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| Message Subject: New idea! | |||
Rich S |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | I had a thought the other day and just wanted to run it by everyone. How about having a tournament and at the start of the rules meeting, sell 50/50 raffle tickets. At the end of the rules meeting, give away the 50% and put the rest in the payout for the tournament. I don't see why the "man" would have any problems with that and I think it would be a great way to increase the payouts without raising the entry fee. It would not be manditory and one could buy as many tickets as he wanted. From all the 50/50's that I have been involved in, they were always a big hit. What do you think? | ||
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| Mr. Darboy |
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Member Posts: 514 Location: Darboy USA | I like it Rich. As long as they wouldn't have to pay for get some type of "license" for having a raffle I don't see why they would mind, they could even keep some of the 50% for themselves as far as I'm concerned. Maybe split up the other 50% into 25% to the fisherman and 25% to the organization. Maybe Jim will see this and let us know his thoughts for the MWS events? | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Rich, Not a bad idea, how about puttin the money back into the community though instead of towards the winner, they already have the big fish pot............ Now you got me thinkin......... if you see me around the rules meeting selling tickets for a 50/50 raffle, you can be assured I will only use half of the procedes to cover my entry fee and the rest I will donate to a good cause like rehab for my crank bait addiction or worm food for the CWA (which by the way should be starting soon!) Seriously though good Idea! Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 3/10/2008 11:14 AM | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Why would anyone get in a 50/50 so the director can make more money? Why would we get in a 50/50 to give more money to the community in which we are fishing, after spending money in there communities that week? I liked the idea when Rich brought it up at the Ice Breaker this past weekend. I will be doing some checking on this. I think It could be used for many circuits to help increase the payouts. I like it. | ||
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| Jim Coon |
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Member Posts: 499 Location: Appleton | You would need a raffle lic. Someone would have to apply for this and I'm not sure if an individual can apply. There is a fee and there are different raffle lic depending on the type of raffle. This would have to be seperate from the tournament and tournament payout otherwise the organizer would have to pay taxes even if it is all paid out. Good idea Rich just not sure it can be worked out. Thanks Jim Coon | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Do you really NOT know why you need to be giveing back as an organization? Consider community, as local, charity, youth, education and on and on you pick one it should be obvious as to why! Heck if you want larger payouts raise the entry fee, we all know tournament organizers aren't gettin rich! Good luck Tyee Edited by tyee 3/10/2008 12:24 PM | ||
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| butch |
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Member Posts: 701 Location: upper michigan | You would need a raffle lic. Someone would have to apply for this and I'm not sure if an individual can apply. There is a fee and there are different raffle lic depending on the type of raffle. This would have to be seperate from the tournament and tournament payout otherwise the organizer would have to pay taxes even if it is all paid out. Good idea Rich just not sure it can be worked out.
Jim if i remember corectly a 50/50 drawing at the past mws events I atended and I think it was run by the fisherman for the fisherman. what if the other 50% was donated by the fisherman for the payout.
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | tyee - 3/10/2008 12:20 PM Do you really NOT know why you need to be giveing back as an organization? Consider community, as local, charity, youth, education and on and on you pick one it should be obvious as to why! Heck if you want larger payouts raise the entry fee, we all know tournament organizers aren't gettin rich! Good luck Tyee Butch, good point. Do we know if the FLW League gets a raffle license when they raffle the prizes off at each of the events? If so, it must not be that tough to get one. Tyee, why do you feel the need to answer in that manner? Why should we do something thats intent was to increasing payout, and instead, take the money and donate to yet another group. In a blatant non-politically correct way I will ask you this, This was not a idea that was brought forth to give away monies to yet another group of people who did not lift a finger to earn it. But a way that directors could help the fisherman. I ask again, why should we give it away? I work with youth groups in my community. I spend many hours doing this. We would not expect anyone to just give us money. The people who do expect it, well, I will leave it at that. Good luck to you also Tyee. Denny | ||
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| Rich S |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | Thanks for replying Jim. I was not sure on that one as I have never organized a raffle myself. It was just an idea I had while "reading the paper". Thanks for the input guys! | ||
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| Jim Coon |
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Member Posts: 499 Location: Appleton | The raffle we run 50% goes to Walleys for Topmorrow and we use the WFT raffle lic. number. If a raffle for the anglers and payout increase this would not fall under Walleyes for Tomorrows. I am sure this would require a raffle number and I'm not sure if this would fall under any of the guidelines set up by the state. There are many different specific guidelines to the type of raffle lic you would need | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Thanks Jim, A raffle falls under the guidelines of gambling. Raffle license are usually given to charitable organizations. If your looking for more profit or higher payouts you should just up the registration fees. Denny I didn't mean to attack your charitable contributions but rather point out that tournament organizations could use this 50/50 method to better present their organization to the community in a more favorable manner with this type of an activity. Here's your link to the rules and lic. info. I have participated in many where the funds go towards youth programs and they are recieved well by the public and often very effective. No one ever "expects" charitable contributions, it's the kindness in ones heart that makes these "gifts" valuable. I'll gladly buy one if I know the monies are being used in that manner! You'd have to check into what the 50% earned could be used for or whom it could be paid to, possibly the winner? http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/stat0563.pdf Good Luck Tyee Edited by tyee 3/10/2008 2:37 PM | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Thanks Tyee, I believe you are correct in that the monies are recieved well by the charitable groups. HOWEVER, I do not understand why I need to give back to the communities that host these events, in such a manner as cash from a 50/50. Did I not do my part by spending money in there community? They did not give me more money in my payouts that make me believe I owe them something. I did not take something that they own home with me that I should have to pay for, did I? Was I illegal to the state while I was there and I have fines to pay? I really am not trying to be the smart a$$ but tourneys are not new to the world. The cities know the economical impact 100 boats coming to there town does for them. They are not country folks who don't know what 2 bits is. I believe the idea made public by Rich was to add a bit more excitment to the event without requiring anyone to have to pay more. Just raising the entry will not guarantee a bigger payout, it may decrease it simply because less boats get in. It certainly increases more problems associated with money. Have a great day!! | ||
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| STINGER(WI) |
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Member Posts: 201 Location: Colgate, WI | Great idea Rich! I would like to see it go towards a scholarship program for kids or to buy fishing equipment to give away to the kids. They are our sports future and if we don't do something to keep them interested it will all be lost. I don't like the idea of putting the other half into the tourney payout. You can even sell them to spectators at the event and have the drawing before the weigh-in, that way you will have more of a crowd and welcome fan participation. We did this in Northern Wisconsin with success. Just a thought. | ||
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| butch |
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Member Posts: 701 Location: upper michigan | thanks for clarifing that Jim I would not want to take away from walleye's for tomorow. I do think this is a good idea but not if it takes away from something else that is doing so many good things. | ||
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| RedNeckTech |
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Member Posts: 319 | This is a good idea and I must agree with Tyee about giving back to the community. As with buisness, community relations is the best investment you can make. Just by stating that 100 boats on the water is enough to inject into the community may be true for some places, however, there are plenty of others that would not see anything major as far as revenue coming in from the tournament. You must consider that in most places the people whom own the water front property are usually the loudest shakers and movers in the community, they pay the most taxes and in many cases have formed a organization of lake property owners. There are a lot of these that also raise their own funds to help keep the fish stocked in the lake. | ||
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| Rich S |
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Member Posts: 2300 Location: Berlin | Just to clarify, the original idea stemmed from the need to have higher payouts without increasing the entry fee. Expenses are going through the roof and we need to come up with ways to make it easier on the tournament angler's pocket books. I feel if things keep going the way they are, only the rich will be able to enjoy this sport. Think of the impact this will have on our communities if there are no more tournaments? Something needs to be done and this was an idea that would bring a lot more money into the payouts without raising the entry. I had no intention of selling tickets to the general public in my original thought. Now that it has been brought up, I think you guys are on to something. You could sell tickets to the anglers before the rules meeting and to the public just before the weigh-ins. After the weigh-in is over, draw the winner and donate the other 50% to a non-profitable of your choice. Advertise this raffle to the general public. I think the average Joe blow public does not realize the positives that tournaments have and this would be a way to draw something out into the open for all to see. With that being said, we still have a issue that has no easy solution. Get more money into the payouts, get the entry fee's down and get the expenses down. From everyone that I have been talking to, it sounds like participation is (will be) down this year and I think this is the start of a trend. We need to put our heads together to find a solution. THIS is what got me thinking the other day. | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | As alot of you know, I am in the publics eye at my job. Can you even imagine how many raffle tickets I could buy a year from our customers? Last year I lost count but am sure I was offered from at least 200 people. Think about that for 1 min before you answer. Every single one of them tickets was for a good, non-profit club, helping kids and lakes and birds and deer and turkeys and....... Because I cannot spend 5 to 7500 a year on tickets I try to refrain from buying or selling any tickets. This way I don't owe someone, and they don'y owe me. I am the president of our local Youth Football league. We run 50/50 raffles with 500 to 700 people in attendance through 3 games on a saturday. We normally get 250 to 350 dollars in that pot, that needs to be split. Nice little something something to help the program. If you want to run a scolarship fund with the funds from the tourneys, someone needs to head this up, WHO wants the job? Not me. After spending a few hundred bucks in some ones town then getting asked to buy 50/50 tickets to support there kids or something, well, I doubt I would buy any. This is a good idea and I will be looking hard at it. If I showed up at a tourney and they were doing it the way rich intended it to be, I would spend money, As I just might get a chance at some of the extras tomarrow. If it was set up at a table, the general public could buy as well if they would like. However, there are never to many of them at a rules meeting. Running it the day of the event,well, directors have enough to do. OK, I have said my peace. | ||
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| bradley894 |
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Member Posts: 591 Location: in the boat off the east shore somewhere | not to get greedy but i would say if your gonna get a permit for the rafffl an 80/20 and an extra 20 dollar bill would be no prob for me ... 50/50 is nice but i would say you would come up with double the participants if you made it an 80/20 make sure there is a cut for the directors miscilanius expenses , clubs helping out with the tournament ect... remember 20% of 100 people is more than 50% or 20 people buying tickets... also i would involve the spectators let them throw there name in too! pick there team and put a 20 on it ... or use the hat... whatever.. the idia is to make a larger donation to walleyes for tommorrow or what ever .. this will help when looking for weigh in help and release boats and cut the overhead of tournament staff.. good things to think about .. the angler has a choice to enter or not.. and the chairity money goes back to the places that can make a diference on our local water.. lets face it .. the money comming off of the top for THE MAN is most likely not going to be focussed the waters being fished , most will be lost in the budget and administrative levels ... it is my belief that take winnibago for instance.. we owe much of the credit with the populations of nice fish in that lake to wft and though the state decision to let us keep the smaller eaters(males) no size limmit has created an awsum population of eyes we have also had some great year class spawns the last 8 years... lets not stop the support but being able to direct the funds to the folks that make the dif is a nice option... i would love buy a ticket.. i also pay plenty of taxes and plenty of gas and local taxes where i fish... the state is getting a plenty big % of my tournament expenses already... a bit bitter yes but our pockets arent always as deep as one would think when they see us drive by with a washed up pickup and a sparkly boat behind it ... never mind the pickup has 140 k miles and the boat costs about 500 dollars a month in payments or depretiation... 50/50 60/40 80/20 as long as it makes sence im in... but dont mandate it . anglers option . KNOW what would be MORE FUN? a 40/40/20 have every team who participates pick another team out of the hat... pay out the top 5 places if you finish in the top 5 you get 40% along with the team that picked your team out of the hat... with 20 going to charity of choice ... i think the participants would have more fun , there would be more people hanging around eating brats and burgers, having a cold beer... more storys and fun for all... let remember comming out ahead in a tournament no matter what the entry fee is rare , you can rase the fees all you want ... doesnt matter ... most are looking to have fun make friends braggin rights and some good stories ... if it it gives a half dosen teams a little steak money for the ride home and a good reason to hang around and talk smart good day or bad i would look forward to the stories before and after talking about what team they drew and how they faired...
Edited by bradley894 3/11/2008 9:39 AM | ||
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| eye Lunker |
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Member Posts: 859 Location: Appleton wi | I couldnt agree more with all stackers post here! Its a nice thought of giving to the commnunity but with today cost of fishing why not just give back to the participants. I am sure i am not the only one who gives to united way ,red cross,school sponsered programms for kids,local charity raffles,sheriff dept locally and i sure i missed a few my wife gives to also! Edited by eye Lunker 3/11/2008 9:54 AM | ||
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| tyee |
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Member Posts: 1406 | Denny your right, running a raffle is a lot harder than it looks, the tickets, proper regulations printed on them the accounting the 1099's to be distributed (if necessary) the holding of the tickets for 1 year after the drawing and solving any disputes that may arise are all time consuming issues. It's not as easy as it sounds. Not that it isn't a good idea as intended, you would be better off promoting it as a charity event and giving more to the immediate community, the procedes could be given to the winner or split amoung many winners to get around the 1099 issue. Heck I like to get in on 50/50 raffles mainly because you have a large prize to a single winner and the other half goes to a charitable organization. another write off for the participants. I would be more apt to buy a 30-40 or 50 dollar ticket if I knew half the money was going towards youth fishing programs, or such. and there was something in it for me! Rich, has a novel idea and should run with it. How you diseminate the monies will determine the participation level. Good Luck Tyee | ||
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| stacker |
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Member Posts: 2445 Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Rod, have a great day!! Keep them monies running into the charties, I allready give as much as I am gonna and it wont be added to with a 50/50 from the tournaments. The non-profits will thank guys like you that are always looking out for them. | ||
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| BIG MONEY BONUS |
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| If you want to up the payout without driving out the regular joes, set up a side or bonus pot for the "big shooters." It would be interesting to see how many joes jump in when they are thinking they are on the big fish and how many big shooters are suckers with money to burn. Some events a lot of people would get in others not, either case you could set up a good argument to throw some extra money into the "Big Money Bonus," pot. | |||
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