in their way on a Saturday. It would be interesting to know if the FLW gets any flack. Seems like a darn if you do and a darn if you do not scenario.
Steve stated that the league is a one day event, not a 3 or 4 day deal.
I think that you will need better ideas than those expressed to quantify the idea of not having the last day on saturday. Obviously the PWT is trying to grow the crowds as they have put climbing walls and dog jumps and a whole slew of family related stuff at the weigh ins to draw people. The only part they forgot was kids are in school till 315 and the weighs are designed to end by 5pm. Unless you live in the small towns where most PWT's are held, there aint now way in heck you can make the weigh in short of leaving work early and taking the kids out of school.
Why do the Merc and Otter street get such a turn out? SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. Both have things for kids to do while dad watches the weigh ins. The PWT is progressing in what they are looking to do, now just need to do it on the right days. By putting more people at the weigh ins, WILL THAT INCREASE THE FAN BASE?
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 201
Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Stacker I think by getting more people at the weigh-ins it will increase the fan base. That in turn will help get more sponsorship dollars for both the tours and the fisherman.
I don't think putting the tournament back on the weekends will help, it will cause more friction betweent the weekend anglers and the pro's, both on the water and at the launches.
Last year the PWT had the super pro weigh-ins later in the day. I don't know if that helped increase turn outs at the weigh-ins or not. Steve could probably comment on that.
From what I have seen at the weigh-ins, Winneconne draws the most spectators. And that is with very little promotion. There have been some very good ideas that have come out of this post.
I for one would stay after one day of the weigh-ins to talk to people, but, I am not one of the big names. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| " think that you will need better ideas than those expressed to quantify the idea of not having the last day on saturday. Obviously the PWT is trying to grow the crowds as they have put climbing walls and dog jumps and a whole slew of family related stuff at the weigh ins to draw people. The only part they forgot was kids are in school till 315 and the weighs are designed to end by 5pm. Unless you live in the small towns where most PWT's are held, there aint now way in heck you can make the weigh in short of leaving work early and taking the kids out of school."
That's unpossible!!!
It seems like a simple idea, Cabela's National Team Championship, a two day tournament that runs friday saturday. They seem to go out of their way to couple this event with some community event at the same time. I would imagine most would scream "logistics nightmare", but they pull it off. And it appears to go over big. The weigh in is cool, there's plenty for the family to do, side events, vendor displays, live music each night. It's aimed at the family atmosphere with the fishermen's family and "vacation" in mind. It's for the weekend fisherman, much like Merc. Nat's is for the weekend fisherman and thier family, and is arguably the best turn out in all of walleye fishing.
Nobody knows the financials of such an event, yet I highly doubt Cabela's does it to break even.
Why wouldn't the PWT or FLW want to borrow this "template" to develop fan base? Or is it a matter of some ego's that are too afraid that their beloved sport may appear as a side show to a circus? I don't understand it.
Having participated at a Cabela's National Team Championship and having attended Professional Golf Assoc Tournaments. Cabela's is the closest to duplicate such an environment. It is by far the biggest show I've seen yet in Walleye fishing. Thus I'll continue to support Cabela's. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1656
| Eric, Next time you're in town give me a "ring". I'd be happy to listen to any PWT pro that's willing to talk. I'll even spring for your favorite refreshment. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Sorry Shink, but cannot help to believe that it could not help a weigh ins attendance by having it on saturday instead of friday. It could certainly help the fan base.
I do agree with Jayman that the NTC show is remarkable. I have fished several and not had a problem with locals. They hype this so much that everyone in these communities want to see whats happening. When in DuBuque it was like walking into Packers stadium, it was packed, people everywhere when you walked on stage, over 2,000. I would guess. I am sure it would bring the fan base up. When in Milford I was interviewed 2 times for tv and 1 time for a newspaper. I never did see if I was in either but I can tell you that there were billboards and something on the TV every night regarding the event. In duBuque there had to be 100 plus people who came down before work on friday to watch us leave.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 201
Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | Stacker, I totally agree that it would help with attendance, having a weigh-in on one or both days of the weekend. I was commenting on the problems I would think they would have with another 120 or 150 boats out on the water on the weekend.
I haven't been to a FLW weigh-in on the Weekend, but my take on the lack of attendance is, there are only 10 guys out there fishing. And the majority of the time they are not all the big names.
As a fan of the sport, wouldn't you want to come and see all the big names you could. Let's take the PWT for example. Wouldn't you want to come see the Parson's, Kavajecz, Roach, Fairbairn, I could go on and on. If the PWT would do like the FLW, and only have 10 guys fishing the last day, that included myself and 7 other no name guys with 2 big names they wouldn't draw a big crowd either. I think that is why you don't see the big crowds at the final day weigh-ins in the FLW.
Having the weigh-ins start later in the day will draw bigger crowds, plus add sat. being the final day will bring in the people.
Just my opinion, I have been known to be wrong one other time.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Rhinelander | Jayman,
Please be very careful to structure your words so no one misunderstands your comments to be an attack or bash, that's outside of our posting permissions.
Look at your last long post, no one's 'ego' has a thing to do with the structure of the current Pro events. Have either you or Stacker been to a PWT or FLW Championship? I was at the PWT Championship in ND last year, and the crowds were in the couple thousand range. Same with the year before. A sports show, plenty of things for family and kids to do, and big crowds. Plenty of media at the weigh ins, and lots of morning coverage. Sound familiar?
The FLW 2006 Championship was held in a huge tent. Yes, they had a festival, and lots of things for the kids and family to do. The crowd was smaller, but the tent was FULL. As I said, the FLW sets the stage and program to accommodate the TV coverage shot by Lindner Media. The Show is spectacular with lots of lights, music,etc., as is the stage show at the PWT Championship. But the feature is the weigh in, all the way.
I shot images of the front page of local newspapers with full color coverage of both Championships. Local and regional TV had clips throughout the week. If all the events had the flash and play of the Championships, I'd bet that would make some folks happier, but then why would anyone refer to the Championship as 'The Show'?
Cabelas hosts that one big event per year. I bet they don't 'make money' on it, it's a HUGE promotion all year long and finally onsite for their retail stores, and advertises their commitment to competitive Walleye angling. I'm betting that event is a multiple line item on the budget sheet for advertising/promotion. |
|
| |
|
| I don't believe you can compare the NTC to The Tours.
In the NTC you have 400 anglers fishing the biggest event they will probably ever fish in their life. It's such a big deal to most of the anglers that they bring their entire family along. I would bet that the majority of that crowd is made up of those family members.
Also, it is a one shot deal for Cabelas. Compare that show to the FLW or PWT Championship and I think you will find them very comparable. The only difference is that the crowd at a PWT Championship is comprised of more true walleye fans versus family members on a vacation. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 1406
| Don't forget that for the most part I would bet that the majority of fans at every event is friends and family members of the competitors, Well maybe not the majority but It has to be close to 50%. I like the Wed-Fri format of the PWT although weigh ins could be an hour or two later to accomodate the fans.
How can you say that the NTC breaks even? How many of their vendors put up product or offer other incentives, how much revenue do you think is brought in because they have this event? As well the Merc Nats and Otterstreet, all make money at this! I'm sure there are some struggling as they seem to come and go but don't tell me they do it for the fun of it!
The Bass Federation I believe recieved over 2 million dollars this year to build their new circuit and have their Local/Regional events. We all know Irwin doesn't sell enough Rangers to pay for this, It would be interesting to know how much Walmart CEO Lee Scott gave him towards this.
"AT A recent retail-industry convention, Wal-Mart's boss, Lee Scott, was asked whether his firm was trying to take over the world. I don't think so, Mr Scott replied with a smile on his face. All we want to do is grow.”…
I thought this quote fits well with the topic!
Good Luck
Tyee |
|
| |
