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| Earlier today we received this message from the US Coast Guard out of Sturgeon Bay.
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Attached is a Marine Safety Information Bulletin (MSIB) from the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which addresses federal requirements for Coast Guard Licensing of Operators of Uninspected Passenger Vessels (OUPV). The Coast Guard has received many phone calls in the past weeks relating to OUPV licensing and regulations. Our intent is to provide the public guidance on these matters that not only clarifies who is required a license, but how one obtains it.
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We have included MS word documents in this message explaining the rules, and another document with defines the navigable waters in the State of Wisconsin.
WF
Attachments
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 NAVIGABLE WATERS.doc (25KB - 574 downloads)
MSIB-02-04.doc (224KB - 430 downloads)
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Member
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Okay 
You got my attention!
If I'm reading this correctly, They are now requiring a captains license to guide onthe Lake Winnebago Chain.
If this is correct it's news to me and it's absurd!
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| The part about an $11,000 fine is a REAL attention getter ! |
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| I had heard rumblings on this last year about Bago. Not sure how they figure this, but I'm sure things will be settled in due time.
Edited by Shep 4/7/2004 4:12 PM
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Location: Omro,Wi. | The OUPV permit is a school process,which is basic knowledge,that us as guides should know anyway.I am not sure it is such a bad thing,for the serious guide.It will keep every one not licensed from cutting in on our income.Lets face it my DOG could get a guide license from the state now.The phone numbers are not answering so I'll try again tomorrow to get all the facts.Does anyone know when this is going to go into effect? Can I continue guiding on my current state permit,or do I have to stop.These are some of the questions I hope to get answered over the phone, ASAP.Check out the link,for more info on this........hafe http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/marpers/pag/oupv2.pdf |
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Location: Omro,Wi. | double posted....sorry |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | May 1-7 Milwaukee & April 19 in Manitowoc
> World Wide Marine Training
> 866-249-2135
>
I called the Coast Guard and here is a place to take the prep course I think it cost around 750.00
Michael Dutton
Edited by irishwebs 4/7/2004 5:22 PM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Hafe,
I agree with your logic but still have a problem with some of the waterways that they listed. Captains licenses are generally for the Great Lakes. I've talked to many fellow guides and charter captains who have their license and there's always a couple of things in common in the conversation. It's generally expensive, very time consuming, difficult to pass and most of it is NOT relevant to inland boating. Questions like: If the wind is blowing so many Knots in one direction and the current is at this speed and direction, how long will it take you to get to Toledo? Or, If you're the Captain of an iron ore vessel carrying 250 tons how long will it take you to stop? Those types of questions and that type of training really will not make either one of us a better guide or boater.
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | So,
What are the options? Take the class or loose income by not being able to guide on the waters listed? I'd loose the kids inheritance if I ever got caught and fined the max. What are others thinking?
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Location: Omro,Wi. | I would say there is not much of a decision to be made.If you like taking people fishing, and want them to pay for the knowledge you have given them,then there is no choice.My guiding money is spent on things like hunting,baits,etc.Without htat extra income I would have to get permission to buy a new pole(not wanting that)I will agree that this seems to be a lot more bother than it may be worth,in my opinion it is not needed for the smaller lakes we usually guide on.....hafe
Edited by Hafe 4/7/2004 6:52 PM
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Location: sheboygan,wisconsin | If I am not mistaken oupv is your six pack license, you will have to take the course or study on your own, but not to many people pass without the course. good luck |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | Dennis
You don’t have to take the class to take the test but it is in 4 to 5 parts the class is like any type of hard core training course preps you for test and takes it. When I talked to Chief Howell of the USCG he gave me a few pointers on test and discussed that even with my Navy back ground that this class would be away for better understanding of all test factors. From what I gathered if you take the class the data base of questions is cut from 60,000 to 6,000 and more subject to knowledge need.
That is why I called this company they are holding only 2 classes in Wisconsin this year on dates I listed before. The brake down of test if you wish to study on your own email me I have the paramitors of subjects and will send that information to you. I was really thinking of doing this but after talking to my lady am I probably take a class instead.
Michael Dutton
[email protected]
Edited by irishwebs 4/7/2004 6:54 PM
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Location: Omro,Wi. | You are correct geo. I looked into this,when a friend of mine in Islamorada Fla. wanted to get me involved with his guide service down there.From what I learned a year ago,it's not a easy class either.The time is what will hurt me the most,I have only 3 vacation days left,untill next December.The rest are already scheduled for other things....hafe |
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Location: sheboygan,wisconsin | the class is a week long but if you want your license take the class, by the way who is giving the class does anyone know
ps be ready to study and pay attention it is not something you can sleep through |
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Location: Oregon, Wis | I can understand Bago but still can't figure out why they would say The Wis. River at Sauk.---Looks like guiding will involve yet another investment!---------Just wish I was made of money!---Good fishing!------Ray |
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| Winnebago has always been federal waters. Years ago you had to purchase a federal sticker for your boat. If you didn't have the sticker, you could be fined. I did see the coast guard patrolling around the Point Comfort area that year that it went into affect. Enough people complained and eventually they dropped the sticker. |
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Location: Oshkosh,WI | I have spoken with a few Lieutenants from the Coast Guard Today and have a few other people returning calls to me tomorrow. Everyone that I have talked to said that there is a law written in the books that the Winebago System is a waterway that needs a license, however, since the locks are all closed and there is no way to travel into the great lakes they have not enforced this for many years. The coast guard has more or less handed over the system to the State DNR. Both Lieutenats I spoke with told me that they would leave commercial fisherman alone as long as we were doing things on a safe manner. I talked with one person down at the Marine Safety Office and they were going to get back to me tomorrow. There has always been a law written in but has not been enforced for many years. How does this seem to come up every year just as the open water season gets under way? I recieved a phone call from someone today that refrained from telling me who he was or where he got my name. He was inquiring about my guide service and out of the blue asked about a captains license. NEVER EVER has anyone asked this before to me or any of the other guides that I know of. As I proceeded to ask some questions, and tell him what I knew, I got the hint that the phone call was more of a threat than anything and the guy just wanted to start some comotion amongst local guides. There has never been a problem until now, why all of a sudden. Also, if they are going to enforce this they should have given us a warning rather than just shutting a bunch of people down on the spot. For some of us this is our main source of income. If we all of a sudden need to take a test that costs a couple thousand dollars what are we going to do? It takes a week, costs about 1500, and not only that the classes are done until next spring. The only other class that is being held is down in Florida. I will find out more tonight and see if I can get a statement from the Coast Guard.
Troy |
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| The bottom line is The Fox river to Winnebago, Lake Winnebago, Butte des Morts, Winneconne, Lake Poygan, the Fox River to Princeton and the Wolf up to and including Shawano are considered federal waters, Western Rivers. It doesn't matter that the lock is closed. To get it changed would take a act of congress. The Wisconsin River to the head waters were considered federal untill an act of congress got that changed and now ends at the du Sac at the dam. Here is the way it is if you are for hire out of a vessel on these waters, you have to have an OUPV. If you don't and have an accident you will not be covered by your insurance because you are unlawful. No insurance covers you when you an not legal, and the insurance companies hate to pay. So now you are liable for all damages. They have not inforced in the past except fpr the Pioneer Princeds and Fin and Feather, they have been inspected every year. But, since 9-11 the USCG has been much more active. There is a very few that have licences when the Coast Guard did a bit of a sting operation about ten years ago. It is up to you if you want to take the chance. They will take your boat in liu of the fine. The test is hard, very hard. The chance of passing without going through the course is about zero. If enough people talk to the USCG they may be willing to do something called a limited scope license to cover a very specific course. I have talk to the Sturgeon Bay office about it and they are working on it. Nothing that the USCG does is fast, so nothing is going to happen in the very near future, especially if nobody is pushing for it. |
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| I also made a few calls and spoke the Coast Guard, if you take the chance and decide to book trips and get caught they will not warn you. You will be citied, and there is a good possibility you will loose your guides licence. I've just recently canceled a few trips, it's not worth it! It's also a potential heft fine..11,000 bucks and loss of guides Lic, plus a bad reputation not for me!
Remeber you can still guide from shore or from the ice, not in a vessel/ boat if you do not have the Capatins Lic. I was told they will be working in conjunction with the DNR and the DNR will also be checking???
I'm going to take the corse in milwaukee at the end of the month!
It's not worth it to me!!!! |
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| I know of at least two charter captain types, they guide on Bago as well as Green Bay and the Fox River in Green bay and Bay de Noc, that have been pushing this issue with the coast guard for years. It seems, one of them especially, has a real big problem with guides guiding on HIS waters without a charter captains license. He made a few statements at a sport show a year or so back that this was going to happen to us guides that were too cheap to get a charter captains license. Maybe it has something to do with this, maybe it doesnt, but it seems awfully funny dont it? |
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| I See a trap here, It must of been layed out a few years back but never set. So why did all you guides just let a trap sit there unset. Ever think that maybe someday the Government will set it???? You people..All people have to get wise here. This whole Government is dealing this way....Pass a law....let the anger settle down before they start to enforce it. (5-10 yrs.). Then they get whoever they want to pick out of the crowd. PEOPLE WAKE UP THIS GOVERNMENT ISN'T YOURS. |
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Location: Neenah, WI | I'm not a guide but I do have a question. How can the USCG enforce this when they have no presence on the Winnebago chain? Also, how can the WDNR, a state agency, enforce a federal law when the state has a different (and more lenient) law? I remember back a few years ago about the federal boat registration stickers that were to be required. It was ruled that if we couldn't reach the Great Lakes by water we didn't need the stickers. The locks are still closed. There is also the question of "States Rights". The Feds and the States don't always cooperate with each other due to constitutional issues.
I sure hope this is resolved favorably for our guides on the system. It's a tough job to make a buck at and would also deprive visitors of fishing opportunities on our waters.
Dale Frank |
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Location: Kaukauna WI | After much thought last night and talking to my lady. We discussed the point of how this came to be and after reviewing some of the post here I believe the following is possible reason for this to come to light now.
1) For a long time I heard that Captains up on Bay of Green Bay and Bay De Noc have getting tired of losing business to guys who go up to Door county and for a day and take a charter for a low rate.
2) With increase of various boating accidents with guys & gals over last years a overall increase in licensing and training is starting to be enforced on all waters that Coast Guard is responsible for even if locks are filled in.
3) In this post 9/11 world and events now happening in Wisconsin (sporting, Festivals and Presidential & Congressional year elections) I think we see allot of Laws and politics put into action to say HEY WE ARE DOING OUR JOB in world of public opinion.
I for one am trying to arrange the class with my schedule for not that I wish to guide full time but wish to have better skills when traveling waters.
I personal not sure if I need a guide license for what I do. I take out sponsors and their customers as part of my programs. I have with each of them. I look at it as a point of being safe and just in case I do ever have a trip come up.
Michael Dutton
Edited by irishwebs 4/8/2004 9:02 AM
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Location: Waukesha Wisconsin | Dale,
Thanks for the voice of reason! Your concern is appreciated. There are many of us who will be hurt financially by this.
If it were true about some people with Captains licenses making a stink ( I still doubt this because it comes from someone unwilling to post their name) the whole situation will back fire on them.............trust me!!!!
I have always played by the rules and will continue to. I have never guided on the Fox, Green Bay or LBDN even though I'm asked by clients to do so every single year. Rest assured that those captains who charter these waters will have additional competition in the future if those of us guiding on Bago need a captains license. IT'll help pay the expences of taking the test.
Short sighted logic never prevails |
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| That's exactly what I was thinking Dennis, it will actually increase the competition for those guides, not decrease, so that whole argument does not make alot of sense to me. |
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