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| Is everyone aware the Coast Guard is going to require anyone who guides on navigable waters to have a "Six Pack" license, TWIC card and CPR training. Navigable waters include Mille Lacs, Winnie, Leech, Pokegema, border waters, along with the Mississippi, and St. Croix rivers. |
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| No to going to require. It's required now! Just like the Bago Chain, WI River, Green Bay, and some other systems in WI.
Edited by Shep 1/27/2010 12:40 PM
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| Your absolutely right, just has never been enforced before. The issue is going to affect a lot of guides here in Minnesota. From what I understand the Coast Guard use to be under the DOT and is now under Homeland Security. They are stepping up their enforcement. |
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| Not so new.
They made all of us charter ("launch") guides on Winnie and Leech get the licensed way back in '72 or '73. Most of us hauled more than 6 and had to get the ful blown Coast Guard Captain's License. The Coast Guard (from Duluth) came and inspected our vessels for safety and waste compliance every spring before opening day. |
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| Sorry-
"guest" above...was me. For some reason I can't log in...? |
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| Actually, this was never required in most of Mn. waters until now. And there still could be changes in the near future in this regard. The recent "Clean Water Act" passed in congress re-classified Mn. waters to include or add many NEW waters to the old law, which Terry refers to on the likes of Winnie. Mille Lacs was never officially considered under Coast Guard scrutiny, as one example. Only waters directly related to the Mississippi were. Now the word directly has been re-defined I guess. And might be again in the near future if enforemnt issues can't be resolved, as they stand now. Nobody is stepping up with the time and manpower to do just that in ALL of these new waters--as of now.
Although I think it(the license) doesn't need to be as complex when covering guides, I won't argue against it. I look forward to how the Coast Guard treats the "party boat" pilots on Mille Lacs this year. Most of which, I assume, will not meet this new requirement. But in fact, take even more passengers than the old "6-pack" license covers(20 to 40 passengers is common). My guess, this is a story still brewing in the early stages of a big story in a few months as resorts find themselves scrambling to fit the bill.
Steve Fellegy
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Location: Appleton wi | Steve very doubtfull anyone will see the coast guard on the above waters, here in wisconsin all the new requirements that occured few years back i have yet to see the coast guard out winnabago system and its connected waters so just saying dont expect to be seeing anything other than you sheriffs, Dnr out patrolling. long live hooters party boat!lol |
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Location: Menasha, WI | Ritch, I've seen the Coasties on Winnebago. They make a token patrol a couple of weekends a year and also patrol the seaplane landing zone during EAA week. Steve, There hasn't been any recent legislation updating/altering the CWA. The authority defining 'the waters of the United States' was established in the early 1970s with the Federal Waters Pollution Control Act. Specifically, The term "navigable waters" of the United States means "navigable waters" as defined in section 502(7) of the FWPCA, and includes: (1) all navigable waters of the United States, as defined in judicial decisions prior to the passage of the 1972 Amendments of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act, (FWPCA) (Pub. L. 92-500) also known as the Clean Water Act (CWA), and tributaries of such waters as; (2) interstate waters; (3) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams which are utilized by interstate travelers for recreational or other purposes; and (4) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams from which fish or shellfish are taken and sold in interstate commerce. As NPAA #105 states above, the new enforcement is the result of the shift of the USCG from the USDOT to Homeland Security under the Homeland Security Act of 2002.
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| I respectfully disagree! Over the past 40 plus years, I have dealt, personally, with every division of our State anf Federal Government that has enforcement power on Mille Lacs, for one example. NO WHERE has Mille lacs been under Federal listings in ANY division except the Corp of Engineers. In recent years, the Mn. Dept. of Labor HIRED the Coast Guard Auxiliary to do boat inspections here each spring, on the boats "carrying pasengers for hire over 20ft. long". They had ZERO enforcement or involvment when it came to licensing us, the pilots. Obviously, we asked every which way we could--for years--knowing that the border waters and Leech Lake/Winnie "launch pilots" had to have Coast Guard licenses to do the same job. Their reasoning for not having enforcement ability? " Mille lacs is NOT our water".
The copy you post is now outdated and been ammended to cover the recent Homeland Security wants and needs to be more widespread. Read the defining words you post--"(3) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams which are utilized by interstate travelers for recreational or other purposes; and (4) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams from which fish or shellfish are taken and sold in interstate commerce" None of the now included lakes such as Mille Lacs were ever used by "INTERSTATE TRAVELERS" or for "INTERSTATE COMMERCE" regarding fish that lived in them.
In fact, I was told this history again, by Coast Guard personel, about two weeks ago.
If I'm wrong, I surely will be corrected and pass it along, after I have a scheduled meeting with the key people on this matter in Duluth this coming week.
Does anyone think or believe that T-Mac, as one of dozens of "6 pack" licensed guides on Winnie and Leech and LOW, would have sat back and watched his/their Mille Lacs competition take potential customers from them, and NOT have to be licensed? lol I know Terry better than THAT!
Steve Fellegy
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | All I can say, amazingly, is that all this talk, etc. about guides in Mn., (even on Leech and Winnie) has ZERO merit. You simply do NOT have to have ANY Coast Guard license on Mille Lacs, Winnie or Leech or many/MOST waters that have been mentioned in past writings.
Do your homework. ALL the info is available. Modern day ruels are modern day...not based on 100 year old classifications.
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Even though I spelled "rules" wrong lol, I am confident I have the correct info in hand. On paper. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Okay, after dealing with the St. Paul station and more with the Duluth station today, I have some details....some being different than I posted the past day or so.
1. The dividing line for the 8th and 9th district is latitude 46.20.000 (includes Mille Lacs waters)
2. From the 8th AND 9th district--at this time Mille Lacs is NOT Federal waters and will not require Coast Guard licenses and or TWIC card.
3. In fact, Winnie, Gull Lake, Leech, Lake Bemidgi and Cass are on the Fedral waters list and still do need Coast Guard licenses. (so I was told wrongly and shown an incomplete map yesterday)
4. It IS predicted, that Mille Lacs will become Federal waters, therefore requiring Coast Guard licensing, sometime in the future(maybe late 2010)
So--I stand corrected on some fronts, no doubt. BUT! At this stage of the game and surely for the upcoming fishing season, Mille Lacs is NOT under Coast Guard rule in any form or fashion. Gull Lake guides, for example, WILL need to start the process.....
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | All the diggin the past few days has led to this:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/83603337.html?elr=KArksi... |
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| What's next. They want us to licence our boats according to the FWSA. License them in the county of the state that you primarily use it in. Let the state you live in utilize the fees from licensing, for what ever. |
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Location: Rhinelander | Most of the enforcement issues you see are an extension of the changes in our government since 9/11.
Not a bad thing to take the course, but the cost is high, IMO.
Taxes, taxes, taxes....fishing and boating are under siege. |
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Location: mille lacs, mn. | Sam Cook, Duluth News Tribune
The ongoing saga of Coast Guard licensing requirements for inland Minnesota fishing guides continues, but some issues are becoming clearer.
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources officials met with a Coast Guard working group about 10 days ago, and the DNR hopes to offer concrete guidelines to fishing guides and other Minnesota boaters who carry passengers for hire within about a week, Bob Meier, DNR assistant commissioner, said this week.
“We’ll be issuing a fact sheet so these guys can have an understanding of what they need and how to get it,” Meier said.
Beginning last summer, the Coast Guard indicated it would begin enforcing the requirement that any boater carrying up to six passengers for hire would need a “six-pack” license, formally known as an Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessels license. The licenses have long been required of charter fishing captains on Lake Superior and the St. Louis River, but until last summer, the Coast Guard had not enforced the requirement on most inland waters considered federally navigable.
That license typically requires up to a week of classroom instruction. That and other requirements of the license can put its cost at about $1,200.
But Meier said the Coast Guard is considering allowing fishing guides and others carrying passengers for hire on inland waters to operate with a restricted license of some sort. Lt. Dave French, external affairs officer with the Coast Guard in Cleveland, confirmed that on Thursday.
“We’re looking at developing a restricted license for inland waters,” French said. “At this point, we don’t have that yet.”
And don’t look for it soon, Meier said. He anticipates the Coast Guard’s final decision on this matter will come in “months rather than weeks.”
The DNR has no jurisdiction in this issue.
“We’re caught in the middle,” Meier said. “We’re just trying to help our guides.”
It’s unlikely any change in licensing requirement would take effect before 2011. Meanwhile, French said, the Coast Guard will not enforce the “six-pack” license requirement for inland guides.
“Our general approach for this year is education and outreach rather than penalties,” French said. “We’re not looking to impact this season. We’re looking at helping them [guides] gain compliance once we’ve decided what form of credential we’ll be using.”
In the meantime, Meier said, guides should start the process of getting a TWIC (Transportation Worker Identification Credential) card, which is a port security clearance. The cards are available from the U.S. Coast Guard station in Duluth and cost about $100.
Obtaining the card requires two trips, one to apply for the card and another to pick it up a couple of weeks later.
Second, a guide should pay the initial registration fee for a Coast Guard OUPV license, Meier said, a cost of about $145.
“Our understanding is that once you’re in the process of getting your TWIC card and you’ve paid your registration fee for a license, they [the Coast Guard] will consider you in compliance,” Meier said.
“That’s what I’m going to do,” said Grand Rapids fishing guide Tom Neustrom, who has followed the issue closely and testified at the Minnesota Legislature. “I’m going to get my TWIC card.”
Eventually, guides would be required to take a physical exam and a drug test, even for a restricted license, Meier said.
Story Courtesy of www.duluthnewstribune.com
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| Interestingly enough, there WAS a restricted inland license available at one time. The USCG has since discontinued that license. |
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