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Member
Posts: 701
Location: upper michigan | A net work can be just as a big a handicap as it can be a help. You need to figure out what is best for yourself and go from there.
Edited by butch 12/12/2006 12:41 PM
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Sorry Merckid, but after nearly 100 or more tournaments in my life, I have to disagree with you 100%. I have worked both ways and found there are times when one approach works and then the other. Neither has been better than the other. This is a individual decision thing. Period. |
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Member
Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Stacker,
You can have your opinion that's fine, I'm not trying to say that you can't succeed in tournament fishing without a network, nor am I trying to persuade you to think that. What I'm saying is from my knowledge and from what I have seen. But I do think when you have groups of guys fishing together like some of the guys on the PWT/FLW they are going to be tough to beat! But by having that network to help break down a system can help you extremely, even if you don't use the knowledge that comes about from your partners, the thing is the knowledge is there when your pre-fishing for one of those tournaments where your not having a great pre-fish and thought of getting in at the end of the day and knowing well I can compare notes with my buddies is in my hubble opinion a confidence booster in itself. But again in no means am I looking to persuade your opinion, you have you'res and I have mine. Im not looking to pick an arguement here.
Edited by Merckid 12/12/2006 2:30 PM
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| Shink,
Just a general question. You mentioned you had a spot that treated you well in the Mobridge tournament. You later mentioned you did your home work for the event which included prefishing a day with a local angler. I'm just curious if the local angler helped you find that spot/pattern. Not trying to start anything here just curious.
Thanks
TJ
Editors Note:
This is NOT Merckid. Just trying to avoid possible confusion. |
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| You guys are NUTS if you don't think these "good" teams know where every other team or good stick is pre-fishing. EVERY good team knows where and how all the best competition is doing, in fact thats how many guys do their pre-fishing from the start! MANY guys don't have a clue how to find fish, they know how to find fishermen! Don't act like it's some secert or you have an "up" on people because you are confident, the best of the best always seem to have the same spots as the guys who end up winning or are in that top area, they know from the start where and who's on fish. |
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Member
Posts: 701
Location: upper michigan | typical unlogged slam |
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Member
Posts: 1406
| ah yes butch but he's most likely a regular that you know!
Good Luck
Tyee |
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Member
Posts: 794
Location: Elgin, Illinois | I'm fishing against the fish... They are the toughest competition out there... |
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Member
Posts: 1040
Location: Stevens Point, WI | For those of you thinking why would anyone ask a question like the one Guest-TJ did? All I can say is that is not me that asked that question! |
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Member
Posts: 12
| HERE IS THE QUESTION. after you figure out what you think the winning weight will be . do you fish for fish you think it will take to win or do you fish in a spot that you feal will give you the best catch . do i go to a place that with luck i can catch 5 large fish or do i go to a place where i know i can catch 5 medium fish but i dont think i can win with that catch. or can i ? or do i go to the place and catch 3 med fish and 2 small fish and then go to the place to see if i can catch big fish. what if i only catch 2 big fish and get my but kicked becouse i only needed 5 med fish per day to win.??? wher do i go?
CONFIDENCE . IM CONFIDENT , I THINK, ? DAMN NOW ITS 3 AM AND IM STILL NOT ASLEEP IM JUST TOO TIRED TO WORY ABOUT IT. /// havta get up at 5 am to fish this tourny, guess ill decide when the gun goes off. remember when the green flag drops the bull*** stops |
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| guest - 12/12/2006 5:57 PM
You guys are NUTS if you don't think these "good" teams know where every other team or good stick is pre-fishing. EVERY good team knows where and how all the best competition is doing, in fact thats how many guys do their pre-fishing from the start! MANY guys don't have a clue how to find fish, they know how to find fishermen! Don't act like it's some secert or you have an "up" on people because you are confident, the best of the best always seem to have the same spots as the guys who end up winning or are in that top area, they know from the start where and who's on fish.
couldnt have said it any better
Thank you |
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Member
Posts: 2393
Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Now I think the guest is talking to himself. |
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| No I'm not responding to myself, I know the game and how it's played. In years of tour fishing it's not that hard to figure out whats going on. Many a angler are good at finding the fishermen on fish and then catching them. On the flip side they could'nt find fish (the ones it takes to be competitive).
It's not like I'm the 1st to ever say this. People don't want to hear the truth, their hero's somehow just don't seem as speical. The closer it gets to game time the more and more boats you see "hunting", not for fish mind you, but fishermen! It's easy to see, you never see them pre-fishing, but you see them during the game!
The best teams do have "scouts", these are the guys sent out to "look". These guys return to the group with everyone's spots and what they are doing. Is this right? I don't know, but please don't sit here and try to fool everyone about how you have some edge mentally over the comptetition. If you can catch fish you can catch fish, but if you can find fish "expect company" because they will find you! |
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | Guest, even addressing you is stupid, but here goes. Please identify yourself and who the scouts are for what team, so we may all watch out for them. If you stand behind the curtain, your words sound just like a turd hitting the punch bowl, SPLASH!!, its just stinks it up for everybody. So, instead of stinking it up, identify yourself and the loser who will be doing this so we all can be better prepared. Thanks Man!! |
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Member
Posts: 701
Location: upper michigan | dont you just love it when someone hi jacks a good thread and turns it into something like this. |
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| Not many if any of the top pro's will post anything om any site. there's so many young guns like most of you that just fish small tourneys,which is great,but when your talking the pwt and the flw that's a entire new ball game boys. there's only a very few guys that can afford to fish the pwt and flw year after year,and you must fish yr after yr pay your dues,hook-up with the right network of pro's,spend lot's of money,it's a very expensive hobby.but if you can afford it do it.but i think most of you will continue to fish the smaller tourneys and stay amatuer statis. good luck to all in 2007. |
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Member
Posts: 2680
Location: Essexville, MI./Saginaw Bay. | Here's my spin on confidence and the part it plays in tournaments, even though I don't fish them anymore..
Unlike professional Golf, where everybody plays the same holes. Professional Bowling, where competitors bowl on the same lanes, and so on and so on. Fishing is quit a different game indeed. In my view 75% of all fishing is finding and being on the fish. Seems it was no accident in the 2006 PWT championship, that Kemo's and Kavajecz (1st and 2nd place) were daily fishing in eye site of each other, 70 miles from the ramp and almost into another state.
In those conditions on the Missouri river, low water, new and different islands popping up daily, needing 80 gallons of gas on board, not too mention the custom modifications made to carry this gas to make the run both ways, along with the boat and engine power plant needed to make such a run, kinda thinned the playing field right from the start. Those are all big obstacles to overcome and (make or break) decisions to make if and when your rig is bought and paid for by you and not your sponsors. And my purpose here isn't to insult or insinuate that having all this refinement is cheating.
But the playing field become skewed when good fishermen can't or won't risk everything to get to where the bigger, more receptive fish are. This then becomes part of the strategy (and yes the confidence) with the guys in the bigger networks, when having both the knowledge and the means to accomplish all this becomes key. And with all these refinments needed and their limitations factored in, it just might break down any confidence others without them have, when risking a lot more then just his fishing skills over another.
I'm personally confident I could keep up with anybody when fishing side by side (as they did) on most bodies of water. I'm not to confident I could/would rig or risk my boat, gear and life for the 70 mile one way trip to try to do so. If this puts me out of the professional fishing playing field or lessens my respect as a confident fisherman, so be it.
Edited by walleye express 12/13/2006 9:52 AM
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Location: Rhinelander | Interesting debate.
I attend quite a few Walleye tournaments each year, and observe the teamwork, individual efforts, and combination of the two that is the real deal.
Knowledge is power, and power is confidence. Skill is a given for most, or the game would already be lost. Poor skills means building them through observation and experience, and confidence will come.
Knowing where the fish are (even those you have no intention to fish on Game Day), where your competition is and why, what presentations are working and which are not, and then calculating the risks of attempting to use any out of the pack information ( especially last minute) to alter the team game plan is part and parcel of professional walleye angling. Those who are extremely confident are less likely to alter a game plan.
Good teams do shine. But not always, sometimes others are better organized, learned a few things they were able to keep out of the general information flow, or have special skills that exceed those of the competition at that event.
Of COURSE there will be some tailpiping and you better believe everyone tries to find out what the hot sticks are doing. Nature of the game. Those that give in to the pressure or executed a failed plan sometimes feel they have to go where there is action and do the best they can to pick off some stragglers and perhaps salvage a decent finish, in that case I'd say the confidence level for that Pro at that event is in the tank. If they excessively crowd those who were there first, the repercussions are what they will be, a calculated risk some would never take and others will take as a matter of course. These are PEOPLE fishing here, so you will get a representative sample, folks will be folks. These are big boys and girls, smart people and extreme competitors--no one needs to accuse anyone or 'tell on' anyone, they see each other EVERY day during each event. .
The Game is the Game, at any level. It's just way more public when it's the Big Game. Confidence is bred from skill, knowledge, and mental toughness. All will make for a tough competitor, and you'll see that Pro getting a check onstage now and again. |
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| stacker - 12/13/2006 9:13 AM
Guest, even addressing you is stupid, but here goes. Please identify yourself and who the scouts are for what team, so we may all watch out for them. If you stand behind the curtain, your words sound just like a turd hitting the punch bowl, SPLASH!!, its just stinks it up for everybody. So, instead of stinking it up, identify yourself and the loser who will be doing this so we all can be better prepared. Thanks Man!!
Stacker
I am talking about "tours" here, not thw weekend warrior fishing a local event. It's not hard for every angler fishing home waters to be confident, heck you spend most of your fishing time fishing that water, of course you have confidence! You can only know what happens on the real Tours if you fish them (and I'm not talking one on your home waters) I'm talking about then whole years worth on waters you may see 1 to 2 times a year or sometimes 1 to 2 times ever. So rip someone who "knows", all you want, but it would'nt take you long to figure this out if you were doing it! There isn't a team out there that dos'nt play the game, you can't judge what you have going without knowing what everyone else has going. If what you have going isn't good enough (some) have liitle to no problem making the move to what is going to get it done.
Confident to me is the guy that you hand a map to and say go get umm. The guy that can do this on any body of water is the "man". But even you can realize that the "man" are few and far between. This is a "game" and people play it different when major money comes into play. This isn't the boys out fishing for the weekend for braggin rights, you don't spend 20 grand a year playing this game to earn bragging rights.
But you go a head and rip on me, because you know what happens out there from your couch, or what someone wants you to believe. |
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Member
Posts: 2445
Location: Fremont, Wisconsin | SPLASH!! I heard something from behind the curtain, AGAIN!! |
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Location: Rhinelander | HEY!! BEHAAAAAAVE!! |
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Member
Posts: 201
Location: Jackson, Wisconsin 53037 | T.J., not you Merckid. I know you wouldn't say that. The local was with me,he showed me an area on a flat that wasn't too far away from where I was. While he was pre-fishing with me, I saw on my Navionics chip that there was a steep drop right off that flat. While he was pre-fishing with me, I decided to try right on the edge of the break, right where it went from 28ft. to 40 ft. they were suspended right on that break. During the tournament I was using my ptsv and keeping it at about 32 ft. and following that plot trail.
That area was about 1 mile from takeoff. that is where the trolling pass started, each day they would move further up river.
During pre-fish, I also had some fish trolling over the trees, 30 miles from takeoff, but they were the same size fish I was catching in the other area. So it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where I would go. Get an extra hour of fishing in and stay close to takeoff.
And actually since you are asking, i found an area, right around the corner from takeoff, I was going to go there on day three, but another guy was there, and he ended up catching the biggest basket on day three from that area.
But thanks for asking, it would have been nice if you could have used your real name. I hope I answered your question. |
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| Thanks for the reply Shrink. I was just curious.
Thanks
TJ |
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Member
Posts: 6
| Mr. Darboy - 12/11/2006 11:50 AM
Good responses guys. Thanks for the insight and opinions. I agree, definitely not worth getting into the tournament scene if you don't have the inner confidence that you are the best guy on the water and can beat everybody else out there with your techniques and spots.
I've gotta disagree here. If you are looking into the tournament scene, you do not need to be the "best." Nobody is the best, and everybody is a rookie once. If you are looking to improve you game in anything, the best way is to compete against those who are better than you. I'm not sure if you currently fish tournaments or at what level. For me, I started off a few years ago with a local club with about 40 teams. I found I could get my tail kicked just fine by this group. But the experience, "networking," and ultimately some "confidence" I gained...two season's later and this year we finished in the top five. My hope is to improve even more and then consider raising the stakes in bigger leagues. Then I can get my tail kicked for a while again.
You only get once spin around this world, if there's something you love, you should go for it. |
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| Nice post, Pimp. Thanks for the perspective. I'd venture to guess that your obvious humility will be a bigger asset for you in the long run than all of the chest-thumping hubris that many try to pass off as "confidence." Good luck to ya, and see you in The Show...
Regards,
xxl |
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